Getting the colour right advice?

Seajay

Seajay

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Cathy
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Hi everyone well I was at Turnberry beach at 7.30 am this morning to try again..lol :)!


Just not getting it at all really.I tried lots of different exposures . I was there just over three hours and loved being there that early but sadly I did not get one decent photo.
Some looked ok on live view but once on my mac and in lightroom they were awful. I am learning but hey! surely one!:help:

Now I am not looking for perfection just a little advice on where I went wrong today so that i can return and do it again. I have tried in Lightroom to fix some but my lovely early morning sky just fades away when I try to lighten the pictures.



rise5 by cooriedoon, on Flickr








rise8 by cooriedoon, on Flickr
 
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The issue you've got is the difference in brightness between the sky and the foreground. As you've underexposed to keep the highlights you can use the graduated filter in Lightroom to darken your skies back up. In time you'll want some ND grad filters to get it right in camera and save bringing in too much noise by bringing up shadows when you process them.
 
Can't add to what Mark has said. I had a quick go at your first shot with Photoscape.

Dave

 
Thank you Mark and Dave it did cross my mind I may need to do that even to get a polarising filter would be good too. I had the same problem when transferring all the shots into Lightroom they all get darker but on the camera they looked much better. I also noticed in others my focus was way off even when my metering was good. Guess it s just lots of practice and the help from the forum has been great!

Dave good job at least it looks so much better. One day I will get it!
 
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If you are really struggling with this type of problem instead of scrapping the photo try making it into a B/W instead.



Just a very quick example, didn't spend any time fine tuning it
 
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The black and white is a great idea thank you very much but I really need to get it right when taking the shot in the first place.
I was using my meter but I may not have been setting the camera in the right place to get the focus right.
The one thing I do get is the light it was so nice to be out for the sun coming up maybe I will try again during a sunset!:)
 
Just to add a couple of other things you may want to think about that make the camera display potentially fool you........

Chances are you can set the display brightness - this is good for making it visible in bright light but if you have it set too dark or light then this won't be a true reflection of how bright the picture is. Generally just looking at the camera LCD isn't a reliable way to assess the brightness of the actual picture - read up on the histogram and "blinkies" features of your camera - far more reliable.

Also - if you're shooting RAW - you may have a picture style set on your camera - for example "Landscape" - this will give more saturated blues and greens. Canon's software, JPEG images and, most importantly, the LCD display on your camera will apply the picture style to what you're seeing. Lightroom ignores this. So a RAW file that appeared to have good colours on the camera LCD could look dull in Lightroom - you'll need to do a bit of playing with the image to bring it back to how it appeared on the LCD.
 
Ah! Well that may explain why they look good while checking them. I tried to stay on AP but also tried manual and shutter speed priority did do a few auto to see what it read and then tried the settings on manual. When they looked ok on the camera I presumed they were ok. Gosh so much to learn but it is fun. I got a nice voucher to attend a work shop in Glasgow so that will help too. Thank you for taking the time to help. If dry tomorrow I will go and have another go.

Just had a thought once I had set up what I thought was ok for focus I used my remote trigger for most of the shots .
My lens did move around a few times would this have been why they are all out of focus? Or is it just my bad camera management. I think if I had set it right the lens would have just stayed put and taken the shot. I am not confident yet to just keep it on manual.

Cathy
 
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Seajay said:
but I really need to get it right when taking the shot in the first place.
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That can be tough. If the sky is much brighter than the ground then to get gound exposed correctly you need to over expose th sky and vice versa. You can use a Neutral density Graduated Filter over the lens butin the one you posted with an outcrop of land, tht would be under exposed as you try to darken just the sky area.

You have three choices.

1. Shoot with a filter
2. Shoot a bracketed shot and merge in Photoshop (probably the best option). That way you get a shot exposed for the sky (making it as dark as you want it to be), get one with the standard middle exposure (on ethe camera theinks is right) and the last you get the ground well exposed (perhaps even a tad brighter)

That way when you merge you will have all the detail retained in the image - The camera's sensor may not have enough dynamic rangfe to do what you want.

Seajay said:
I was using my meter but I may not have been setting the camera in the right place to get the focus right.
The one thing I do get is the light it was so nice to be out for the sun coming up maybe I will try again during a sunset!:)
Click to expand...

You need to point the camera to the light (the sky) to get the exposure fr the sky and then point the meter at the ground to get a reflected reading
of the ground. Shot a few frames on a tripod at under through and over those exposure readings).

This sould help you get the ideal shot.
 
Seajay said:
Just had a thought once I had set up what I thought was ok for focus I used my remote trigger for most of the shots .
My lens did move around a few times would this have been why they are all out of focus? Or is it just my bad camera management. I think if I had set it right the lens would have just stayed put and taken the shot. I am not confident yet to just keep it on manual.

Cathy
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You need to set the lens to Manual - by using the remote, it work the same way as half pressing the shutter and will try and refocus each tim you take a shot.

If the lens is switched to manual it will not and set the focus once and it will remain consistent
 
EOS_JD said:
You need to set the lens to Manual - by using the remote, it work the same way as half pressing the shutter and will try and refocus each tim you take a shot.

If the lens is switched to manual it will not and set the focus once and it will remain consistent
Click to expand...

Or easier still - use back button focus and always be in control of when your camera is focussing.
 
As EOS_JD said, you need to be in Manual focus. Until you master manual focussing, use auto-focus first then carefully switch the lens to manual focus so it isn't re-focused when you use the remote release. Good luck.
 
Thank you to everyone I understand a little more now.

In my head I was using the remote so that I would not get camera shake.LOL! I t was only when I saw they were so bad on my mac that I had to think hard about why! Then the penny dropped about the focus and using the remote on auto.

It is weird coming home with nothing after years of being on auto but I am not giving in I am going to master this!

Well with a lot of help from this wonderful forum and the members.

So question is what would be a good starter filter that does not cost too much for learning do I only require a Neutral density Graduated Filter for now or do i need a few.

I think I am going to have to go manual for a while until I learn, I thought I would only need to turn the lens until I saw what I felt was in focus but on this canon 500D it looks like I have to use the magnify buttons to zoom in to expose then come back to normal again,well at least that is what I read in my manual but I will go and read it all again and try it out one day soon when we have no rain!!

I am sure you think I am a bit of a pest with so many questions and I do apologise
It is only because I want to learn.
Cathy
 
I don't know how better to but this:
PLEASE ignore anyone telling you to use Manual Focus on a modern DSLR.

It's an exercise in futility. The camera wasn't designed to use MF, there's nowhere near enough help to ensure you can do it properly.
 
Phil it does look like a lot of things to do to use manual it would be better if you could just turn the lens until the scene looks in focus I don't quite get why I need to zoom in to a part of the image and zoom out. I should maybe think of selling my 550d and look for an older full frame to learn from.

Chris thank you I am sure you are so right but where would i have focused, on the lighthouse or the sky or the sea or land? I was trying to use the third of the way in way but as you can see because of me stupidly using the remote I got it wrong.I took over 200 photos and not one was good..but that is the way it goes when learning.I will be going back as i am determined to get a decent shot of this area, and not on auto!
 
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Phil V said:
Or easier still - use back button focus and always be in control of when your camera is focussing.
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Phil, yes you can use that too (thats how I use my camera)
 
Phil V said:
I don't know how better to but this:
PLEASE ignore anyone telling you to use Manual Focus on a modern DSLR.

It's an exercise in futility. The camera wasn't designed to use MF, there's nowhere near enough help to ensure you can do it properly.
Click to expand...

Know wgat I agree - dont know why I said that. Using AF and locking it or as you say back button is the best way.
 
Seajay said:
Phil it does look like a lot of things to do to use manual it would be better if you could just turn the lens until the scene looks in focus I don't quite get why I need to zoom in to a part of the image and zoom out. I should maybe think of selling my 550d and look for an older full frame to learn from.
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No that wont help at all.
 
I was talking purely about the lens not the cameta akthough that should be in manual. Your camera will do M just the same.

Read the manual about focus lock
 
Ok will go and check it out!

Had a look and remembered Steve sent me a link to this last time. So will watch it again and take note to give this a try.
 
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Another Day another go!! at Doonfoot beach and Greenan castle.

Well I am going to have to resort to getting some filters as once again I lost all the sky.
This landscape photography is not easy!! lol! but one thing is I am learning every day so that has to be my reward for now.Good shots will come!






Greenan castle by cooriedoon, on Flickr
 
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Hi, set your camera exactly the way you have been doing but focus the camera using autofocus while you are holding it. Once focused, carefully switch the LENS to M (manual) and put it on your tripod. You can then use the remote to trigger the camera and adjust the exposure as many times as you like without refocusing (provided the lens is not touched at all).
The method of zooming in using LiveView is NOT done with the lens - switch to LiveView and use the Zoom (the + Button on my 5D2) button to zoom in and then use the focusing ring on the lens (still in Manual mode) to ficus the lens. Switch off LiveView and take your picture. Hope that helps & good luck.
 
Thank you ! I appreciate the time you all take to help

I have a notebook now with all the hints and tips from this thread. Tomorrow if it stays dry I will be out again and will follow the advice given. One day soon I will get a good shot! I just so wish I had someone else with me who knew a more than I do. I think it would be easer to be shown. However I am determined . Did take a few on auto and they were so much better but I delete them after looking as it s no way to learn.

Well! Just had a brainwave! I have added the app to my phone and can take all this info with me! So no need to keep writing in my book:)
 
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Seajay said:
Another Day another go!! at Doonfoot beach and Greenan castle.

Well I am going to have to resort to getting some filters as once again I lost all the sky.
This landscape photography is not easy!! lol! but one thing is I am learning every day so that has to be my reward for now.Good shots will come!


Greenan castle by cooriedoon, on Flickr
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Your problem with Dynamic range is much more important than your focus issue (focussing issues are just technique).

You'll never capture this the way you want in the manner you're trying. At the brightest part of the day, the sky will blow when the foreground is correctly exposed, or you can expose for the sky and have the foreground underexposed.

The options are; combine exposures in post processing - don't think of this as cheating, it was done in the darkroom by all the oldschool landscape photographers.

Shoot it at better times of day, when the difference between the sky and land are less, notably the hour before sunset and the hour after sunrise. You'll find that the light colour is more interesting at these times too.

Before you go out to do the above; Find 5 great landscape photo's on FlickR. Think about the quality of the light in them. Do you think the photographer rocked up somewhere interesting at mid-day to take those photo's? You've just realised lesson no.1 It's all about the light.

caveat - I am not a landscape photographer, but I do own a rucksack and some waterproof trousers.
 
Phil yes you are right about the best times to shoot. These were taken roughly about an hour before sunset. I was just leaving as the sun started to go down as I was babysitting.
Just wanted to try and get in anther practice using sea sky and land and to grips with exposure etc

I will be back out at sunrise one day later in the week to do the Turnberry ones again so that might be better. Still think it may help if I get a ND filter too any suggestions on which one to begin with?


My reason for wanting to master this is because I am going with some friends geocaching around about Loch Ard and there are some amazing shots to be had if I can improve before I go.
 
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Not an ND filter - that will affect the exposure of the WHOLE scene ( so you will still have the dynamic range issue). You need a Graduated filter and you move the filter into the correct position according to where the sky is in the frame.

The ND Grad can be at varying degrees of darkness and using the right one(s) will depend on the difference in exposure between the sky and the ground.

Shooting three to five frames at different shutter speeds from a stop or two under exposed to a stop or two over exposed will allow you to merge in Photoshop and give you the dynamic range you need.

The issue here is that you are not understanding how the camera is exposing the scene. As Phil says that is a bigger issue than focusing
 
Ok so if I am getting this right once I set up my shot and take a few different exposures from sky and land and shoot through them Do you mean that i need to make a few layers of the images in photoshop and then sort of rub out the layer with the sky that is poor exposing the sky below that is good and then merge my layers. If this is the procedure I can do that .

Have also taken note I need a graduated filter. Which would be a good starter and I will order it today?
 
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Ok been back out this morning,to be honest way to early should have checked when sunrise was and had a longer lie in. :)

Now I have some shots that have the sky I want and castle way too dark and some with the castle just right and a blown sky.

No idea how they will look when I get them into Lightroom but I will have a play later today in photoshop and see what I can get.
 
As stated already, the light makes all the difference* as I found out when I first got my camera. This was taken a few days apart.
6209_226913495273_6574294_n.jpg

*and changing composition.
 
I'm a bit late to this thread, but I never use any Grad filters or Polarisers

I don't understand why anyone would want to unless they are shooting a perfectly horizontal seascape. If there is anything jutting up, as per your castle thing, then you are trying to correctly expose your sky and foreground, but then underexposing the main subject of the castle and having to dodge it back (potentially making it noisy); just seems daft to me

As Phil said, shooting at a time when the dynamic range is within what your camera can record is the easiest way; second is exposure blending when you use a layer mask to rub out the over/underexposed bits (layer masks are better than the eraser tool as if you get a bit wrong you can put it back in)

The grad tool in LR is FAB and so what if you get a slightly noisy sky, you may be surprised at how little noise shows up in a print compared to onscreen. A common beauty/portrait trick is to add noise to smoothen out backgrounds and even skies !!!

I usually go with my blinkies for the sky's exposure and let the land take care of itself to an extent, bringing out detail in the sandy/rocks on a shoreline may create a smidge more noise but isn't sand 'noise' anyway :D

I'd certainly suggest you spent more time on your PP and LR than on filters until such time as you are positive shooting better and PP isn't the answer, but for me, filters are a waste of time, effort and money

Happy shooting :)

Dave
 
OMG! That is awesome! And I have deleted the whole shoot from that day must check my bin now!

Really I love this can I save a copy! I would love to know what you did if not too long . Gosh! Can you tell I am impressed now I need to buckle down get better shots and learn Lightroom . Many thanks Dave.

A quick question I did have a go one time using the filter in Lightroom for the sky but as I pulled it down over the castle ruin it also changed the castle how do you select only the sky when you have something in front like the castle or lighthouse? I would use ayers in photoshop but only just starting in Lightroom

John I see what you mean a huge difference in the second so much better. I just need practice and an understanding about exposure it will come :)
 
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Of course you can save a copy, its your image :)

I did this in Photoshop, but I have a useful plugin called Topaz Adjust 5 which sort of create (amongst its 100 presets!!!) one which add localised contrast, similar to processing as a HDR image only more subtle

I warmed it up with the colour balance - just adding a bit more red & yellow

Then I ran over the darker bits with the burn tool set to shadows about 10% - it darkens the darker bits adding contrast; the same with burn set to midtone for the sky; I then did the same with the dodge tool on the highlights to add contrast in the water (set to 5% as it gets extreme quickly thereafter)

Most of which can be done to a similar effect using the sliders in Lightroom

The Grad filter in LR gives the same problem as a grad filter on the lens in that working on the sky would darken the lighthouse too; so I'd just process the image as one for the ground and one for the sky - then blend using the layer masks

I hope you can find the original now :LOL:

Nice composition, good use of thirds, good foreground use, and a good choice of shutter speed make this a defo keeper for me - processed nicely ;)

Dave
 
Well looks like I deleted the original may have a jpg but need to look.
Thank you so much it is nice to see that even some bad photos can be saved.

I had a little go in Lightroom but then moved to photoshop I have lots to learn still but i will practice.


Blend Tester by cooriedoon, on Flickr
 
I don't think it was a bad photo Cathy - that's my point - the image itself wasn't bad at all as a raw shot, WB was off and slightly underexposed, but nice in other ways; it would have been a different problem if shot as a jpeg

Keep shooting like that and just learn some PP and you'll be much happier - buying filters won't help, nor will using a polariser with a wideangle lens or when not 90 degrees to the Sun, so don't buy them :)

I had to look up where Ayr is btw - lovely area - I'm dead jealous :(

Dave
 
AWh! Thank you i I appreciate all the advice I receive. I will be doing the Turnberry shoot again so it s not so bad and hopefully even better next time around. This mornings were better not great but at east I managed to take different exposures and finally get what I was supposed to be doing all be it not that well yet but I will soon.

Ayr is a lovely area with lots to photograph in all these years of going to all these beautiful paces I only ever captured my family and dogs never the beautiful surroundings.
My next place to take is Culzean Castle that should be interesting. These places of interest are all within 20 mns for me to et to so i am lucky.i am sure you have many beautiful places around you too
Many thank Dave and everyone else who helped
 
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