High Speed Sync Problems

[danny_bhoy]

Hi all,

Decided to have a practice using HSS off camera this afternoon. I've got a pair of Yongnuo YN622C's and a YN622C-TX transceiver firing a pair of YN568EX flashes.

Set them all (transceiver & flashes) to HSS, camera in manual, dialled in about 1/1000th to start off with but the camera keeps reverting to the max sync speed of 1/200th.

I'm probably missing something massively obvious but any help would be amazing before I try and grapple with the infamous Yongnuo instructions

Cheers.

 

[Phil V]

Off the top of my head: are you sure you've set HSS on the TX properly? You set the group to ETTL and there's a setting on the menu.

I don't have them to hand though.

Don't you have a copy of the latest TOYUG? It's easy to read compared to the factory instructions.

 

[danny_bhoy]

Off the top of my head: are you sure you've set HSS on the TX properly? You set the group to ETTL and there's a setting on the menu.

I don't have them to hand though.

Don't you have a copy of the latest TOYUG? It's easy to read compared to the factory instructions.

Yeah, I made sure the little HSS symbol was showing on the transceiver and both flashes. I had them all set to manual, I didn't even consider trying ETTL.

TOYUG? I'm not familiar with that one Phil

 

[Phil V]

Yeah, I made sure the little HSS symbol was showing on the transceiver and both flashes. I had them all set to manual, I didn't even consider trying ETTL.

TOYUG? I'm not familiar with that one Phil

Manual?

On the transmitter you have to set them on HS (OTTOMH) HSS is for ETTL.

It's the terminology that trips people up. HSS is an ETTL function where there's an early fire signal and the flash pulses throughout the exposure.

You're mixing technologies.

TOYUG is The Other Yongnuo User Guide.

It's brilliant, you'll find it as a PDFs download.

 

[J Veitch]

This one Phil? http://www.westonphoto.plus.com/tutorials/TOYUG_v4-07.pdf

 

[Phil V]

This one Phil? http://www.westonphoto.plus.com/tutorials/TOYUG_v4-07.pdf

Yes
Clive is a member here, but I can't remember his username.

 

[danny_bhoy]

Manual?

On the transmitter you have to set them on HS (OTTOMH) HSS is for ETTL.

It's the terminology that trips people up. HSS is an ETTL function where there's an early fire signal and the flash pulses throughout the exposure.

You're mixing technologies.

TOYUG is The Other Yongnuo User Guide.

It's brilliant, you'll find it as a PDFs download.

Ok, thanks Phil, I think I've just about got my head around the above.

So, after having a skim though the PDF guide it seems that the TX doesn't allow for speeds above 250th of a second.....which (if I'm understanding it correctly) is a bit of a bummer and means I'll have to re-think that model shoot I've got planned for the weekend.

Here's the excerpt from the guide:

"The C-TX can be used as a sync-only radio trigger. The settings for a Manual output level are made on flash. The highest-speed shutter sync is 1/250s or lower, depending on the camera.
• The C-TX can be mounted on a single-contact hot-shoe camera
• The C-TX can be mounted on a multi-contact hotshoe camera, using a multi-pin to singlepin adapter.
• The C-TX can be connected to a camera’s PC-sync-out port using an appropriate cable.
• The highest sync speed is 1/250S or less; HSS is not available.
• Configure Groups and Output levels in Manual mode to create desired lighting"

 

[ChrisHeathcote]

Are you using both flashguns for the shoot? If not you could use one of the transceivers as the transmitter and use the cameras flash menu to alter settings.

 

[SeedyBee]

Which camera body? The camera controls the generation of HSS signals, not the triggers or how any remote devices are set.

The quote you have is for non-Canon environments, where you are working on the fringes of design for the product.

The YN622C-TX has no problem handling HSS, providing... What are the Canon camera menus showing? What are the HSS rules for your camera?

That version of the guide is outdated - the current version is TOYUG II, v5.01, at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B77OmmGIg0gMMzZFaDVlZ1VNTE0/view?usp=sharing

 

[danny_bhoy]

Are you using both flashguns for the shoot? If not you could use one of the transceivers as the transmitter and use the cameras flash menu to alter settings.

Yeah Chris I was going to use one as key and one a kicker/rim. The dream was to use the TX on camera and the two transceivers off camera

 

[danny_bhoy]

Which camera body? The camera controls the generation of HSS signals, not the triggers or how any remote devices are set.

The quote you have is for non-Canon environments, where you are working on the fringes of design for the product.

The YN622C-TX has no problem handling HSS, providing... What are the Canon camera menus showing? What are the HSS rules for your camera?

That version of the guide is outdated - the current version is TOYUG II, v5.01, at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B77OmmGIg0gMMzZFaDVlZ1VNTE0/view?usp=sharing

Thanks for the info - I had no idea it was body dependant. I'm using a 5DMK2.

When I try to access the flash menu from on the camera when using the TX it says it's not available.

 

[SeedyBee]

This phrase "dialled in about 1/1000th to start off with but the camera keeps reverting to the max sync speed of 1/200th." shows that the camera thinks that it's HSS requirements are not being met. That could be due to something as simple as dirt/incomplete insertion of foot/poor clamping preventing the camera from identifying the camera from identifying the mounted object as HSS-capable.

Added: sometimes a new user points the 622C-TX backwards!

 

[SeedyBee]

Thanks for the info - I had no idea it was body dependent. I'm using a 5DMK2. When I try to access the flash menu from on the camera when using the TX it says it's not available.

So the 622C-TX is not mounted correctly. At least it is a simple, cheap fix.

 

[mike weeks]

Hi all,

Decided to have a practice using HSS off camera this afternoon. I've got a pair of Yongnuo YN622C's and a YN622C-TX transceiver firing a pair of YN568EX flashes.

Set them all (transceiver & flashes) to HSS, camera in manual, dialled in about 1/1000th to start off with but the camera keeps reverting to the max sync speed of 1/200th.

I'm probably missing something massively obvious but any help would be amazing before I try and grapple with the infamous Yongnuo instructions

Cheers.

On Nikon this would be because you have not set the Auto FP speed i.e. where HSS kicks in, secondly I think you have to have a lead attached with those Canon jobs?

Mike

 

[SeedyBee]

On Nikon this would be because you have not set the Auto FP speed i.e. where HSS kicks in, secondly I think you have to have a lead attached with those Canon jobs?

With Canon, HSS sync cannot be set if the camera thinks it does not have an HSS-capable device mounted in its hot-shoe. The data stream involved passes through the pin 4 of the Canon hot-shoe. Which is why a PC-Sync cable will not work - that conveys only the sync/Fire! signal.

 

[Phil V]

Don't use the camera menu. That's the whole point of the TX unit. It's easier to use than the camera menu.

I've just checked, and I can get any shutter speed on camera with the TX unit mounted and in HSS mode.

 

[Phil V]

Ok, thanks Phil, I think I've just about got my head around the above.

So, after having a skim though the PDF guide it seems that the TX doesn't allow for speeds above 250th of a second.....which (if I'm understanding it correctly) is a bit of a bummer and means I'll have to re-think that model shoot I've got planned for the weekend.

Here's the excerpt from the guide:

"The C-TX can be used as a sync-only radio trigger. The settings for a Manual output level are made on flash. The highest-speed shutter sync is 1/250s or lower, depending on the camera.
• The C-TX can be mounted on a single-contact hot-shoe camera
• The C-TX can be mounted on a multi-contact hotshoe camera, using a multi-pin to singlepin adapter.
• The C-TX can be connected to a camera’s PC-sync-out port using an appropriate cable.
• The highest sync speed is 1/250S or less; HSS is not available.
• Configure Groups and Output levels in Manual mode to create desired lighting"

As you can see from Clive's post, HSS is definitely available, I don't know where you found that in the guide but it's counter to both my belief and Clive's (in case you hadn't guessed @SeedyBee is the author of TOYUG)

 

[danny_bhoy]

So the 622C-TX is not mounted correctly. At least it is a simple, cheap fix.

On Nikon this would be because you have not set the Auto FP speed i.e. where HSS kicks in, secondly I think you have to have a lead attached with those Canon jobs?

Mike

With Canon, HSS sync cannot be set if the camera thinks it does not have an HSS-capable device mounted in its hot-shoe. The data stream involved passes through the pin 4 of the Canon hot-shoe. Which is why a PC-Sync cable will not work - that conveys only the sync/Fire! signal.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Cleaned contacts on body and TX, made sure it's properly mounted and still no joy.

If it's helps I can dial in any shutter speed I like then when I half press the shutter button it reverts to 1/200. If I change modes (say from M to AV) and back again I can then crank the shutter speed right up but reverts back upon a half press of the shutter button.

When I try to access the flash menu in camera it spouts something about the flash not being compatible.

Aaaarrrggh.

 

[Phil V]

Yeah Chris I was going to use one as key and one a kicker/rim. The dream was to use the TX on camera and the two transceivers off camera

Why HSS?

 

[Phil V]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Cleaned contacts on body and TX, made sure it's properly mounted and still no joy.

If it's helps I can dial in any shutter speed I like then when I half press the shutter button it reverts to 1/200. If I change modes (say from M to AV) and back again I can then crank the shutter speed right up but reverts back upon a half press of the shutter button.

When I try to access the flash menu in camera it spouts something about the flash not being compatible.

Aaaarrrggh.

Still the question, why the camera menu? Everything is easier to control from the TX. But as per Clive's post, if the camera doesn't think there's an ETTL flash mounted, you've got an issue.

 

[danny_bhoy]

Don't use the camera menu. That's the whole point of the TX unit. It's easier to use than the camera menu.

I've just checked, and I can get any shutter speed on camera with the TX unit mounted and in HSS mode.

As you can see from Clive's post, HSS is definitely available, I don't know where you found that in the guide but it's counter to both my belief and Clive's (in case you hadn't guessed @SeedyBee is the author of TOYUG)

Yeah I'd prefer to use the TX Phil, as you say, it's much easier. Just trying to access via the camera menu as it was suggested somewhere in a post above.

I'm at a bit of a loss. Surely if I have the camera in manual, flashes set to manual (rather than ETTL) then I should be able to shoot at any shutter speed.

 

[danny_bhoy]

Why HSS?

As an OCF novice the idea was to crank up the shutter speed to kill a lot of the harsh ambient and use the OCF as the main source of light. This, of course, could be the complete arse first way of doing it.

 

[Phil V]

Yeah I'd prefer to use the TX Phil, as you say, it's much easier. Just trying to access via the camera menu as it was suggested somewhere in a post above.

I'm at a bit of a loss. Surely if I have the camera in manual, flashes set to manual (rather than ETTL) then I should be able to shoot at any shutter speed.

Actually that's counterproductive, Manual flashguns can't recognise HSS they can only recognise the early fire signal.

What happens if the flashgun is in ETTL and then you use the TX to change it to manual?

I'm off to do exactly what you're trying.

 

[danny_bhoy]

Actually that's counterproductive, Manual flashguns can't recognise HSS they can only recognise the early fire signal.

What happens if the flashgun is in ETTL and then you use the TX to change it to manual?

I'm off to do exactly what you're trying.

Tried changing to M using the TX and same thing happens.

Here's what I'm looking at:

 

[Phil V]

So the 622C-TX is not mounted correctly. At least it is a simple, cheap fix.

Well, no one should be surprised that Clive is correct, but the only way I could replicate your problem @danny_bhoy was to mis-mount the TX unit on purpose.

 

[mike weeks]

put your speedlights (flashguns) in TTL mode (TTL so that triggers can talk to flashgun) your TX can then manually control them - in current mode they are not talking back to the camera and hence why camera goes to 1/200

Mike

 

[danny_bhoy]

Well, no one should be surprised that Clive is correct, but the only way I could replicate your problem @danny_bhoy was to mis-mount the TX unit on purpose.

Damn. Its definitely wedged in there and all the contact are clean.

 

[Phil V]

As an OCF novice the idea was to crank up the shutter speed to kill a lot of the harsh ambient and use the OCF as the main source of light. This, of course, could be the complete arse first way of doing it.

It all depends how much ambient you're trying to kill, a couple of speedlights might be ok indoors or at dusk, but midday even in February they'll struggle.

For overpowering the sun you'll need to invest in something with more oomph (shorthand quote is 600Ws)

 

[Phil V]

Damn. Its definitely wedged in there and all the contact are clean.

I could get the flash menu up on the camera fine until I pulled the TX out a couple of mm. So I'm guessing a faulty unit @SeedyBee might know which contact is failing to communicate its presence.

 

[danny_bhoy]

put your speedlights (flashguns) in TTL mode (TTL so that triggers can talk to flashgun) your TX can then manually control them - in current mode they are not talking back to the camera and hence why camera goes to 1/200

Mike

Thanks Mike. Just tried that but if the flashes are in TTL mode then obviously they're not going to allow me to change the power output as they would in manual mode.

 

[danny_bhoy]

I could get the flash menu up on the camera fine until I pulled the TX out a couple of mm. So I'm guessing a faulty unit @SeedyBee might know which contact is failing to communicate its presence.

Just tried it on a second 5DMK2 and same thing. Hope
@SandyBee can shed some light or I'll be in the market for another TX.

 

[mike weeks]

Thanks Mike. Just tried that but if the flashes are in TTL mode then obviously they're not going to allow me to change the power output as they would in manual mode.

That is exactly where you are wrong because the manual power control is from the TX - manual on the flash means it has to be controlled from the flash but you want to control it from the transmitter, very common first test mistake

Mike

 

[danny_bhoy]

In a last act of desperation I've just held down the two buttons marked 'clear' on the TX and it seems to have reset itself. It now lets me go as high as I like with the shutter.

Thank for all your help everyone who's commented. You're all aces.

And @Phil V I'll definitely look at investing in something with a bit more thwack for daytime stuff.

 

[danny_bhoy]

That is exactly where you are wrong because the manual power control is from the TX - manual on the flash means it has to be controlled from the flash but you want to control it from the transmitter, very common first test mistake

Mike

I flunked that test miserably

Sorted now though Mike but I'll keep all of the above in mind for future use.

 

[Phil V]

That is exactly where you are wrong because the manual power control is from the TX - manual on the flash means it has to be controlled from the flash but you want to control it from the transmitter, very common first test mistake

Mike

Mike the YN568's will take the signal when in M mode, it's only the early flashes that don't.

@danny_bhoy
You can change the power settings in ETTL mode from the TX, simply with FEC, but at high shutter speeds you'll probably need full power anyway.

 

[mike weeks]

Mike the YN568's will take the signal when in M mode, it's only the early flashes that don't.

@danny_bhoy
You can change the power settings in ETTL mode from the TX, simply with FEC, but at high shutter speeds you'll probably need full power anyway.

It is not the taking of the signal but remote manual control, why would you not want that?

Mike

 

[Phil V]

In a last act of desperation I've just held down the two buttons marked 'clear' on the TX and it seems to have reset itself. It now lets me go as high as I like with the shutter.

Thank for all your help everyone who's commented. You're all aces.

And @Phil V I'll definitely look at investing in something with a bit more thwack for daytime stuff.

Glad you've got it sorted.

If I was buying now, I'd be looking at the Godox AD600 ETTL, HSS, Bowens mount, remote settings, what's not to love?

 

[SeedyBee]

Don't use the camera menu. That's the whole point of the TX unit. It's easier to use than the camera menu.

Agreed - but as a diagnostic step it revealed definitively that the camera was not recognising the C-TX. (And checking what is displayed can reveal other mis-settings.)

 

[danny_bhoy]

Mike the YN568's will take the signal when in M mode, it's only the early flashes that don't.

@danny_bhoy
You can change the power settings in ETTL mode from the TX, simply with FEC, but at high shutter speeds you'll probably need full power anyway.

Yeah I had a dabble with FEC when I was having a play in ETTL earlier. Worked well but seems more fiddly and a bit less clear cut than adjusting power in manual..... for an OCF novice anyway.

 

[danny_bhoy]

Glad you've got it sorted.

If I was buying now, I'd be looking at the Godox AD600 ETTL, HSS, Bowens mount, remote settings, what's not to love?

I've made a note of the Godox - thanks Phil