Ash, sorry mate, don't mean to get into a big debate on the morals of individuals. I am interested, however, in the factors that are driving the meltdown of parts of our retail sector. Whilst Jessops had many factors contributing to its demise, the remaining photographic retail sector still has to compete with suppliers whose model is built on tax evasion. It's worse than the antics of those recently caught up in the corporation tax avoidance scandal. Don't agree with what the likes of Amazon, Starbucks etc do, but at least they kept within the law.
and please use their services
Jessops on the verge of administration
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Now that would be hypocritical if I didn't pay the relevant taxes. Of course I do.
China in itself is fast changing. In the 15 years that I have been working with various Chinese factories, I've seen massive change in employment conditions. Still not where we are, but moving closer.
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Not sure if its been mentioned but I'm from York and the store there moved 2/3 months ago to a large premises on the main shipping street. Must have cost them an absolute fortune to do the store out and has a printing lab etc, must have taken on a good number of staff too.
The small dealer camera mart must be happy with the news in the city centre but their prices mean they can't be long, think its their second hand dealings that keep them afloat.
The small dealer camera mart must be happy with the news in the city centre but their prices mean they can't be long, think its their second hand dealings that keep them afloat.
Exactly.....only a matter of time before they have a huge revolt (not necessarily a bloody one) about how they are being underpaid/and have poor work conditions considering how they are keeping the world afloat with manufacturing.
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Tom, I can't show what doesn't exist, this was a hypothetical discussion about a new tax to protect the high street retailers.
My single point was the fact it could not work, as we cannot tax imports from other EU countries. All the HK dealers (as well as the European retailers) would do would be to ship the items from a Euro base.
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That's correct and it's also capped to a max salary per week , can't remember how much tho. You can also claim separately for money in lieu of notice.
When I got made redundant 4 years ago the administrators went through all the paperwork and form filling with us and ensured we knew exactly what we could claim for and how to claim, I think that's a legal requirement tho
Dave...you are missing the point...if they did that they would have to pay import duty and import VAT which they re currently not doing because they are using us as mules..........
The whole of the Euro trade zone is having the same problem with the HK tax evaders.
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And when that happens, manufacturing will move to another part of the world. India for example.
Manufactures want to keep costs down, and they will have to do so in any way possible. Its economies of scale.
Garry Edwards
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Spot on. The improvements in just the last 3 years have been astounding. In cities, the people who have decent jobs have a much higher standard of living than people in comparable jobs in this country, even though they have to pay out a much larger % of their income for housing.
The rich are far richer than here, and the poor are becoming a bit less poor.
Jessops (and similar) have failed for a number of reasons, largely due to their debt burden, poor management and supply problems (caused by not paying their invoices anywhere near on time. It has nothing whatever to do with legitimate imports
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But the problem would still be there, if the UK government brought in some sort of additional tax (as was proposed by the earlier poster) on internet sales to protect the high street it would have no effect on the unscrupulous retailers who already import grey stock.
Even if we ended up with an Oz style Customs where almost every parcel incoming is checked they could just circumvent it by having a European posting point.
I'm not making judgement on how good or bad an Internet tax would be to the economy, just the fact it would be pretty unworkable.
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Speaking as someone who worked for a small independent Photographic retailer from 1994 until 2006, the seeds of todays closure go back to the early millennium. Back then they were a recognised and trusted brand with an extensive chain of stores across the country. But the management back then decided that wasn't enough - they wanted to be the ONLY UK photographic retailer.
Their train of thought was to spend and spend offering silly money to those independent stores that existed in the hope that they would sell up, get rebranded as Jessops and when they were ultimately the only ones left, they could fleece the customers with huge mark ups.
They bought the Radio Rentals chain of stores and whilst they did try and sell of some of them after doing so, they were left with plenty of towns where they couldn't sell the units/leases they'd taken on so were left with the only option of "sticking a minilab & some stock in " and opening two Jessops in towns where one could barely survive happily alongside any independents.
That's what happened in my town and it ultimately meant we were stuck in a 'pincer' with two Jessops either end of town and us in the middle trying to survive with them selling goods sometimes at a loss. In the end it became untenable and we closed our doors in July 2006. I know what their front line staff are feeling because we went almost as fast, we found out on the Tuesday we were closing our doors on the Saturday. It's a horrible feeling I can tell you.
So Jessops plan was working, they were getting bigger and bigger and they would soon be the only place to buy your photographic gear and the RRP's could come flooding back. But they didn't foresee the recession, the speed of digital camera adoption and more importantly the internet. They lost the 'safety net' of the markup that developing and printing brought you, people simply don't print anywhere near as many photos as they did with film cameras. You just bung 'em on Facebook for the family to see.
As they got bigger and bigger they paid the price in having to diffuse their experienced staff, the very ones that actually knew one end of a camera from another into more and more areas. As a result their reputation as offering trustworthy advice was becoming more and more tarnished. They ultimately attracted the same low opinion as the fellow box shifting stores, the DSG chain. They've only survived this long because of the amount of manufacturers that have been propping them up with cash and "free" stock, if Canon UK have been continuing to support them to the same degree they were back in 2004-6 then they will have lost MILLIONS with this collapse.
They wanted to be the only one so they could fleece the public. But the internet put paid to that happening. There is a market for high street photographic retail - if you know what you are talking about. A lot of people would pay a small premium over an internet price if they felt they were getting good, honest advice where they could handle the equipment before buying.
But by trying to be too big, too quickly Jessops ruined that reputation they had before the "market grab" their managers implemented back in the early millennium. Why feel loyalty to someone whose service was poor - just buy at the cheapest you can. That was the seed of todays closure, they can blame nobody but themselves.
The sad thing is, the very management that took that route have probably gotten out long ago with healthy pay offs and those that may have remained have almost certainly been making sure they won't be out of pocket as a result of this.
I can't help but feel a little smug satisfaction that it's happened because I knew it ultimately would and as it turned out I managed to find work with a much larger company in August 2006 and I'm still there. It's well away from retail and I wouldn't dream of going back to it but I do have sympathy with those front line folks who suddenly find themselves with a weekend off because it's going to be far harder for them to get back into the work.
Their train of thought was to spend and spend offering silly money to those independent stores that existed in the hope that they would sell up, get rebranded as Jessops and when they were ultimately the only ones left, they could fleece the customers with huge mark ups.
They bought the Radio Rentals chain of stores and whilst they did try and sell of some of them after doing so, they were left with plenty of towns where they couldn't sell the units/leases they'd taken on so were left with the only option of "sticking a minilab & some stock in " and opening two Jessops in towns where one could barely survive happily alongside any independents.
That's what happened in my town and it ultimately meant we were stuck in a 'pincer' with two Jessops either end of town and us in the middle trying to survive with them selling goods sometimes at a loss. In the end it became untenable and we closed our doors in July 2006. I know what their front line staff are feeling because we went almost as fast, we found out on the Tuesday we were closing our doors on the Saturday. It's a horrible feeling I can tell you.
So Jessops plan was working, they were getting bigger and bigger and they would soon be the only place to buy your photographic gear and the RRP's could come flooding back. But they didn't foresee the recession, the speed of digital camera adoption and more importantly the internet. They lost the 'safety net' of the markup that developing and printing brought you, people simply don't print anywhere near as many photos as they did with film cameras. You just bung 'em on Facebook for the family to see.
As they got bigger and bigger they paid the price in having to diffuse their experienced staff, the very ones that actually knew one end of a camera from another into more and more areas. As a result their reputation as offering trustworthy advice was becoming more and more tarnished. They ultimately attracted the same low opinion as the fellow box shifting stores, the DSG chain. They've only survived this long because of the amount of manufacturers that have been propping them up with cash and "free" stock, if Canon UK have been continuing to support them to the same degree they were back in 2004-6 then they will have lost MILLIONS with this collapse.
They wanted to be the only one so they could fleece the public. But the internet put paid to that happening. There is a market for high street photographic retail - if you know what you are talking about. A lot of people would pay a small premium over an internet price if they felt they were getting good, honest advice where they could handle the equipment before buying.
But by trying to be too big, too quickly Jessops ruined that reputation they had before the "market grab" their managers implemented back in the early millennium. Why feel loyalty to someone whose service was poor - just buy at the cheapest you can. That was the seed of todays closure, they can blame nobody but themselves.
The sad thing is, the very management that took that route have probably gotten out long ago with healthy pay offs and those that may have remained have almost certainly been making sure they won't be out of pocket as a result of this.
I can't help but feel a little smug satisfaction that it's happened because I knew it ultimately would and as it turned out I managed to find work with a much larger company in August 2006 and I'm still there. It's well away from retail and I wouldn't dream of going back to it but I do have sympathy with those front line folks who suddenly find themselves with a weekend off because it's going to be far harder for them to get back into the work.
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I completely agree with Rozzer above. Back when I was working for DSG, when Jessops were in trouble the first time, DSGs strategy was to undercut any deal given by Jessops. The advertising material came in with comparisons on it, like for like cameras, but DSG gave away accessory kits, batteries, cards basically anything to get people in.
They expanded without need, and unfortunately this has come at a price.
They expanded without need, and unfortunately this has come at a price.
It's called creating a lien.
When you hand something in for repair, a car, a camera or whatever else - you create a lien. You create a proprietery interest that lies in the hands of the repairer in this case.
It's not your property any longer - it belongs to the repairer.
Imagine that there was a break-in and the item was stolen - if the repairers stated that they were not going to reimburse you because it was your responsibility and not theirs then the story would be very different.
Don't buy anything from anyone who is likely to go into receivership unless you purchase using a credit card, visit the store in person, physically have the items with you at the point of sale, you are content that they are not going to need exchanging, and you are accompanied by a trained contract lawyer.
When you hand something in for repair, a car, a camera or whatever else - you create a lien. You create a proprietery interest that lies in the hands of the repairer in this case.
It's not your property any longer - it belongs to the repairer.
Imagine that there was a break-in and the item was stolen - if the repairers stated that they were not going to reimburse you because it was your responsibility and not theirs then the story would be very different.
Don't buy anything from anyone who is likely to go into receivership unless you purchase using a credit card, visit the store in person, physically have the items with you at the point of sale, you are content that they are not going to need exchanging, and you are accompanied by a trained contract lawyer.
Yves Geza
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If anyone is in this situation with Jessops, a repairer's lien is only for the cost of the repair. If the item has been repaired, the client must pay for the cost of that repair before the goods can be released from that lien and nobody, not the 'owner' nor any finance house nor even a policeman has any legal right to take the goods away from the repairer!
On the other hand, for a lien to exist there must be "betterment".
If no repairs have yet been done to the goods - and diagnosis or routine checks are not deemed to be a repair or betterment - then there is no lien to retain the goods!
Jon
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Sad news.
Bought two dslr's from Jessops as well as lots of other bits and bobs. Was treated very well by some great staff. However, that great knowledge base began to dwindle as staff left and were not replaced. You would pay a few extra quid for something as the advice was very good.
I know one of the chaps who works in the store. Really dedicated, he had become increasingly frustrated by the management and general running of the business. I think my local store had either 4 or 6 managers in the last year.
I feel very, very sorry for all those who have lost their jobs.
Bought two dslr's from Jessops as well as lots of other bits and bobs. Was treated very well by some great staff. However, that great knowledge base began to dwindle as staff left and were not replaced. You would pay a few extra quid for something as the advice was very good.
I know one of the chaps who works in the store. Really dedicated, he had become increasingly frustrated by the management and general running of the business. I think my local store had either 4 or 6 managers in the last year.
I feel very, very sorry for all those who have lost their jobs.
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PMK said:
I'd guess it will go the same ways as Jacobs last year, anything suppliers can or want to take back will go back to them to cover debts a lot will have been on SOR Agreements as it is, anything that does not go back will most likely be auctioned off and if anything like Jacobs go for stupid money
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indiabravo said:
In the 80a before they over expanded, they were pretty much the cheapest photo retailer around. People looked forward to Jessops opening a store in their town.
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It's a strange one, poor reputation for prices but as I've stated a few times in this thread, they frequently (and consistently) were very near the top of the list on camerapricebuster for a very wide range of DSLRs and CSCs.
I guess people didn't even look because they assumed they would be expensive, probably based on their appalling prices on memory cards and other accessories (but all high street retailers are guilty of this).
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This news had really made me feel for the Jessops staff who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, I've been in the same position myself.
The administrator should give you details & forms to fill in to claim your redundancy pay & any wages owned through the insolvency service.
http://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/Redundancy/procedures
Also, they may be entitled to a further payout as no redundancy consultation period was carried out.
http://www.pureemploymentlaw.co.uk/2010/10/26/collective-redundancies-and-protective-awards/
Good luck in the future to those who have lost their jobs, I hope that they manage to find alternative employment soon.
The administrator should give you details & forms to fill in to claim your redundancy pay & any wages owned through the insolvency service.
http://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/Redundancy/procedures
Also, they may be entitled to a further payout as no redundancy consultation period was carried out.
http://www.pureemploymentlaw.co.uk/2010/10/26/collective-redundancies-and-protective-awards/
Good luck in the future to those who have lost their jobs, I hope that they manage to find alternative employment soon.
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Garry Edwards said:
That only applies if the stock was supplied with "reservation of title"
Just had a call from Jessops to say they have found some of my old pictures. I can pop round today to collect or they will be binned. Poor guy sounded gutted. Had a quick chat with him and said how sad it was, he said they learnt it all from the tv. Poor guys.
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I bought my 450D from Jessops in Milton Keynes, and was very happy with the service, like many have said on here if quality of the staff differed from branch to branch. There were 2 in MK and the one in the main shopping centre had poorer quality staff then the other shop near the station. I do feel sorry for all those that have lost their job.
Unfortunately all that is left around here is now Currys/ PCW and John Lewis. The area could really do with a quality camera shop, I'm sure with decent trained staff they would survive. Hopefully one might open, but I'm not holding my breath.
Unfortunately all that is left around here is now Currys/ PCW and John Lewis. The area could really do with a quality camera shop, I'm sure with decent trained staff they would survive. Hopefully one might open, but I'm not holding my breath.
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yes another vote for the one out of centre. Great staff in that one. They did something which I really respect, the member of staff serving me realised they didn't know enough. They acknolwedged that and got another member of staff to serve me, whilst asking to listen in and participate. That is how it should be done, I fully understand you can't have everyone at the same level, but treat your customers with respect. That branch was very good. Staff also had their own photos on the walls which I think is a good sign as they like what they do.
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I bought my first DSLR from the Jessops by what was the Hockey stadium at the time, good service and it was £50 cheaper than John Lewis, Went back there a year later to buy a flashgun and the service and price was not good. The guy insisted that I couldn't get it cheaper online but I ended up getting it for £100 cheaper and that was for UK stock!
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hamster100 said:
Isn't calumet in MK?
I used the jessops in the shopping centre. They had the 50mm 1.8 on thier site for £89 so I reserved at that price and collected. I did notice instore the price was £99.
Service wasn't bad and price was good.
That's the only time I've ever shopped in there, it was down to impulse and a good price.
Feel sorry for the staff and the people who's cameras we're in for repair etc.
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Sorry, but what the hell has operating a private business got to do with the Government?
Why SHOULD a private business be propped up via some form of punitive tax just because of where they've chosen to set up shop?
Business works on the basis of supply and demand - if they can't manage to cater for either/both, then they need to rethink their approach, not rely on some artificial levelling mechanism.
STAFF EDIT : Comments removed. That was overstepping the mark and making it personal
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Well said - town parking is woefully inadequate, too expensive, and more hassle than it's worth.
Larger stores (amalgamated from surrounding town stores) in a retail park, would've made a lot more sense.
Why did they feel the need to be on the High Street?
Nostalgia or hoping and praying for passing trade?
Any time I went past my local one, there was hardly a sinner in it - on the odd occasion the number of staff working matched the number of "customers" on the premises. I don't recall ever seeing customers outnumbering the staff, and having to wait for one to become free.
And that's a large city centre store!
Says it all really.
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Slight difference - one is providing a public service (transport), the other is not providing a public service.
It failed to meet customers' needs/expectations, so they decided to treat themselves elsewhere.
i bought a few cameras recently for gifts etc always ordered online and collected at store shop staff in my town were hopeless but if the price was ok i didnt care i use here and the internet in general for help and advice
still have an independent camera shop near me but there prices are a joke never bought anything from them
still have an independent camera shop near me but there prices are a joke never bought anything from them
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As said much earlier shop rents can be a killer, our local camera shop chain in the north west (Wildings) closed all its shops bar one, the shop they owned is still open, online working fine, but the rent at other place was just too high to be viable.
What we are seeing is the move to out of town locations for stores, Currys are moving in to pc world, Argos are changing to an online order store pickup business. Amazon and John Lewis online order then local pick up at a partner site.
Is it anybody's fault, yes and no, we could have all shopped on the high street and blow to the cost (that'll never happen) Jessops and other could have moved more with the modern world and done a better job of running their company, but at the end of the day times are a changing, our local clog iron shop did a roaring trade once but it is not missed these days , we just moved on to do things differently.
Could Jessops come back as an online retailer, maybe, but places like WEX have got a huge head start.
What we are seeing is the move to out of town locations for stores, Currys are moving in to pc world, Argos are changing to an online order store pickup business. Amazon and John Lewis online order then local pick up at a partner site.
Is it anybody's fault, yes and no, we could have all shopped on the high street and blow to the cost (that'll never happen) Jessops and other could have moved more with the modern world and done a better job of running their company, but at the end of the day times are a changing, our local clog iron shop did a roaring trade once but it is not missed these days , we just moved on to do things differently.
Could Jessops come back as an online retailer, maybe, but places like WEX have got a huge head start.
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Never liked Jessops. preferred Jacobs
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