Lens for aircraft photography

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Les
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I was at the Flying Legends airshow at Duxford last weekend, armed with my D300, Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and 2x teleconverter. I'm quite pleased with the results (this was only my second airshow) but the 400mm focal length is not quite enough to get the detailed shots. When I crop with this combination of lens and teleconverter the photos also appear a bit grainy. I would appreciate any recommendations from seasoned air show photographers as to what lens I should be aiming for to replace the 70-200. Money is an issue so suggestions from £400 up to say £1200 would be welcome.
 
I use a Sigma 170-500f5 and its spot on for aircraft, dont be thinking fast glass like f2.8 for aircraft because you will probably never get out of the f6-f12 for the buggers as its extremely bright up there so a 50-500 sigma will be spot on and save you some cash
 
When I crop with this combination of lens and teleconverter the photos also appear a bit grainy.
this could well be down to the 2x converter as they tend to have more impact on IQ than a 1.4x. The ideal may well be a 300/2.8+1.4xtc but that's obviously outside your budget.
Unfortunately I'm not too up on the likely options for Nikon - the 80-400 would be good except iirc it has a reputation for slow focus which isn't good for aircraft shots & again the 200-400/4 is outwith your budget (& probably arms ;)).
 
The minimum for air show photography is 300mm, Some places even that is not a long enough reach, The Bigma and the (I know your a nikon user) Canon 100-400 seem to be the Air show crowds lenses of choice. IS/VR whatever you call it is a must so you can slow the shutter speed down and get the luverly prop blur.

HTH.
 
I was at the Flying Legends airshow at Duxford last weekend, armed with my D300, Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and 2x teleconverter. I'm quite pleased with the results (this was only my second airshow) but the 400mm focal length is not quite enough to get the detailed shots. When I crop with this combination of lens and teleconverter the photos also appear a bit grainy. I would appreciate any recommendations from seasoned air show photographers as to what lens I should be aiming for to replace the 70-200. Money is an issue so suggestions from £400 up to say £1200 would be welcome.

Never been a fan of the 70-200mm and 2x TC's. For a start, is slows down your autofocus speeds by a large amount, and just isn't a recommended combination, especially for canon users.

The problems with the group of sigma long zooms are they will struggle in poor light, a couple trick the camera into thinking their f5.6 when they are actually f6.3, yes they are affordable, and in good light conditions are a perfect lens to have on your camera body because of the focus range, but I think there are better affordable options out there. As for 400mm not being long enough, it's only Duxford that has significantly increased the distance between the crowd and display line, most other airshows 300 or 400mm is perfect for most situations.

Recommendations

Sigma 100-300mm f4 great lens
Nikon 80-400mm f4-5.6, similar to canon's 100-400mm
Sigma 300mm prime (f2.8) is very affordable, because most of your images will be at this distance or slightly greater.

Although the sigma 50-500mm (Bigma) is probably the best of the rest of the sigma range of long zooms in the affordable price range. Best option would be the Nikon 200-400mm f4. Fantastic lens.

Peter
 
Another option could be the Tamron 200-500mm Di f5-6.3, I have been impressed with the focussing speed on my one and the quality of images.
The hood is a monstrosity though :puke: Bazooka launcher when fitted (y)
 
Sorry to Hijack this thread, i've been meaning to ask this question aswell. For Airshows are there many people with the 400 f/2.8 and T/C's or do you need zooms?

Secondly for stuff like low flying etc, do you see many people with this setup with a tripod and gimbal head or is this not practical for low fly locations?


Thanks

Andy
 
dont be thinking fast glass like f2.8 for aircraft because you will probably never get out of the f6-f12 for the buggers

2.8 lenses dont always mean use at 2.8, the one thing they will give over one say F4-6.3 over the range is the focus speed, the focus will be noticably quicker, mind you, it doesnt make alot of difference if you can use any lens properly, see some great shots from the longer lenses that aren't close to 2.8 :clap:
 
Yeah i understand that, just asking because i dont have any other "long" lenses yet but have the 1.4 TC and looking to get the 2xTC, I want to start doing some airshow type shooting but wasn't sure if the current set up was practical (weight) or if i would be better buying a telezoom etc.

I think a lot of it will be down to technique, which will take me a while to pick up i reckon

Thanks

Andy
 
Sorry to Hijack this thread, i've been meaning to ask this question aswell. For Airshows are there many people with the 400 f/2.8 and T/C's or do you need zooms?

Secondly for stuff like low flying etc, do you see many people with this setup with a tripod and gimbal head or is this not practical for low fly locations?

For Low fly theres very few times you will need or be able to use a tripod. Most either go handheld or use a Bushhawk Rifle grip. The only time I have seen people use a tripod was for the head on shots or panning a prechoosen area. most tend to us the x-200 to x-300 mm range. I used a 100-400 lens the first time I tried, and a 70-200 the 2nd. Got some reasonble shots. For more on low flying sitesand equipment needed theres a few sites out there http://warplane.co.uk/ http://lowfly.net/ to name two.
 
thanks Ziploc, i've had a browse of those sites a few times. Looks like i need to look at a longish zoom lens or a shorter prime.

Thanks for the quick response

Andy
 
I would think that a 400/2.8 would be very good on a 1.3x body for aviation if you can reliably hand hold it but I foresee that as your main problem.
 
I would think that a 400/2.8 would be very good on a 1.3x body for aviation if you can reliably hand hold it but I foresee that as your main problem.

Exactly the problem with the 400/2.8 unless you have arms like tree trunks it is IMPOSSIBLE hence buying the gimbal head (though this is for wildlife and other stuff aswell)

Maybe a siggy 300 and T/C. I don't like the big push pull zooms so not leaving myself many options......
 
anyone had any experiences of using a 100-400L as i have been considering getting one of these, Cheers

It's an affordable versatile lens that has a good range for most aviation photography, will be much faster than the sigma long zooms and will also work better non perfect light conditions, although it will struggle if light conditions start to fail. It's sharp, not as sharp or fast focusing as the primes (but its a zoom), although there are issues with quality (i.e. being sent back for focusing problems), but if you get a good copy it's a very good affordable lens. Only issue will be whether you'll get on with the push / pull system, as this has put people off this lens. For the money it's probably the best zoom option out there if you need 400mm than the cheaper sigma alternatives.

Peter
 
Cheers Peter! That was very helpful

As you have mentioned, the push pull is what has been putting me off getting one, although i suppose there is only one way to find out if i can get on with it.....
 
I use a Sigma 170-500f5 and its spot on for aircraft, dont be thinking fast glass like f2.8 for aircraft because you will probably never get out of the f6-f12 for the buggers as its extremely bright up there so a 50-500 sigma will be spot on and save you some cash

You've obviously never been to Wales in poor light especially for Lowfly. Your sigma wouldn't cope with poor light conditions even if you upped the ISO, especially if you were trying to achieve apertures of f12 with that lens.

Thats why most of the people I see have canon 300mm f2.8's or nikon 200-400mm f4 or the fast primes like 500mm f4, because you can't guarantee wall to wall sunshine the light conditions vary so much to keep the shutter speed up.
 
Sorry to Hijack this thread, i've been meaning to ask this question aswell. For Airshows are there many people with the 400 f/2.8 and T/C's or do you need zooms?

Secondly for stuff like low flying etc, do you see many people with this setup with a tripod and gimbal head or is this not practical for low fly locations?


Thanks

Andy

A friend uses a 400mm f2.8 for lowfly, he mainly shoots in the lakes where you need the extra reach of 400mm for places like the Mast at Tebay, 300mm is suited to most locations in the loop, but as mentioned, at 5.6kg it's very heavy, requires some of the green stuff to handheld and would not be suitable for prolonged spells at airshows. A friend uses a canon 500mm f4 or 300mm f2.8 on 2 bodies for most of the airshows he goes to which are slightly better options. I've got the 300mm f4 and when conditions permit add the 1.4x TC, next step will be the 300mm f2.8 when prices come down a bit.

Never seen anyone use a tripod, or even a monopod (depends if you want to fall off the edge :D) for lowfly, too easy to get off balance and not really needed unless you just want head on shots with say a 400mm f2.8.
 
previously had a sigma 70-300 but wasn't long enough

Have invested in a s/h sigma 120-400 f4.5/5.6 to go onto Pentax Km for Lowestoft next Thursday. As pentax cameras have IS built into the body, the lens for Pentax/Samsung fit doesn't come with Optical Stability.
 
previously had a sigma 70-300 but wasn't long enough

Have invested in a s/h sigma 120-400 f4.5/5.6 to go onto Pentax Km for Lowestoft next Thursday. As pentax cameras have IS built into the body, the lens for Pentax/Samsung fit doesn't come with Optical Stability.

I just did exactly the same, but for Canon. I think we both made a good choice :)
 
the push pull is what has been putting me off getting one
It shuldn't. It's the best feature of this lens. The ergonomics are superb. You can frame and shoot almost telepathically, without having to move your left hand to zoom and then move it back to support the lens.
 
does it not throw off the balance of the lens though by constantly changing length?

Thanx for the reassurance though :D I dont think the bank manager will be thanking you as much though!
 
Thanks all for the advice, although the thread seems to have gone a little off course. From what I have seen, and the fact that I don't have £4000 to spend on a lens, it appears that I have a choice that includes the Nikon 80-400mm f4.5-5.6, Sigma 300mm f2.8 prime and the Sigma 100-300 f4 (the last two possibly with a 1.4x teleconverter). The Sigma 50-500 may also be an option. If anyone has experience of any or all of these I would appreciate your thoughts.
Cheers.
 
Pete, do many people get away with the 100-400 for low flying in wales? as im hoping to get down some time!

It's one of the main (canon) lenses that I see up on the Hills for those of us that struggle to pay £3000 / 4000 for a lens. Although I've been very happy with my 300mm f4 prime which works very well in most of the locations for lowfly.

There are users of the sigma 120-300mm f2.8 which is the next step up from the 100-300mm f4. For the Nikon crowd the 200-400mm f4 is probably the lens of choice, then like the canon's your into the 300mm / 400mm primes that up the $$$ to another level again.
 
Here's something I wrote for fighter control a few days ago, it was mainly considering low level aviation photography - the only real difference is that your likely to be handholding the camera for a lot longer at an airshow so weight becomes a larger factor:

I've seen lots of 100-400 lenses used on the Mountains in Wales and I've used a few different ones myself, here's a mini-review of sorts which might be useful (should this be its own thread)?:

Canon 100-300 USM
This was the first combo I tried at low level, the lens is fairly cheap but has a USM motor which gives you reasonably quick focusing in good light. The max aperture size at 300mm is f/5.6 which isn't much use in the winter - the lens is also quite soft at 300 and needs to be stopped down to F/8 to be really sharp - only any use on the brightest of days.

Canon 300 F/4L
This is a fantastic prime lens and a good length to use in the mach loop. The focusing is very fast and the lens is very sharp at F/4. The reasonable max aperture means that the 300 F/4 can take a 1.4TC and retain focusing on most bodies. The real benefit of this lens is the price, I bought mine from the classifieds on talk photography for about £300 - super bargain!

Sigma 120-300 F/2.8
[Canon Fit]
Not a bad lens at all but very heavy - I mean really heavy! The image quality is pretty good, certainly rivals the Canon 300 when both are at F/4. The wide aperture of F/2.8 allows the camera body to focus the lens in lower light, making this useful for use on those darker days in the loop.

[This year I switched from Canon to Nikon]
Sigma 100-300 F/4 [Nikon Fit]
Another decent quality Sigma lens, perhaps a little more contrasty than the 120-300 and almost as sharp at F/4. The HSM motor in both of the Sigma lenses is pretty good and almost as fast as the Nikon AF-S and Canon USM systems. The lens is still quite heavy and very long but does a very good job of staying sharp all the way through the range.

Nikkor 300 F/4D (IF) AF-S ED
I once read that the only lens better than the Nikkor 300 F/4D is the F/2.8D and having seen results from both I'd probably agree. The lens is very very sharp and offers excellent contrast and colour reproduction. The AF-S motor is fast and quiet - this lens really shines when a 1.4x teleconvertor is attached* where the difference to image quality is imperceivable. It really is a great lens but its also double the price of the Canon offering. I'd say it is a little better all round but its certainly not twice as good.

Primes vs Zooms
Primes will almost always be sharper, especially when used wide open - if you don't want to compromise on image quality then this is the way to go. Zoom lenses offer more flexibility, very useful when photographing from a fixed location. With prime lenses your only choice is to "zoom with your feet" which can mean lots of moving around depending on what comes around the corner. I prefer shooting with primes because they give you one less thing to worry about, if the aircraft comes too close to fill the frame I'll move to focus on the cockpit or some other creative measure.

Image Stabilisation or Vibration Control
Depends - A 300 F/6.3 with VR isn't really going to be any use, A 300 F/2.8 VR might be more useful but I've never bothered with VR or IS so I can't give an informed opinion.

Hope this helps (y)
 
Hi

You could always try renting a couple of the lenses you are considering to compare them and ensure that you only end up paying for the lens that really suits.
 

Sigma 120-300 F/2.8
[Canon Fit]
Not a bad lens at all but very heavy - I mean really heavy! The image quality is pretty good, certainly rivals the Canon 300 when both are at F/4. The wide aperture of F/2.8 allows the camera body to focus the lens in lower light, making this useful for use on those darker days in the loop.

I used this at the Southend Air show (and will be using it at RIAT this weekend) and didn't find it too bad on the weight hand-held. This is coming from someone who weighs 9 stone... Where it gets tricky is wildlife, waiting for a bird in the distance to fly spread its wings and fly off kills the arms.
 
What about the 400 f5.6L for Canon users. No one has mentioned this. If it is correct that the 100-400 is used mainly at the 400 end at airshows, the 400 5.6 would seem like a useful lens, albeit without the flexibility of the zoom but with the advantage that it is pin sharp. Is there a reason why that lens doesn't get a mention?
 
What about the 400 f5.6L for Canon users. No one has mentioned this. If it is correct that the 100-400 is used mainly at the 400 end at airshows, the 400 5.6 would seem like a useful lens, albeit without the flexibility of the zoom but with the advantage that it is pin sharp. Is there a reason why that lens doesn't get a mention?

Yes it is a great lens (never see one at an airshow or lowfly), quicker focusing than the 100-400mm and sharper at 400 than the zoom. Don't know why it's not used at airshows (primarily a wildlife lens), as for lowfly 400mm for the loop is too long and f5.6 will struggle in the varied light conditions Wales has to throw at you although for the Lakes, probably a perfect lens. I think people like the IS of the 100-400mm or 300mm f4, where as the 400mm f5.6 does have....

Peter
 
I am going to Silverstone for the august b/h weekend..WAC + BTCC I am hoping my Sigma 135-400mm on my D200 is ok for this..I was considering a 2x sigma convertor but think I will try without..Planes and Cars over the weekend lets hope the weathers nice..(y)
 
Appologies in advance for a bit of a thread hijack, but this thread has been quite usefull to me (as a bit of a photographic dunce:crying::thinking:) as I've been thinking of upgrading my current Nikon 55-200VR for some better quality glass.

After a bit of research I think I've narrowed it down to either the Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 or 120-400mm f/4.5-5.6. Trouble is I'm un sure whether to go for the extra reach of the 120 -400 or whether the 70 - 200 will give better PQ:thinking:
Am I thinking along the right lines here or am I talking rubbish:help:
 
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