Lets talk 13.3 inch laptops

[leoedin]

soooooo

I am going to university in September (gasp). Anyway, I need a laptop. I'll be doing aerospace engineering, so it has to run windows (to be able to run CAD programs).

However, I also need something with some photo manipulation skills. My plan is to get some sort of dual-drive external RAID system to have redundant photo storage. Something like a 500GB Lacie 2Big.

Here's the problem.

Everyone knows that OSX is better for photo manipulation. Don't deny it. It's true. So, the obvious choice would be a

MacBook

Right? Core2Duo, OS X, Can run Windows, Pretty good specs.
but no... It has no dedicated graphics, it doesn't have ESata or an expresscard to add it.

So, what do I do. I don't want a 15 inch laptop like the macbook pro, and the air is stupid. The answer, as far as I see it is to wait, and hope that the next iteration (rumoured to be coming slightly earlier than usual this year) will have what I want.

Or, I could do the clever thing and get a

Dell XPS M1330

So, it's not a looker, but it has an expresscard, it can have dedicated graphics, it has a slightly larger stock HD, it's slightly less... In fact, the only reason that I wouldn't completely disregard the macbook is

OS X

So tell me, Talk Photographians, is the wonders of Apples BSD-Based Unixy Cocoa plastered system of operating holiness worth the significant loss in specs? Is Vista *that* bad? What's the square root of -1?

Thanks in advance for your spouting wisdom!

Leo

 

[whitewash]

13.3inch for CAD design and photoshop work isnt gonna be great, you'd be better off going for a 17inch screen for that.


or a small laptop and a 19inch external screen for cad work

 

[leoedin]

13.3inch for CAD design and photoshop work isnt gonna be great, you'd be better off going for a 17inch screen for that.


or a small laptop and a 19inch external screen for cad work

You've got me! I plan to have a larger LCD screen on my desk for stuff when I'm not out and about, but I just don't want a large laptop for carrying around.

 

[Gary]

what software are you using? CATIA?
Doing lots of FEA? Rendering? 3D Studio?

 

[leoedin]

what software are you using? CATIA?
Doing lots of FEA? Rendering? 3D Studio?

I believe the main 3D modelling package for the course I'm doing is Solidworks, although I would imagine there is other software used. I've not started yet, so I'm not absolutely sure what software is used. I don't think that students are required to run CAD software on their personal computers (the university has a computer cluster with all the required software on all PC's) but it would be good to get some out-of-hours practice at these things.

 

[specialman]

What's an express card?

Regarding the drive, I thought you can set up one of them Lacie drives as a RAID unit using the supplied software. I have one of the D2 160gb drives (great drive by the way*–*firewire is sooo quick) and I'm sure I read somewhere in the manual that you can set it up as a RAID device.

OS X in any of its forms is not a better photo manipulation OS. It's the software you use, although I do find Photoshop (and Creative Suite in general) runs better and looks better (easier on the eye) when run on an OS X machine.

Your course in engineering should come first, after all, that's your future. So I'd go for the machine that services your needs for that first and foremost. I'm a devout Mac and OS X user and will always try to 'convert' people when I can, but I'd say your educatin is most important. You can always run PS on a Windoze machine and you won't fidn that much difference.

Plus, you'll get a bigger screen for your money unless you go with a 17" G4 powerbook (very cheap) that runs emulator softaware to allow Windows to operate on it

 

[whitewash]

I believe the main 3D modelling package for the course I'm doing is Solidworks, although I would imagine there is other software used. I've not started yet, so I'm not absolutely sure what software is used. I don't think that students are required to run CAD software on their personal computers (the university has a computer cluster with all the required software on all PC's) but it would be good to get some out-of-hours practice at these things.

solidworks is quite nice to use, i used it when i was at uni, it contains cosmosworks which is an FEA and CFD package. i ran it on my home PC when i was at uni and it didnt struggle, so a modern laptop should be ok to run it calcs wise but it may struggle for graphics.

my main annoyance with solidworks was the student license, which cost £250 and the license expired after 2 years which means that if i was to buy it in the 1st year id have had to shell out £500 to keep me going for the 4 years of my course. forking out £250 for whats a trial version of a product really annoyed me, its not like i could use it to make money out of in that time either to recoup my costs as everything printed out had "EDUCATIONAL USE ONLY NOT FOR PROFIT" written all over it. and they wonder why so many of my coursemates found dodgy copies on the internet of the full program!

that said its a hell of a lot cheaper than CATIA!

 

[leoedin]

What's an express card?

Regarding the drive, I thought you can set up one of them Lacie drives as a RAID unit using the supplied software. I have one of the D2 160gb drives (great drive by the way*–*firewire is sooo quick) and I'm sure I read somewhere in the manual that you can set it up as a RAID device.

OS X in any of its forms is not a better photo manipulation OS. It's the software you use, although I do find Photoshop (and Creative Suite in general) runs better and looks better (easier on the eye) when run on an OS X machine.

Your course in engineering should come first, after all, that's your future. So I'd go for the machine that services your needs for that first and foremost. I'm a devout Mac and OS X user and will always try to 'convert' people when I can, but I'd say your educatin is most important. You can always run PS on a Windoze machine and you won't fidn that much difference.

Plus, you'll get a bigger screen for your money unless you go with a 17" G4 powerbook (very cheap) that runs emulator softaware to allow Windows to operate on it

An expresscard is a *new* version of PCMCIA - it is basically a card-form PCI-Express slot, so you can plug high bandwidth things (like esata adapters, graphics cards etc) into it. It's pretty useful in terms of futureproofing.

If I was to get a mac, it would have to be an intel mac. There is no way I'd take a step back and get a powerPC based computer. As said previously, I'm not in it for a big screen, but a small one. I plan to have a larger screen permanently on my desk.

 

[Gary]

if your using something like solidworks i would think twice about a latop, but of course if you need the portability then get one.. But a really powerful workstation is going to be so much more suited than a laptop

 

[leoedin]

if your using something like solidworks i would think twice about a latop, but of course if you need the portability then get one.. But a really powerful workstation is going to be so much more suited than a laptop

I know, but I'm not going to get a desktop (hence the thread title). I'm well aware of the shortcomings of laptops. I am simply asking for some advice on whether OSX is worth that much. Based on further reading I have done elsewhere, the answer seems to be no.

 

[Moos3h]

OSX better for photo manipulation? Nope, I'm afraid you've lost me. Since when does what operating system a machine runs impact on how well your favourite image editing software runs?

The way I see it, the operating system means nothing. I use Macs and PCs on a daily basis, and the PC is the machine I turn to for my image editing - I could use Lightroom on either, but it gets the job done so I never feel the need.

If this is secretly a 'well...Macs just LOOK cooler, don't they' thread, then I agree entirely but PC's are just as capable, if not more so thanks to the wealth of freeware for Photo editing and retouching.

Cheers,
James

 

[specialman]

I'm with you now. Yeah, that's something that is sadly left off modern Mac laptops but saying that, the only reason i got a PC card for my Powerbook was to use CF cards in it because I just preferred downloading images directly rather than through the camera and USB cable.

 

[Mother Goose]

To be perfectly honest, pre-undergraduate students love rushing out to buy a new computer with the excuse that "I'll need it for my classes," but that's not true. Very little of your time will be spent in the vicinity of a PC and very little of your work will require top-of-the-line hardware. Heck, hundreds of thousands of engineers have graduated in the past -- in a time when calculators weighed more than a textbook and cost more then a car.

One of the members in my department -- certainly one of the top minds in Applied Mathematics in Britain -- refuses to even touch a computer on a daily basis. In fact, most researchers are still programming in Fortran -- the language of choice for many scientists.

Keep that in mind.

Everyone knows that OSX is better for photo manipulation. Don't deny it. It's true.

Um...no it isn't. Why in the world would you think OSX is better for photo manipulation?

Right? Core2Duo, OS X, Can run Windows, Pretty good specs.
but no... It has no dedicated graphics, it doesn't have ESata or an expresscard to add it.

The only reason why you'd need dedicated graphics is if you were planning on gaming or doing 3D modeling. I'm not sure why you need E-SATA or Expresscard capabilities, either. If you want something with all the bells and whistles, get a desktop.

So tell me, Talk Photographians, is the wonders of Apples BSD-Based Unixy Cocoa plastered system of operating holiness worth the significant loss in specs? Is Vista *that* bad? What's the square root of -1?

It's up to you. The Mac vs. PC debate has been done to death, but in this day and age, you're not going to suffer going one way and not the other. Look it up [the debate] if you're seriously curious.

As for myself, it helps me to use OSX because of the underlying Unix capabilities. Since my machines at work are running Linux, this makes it slightly easier to remotely log in. Also, I do a bit of programming in Fortran, and this is again, easier on a Unix machine.

That being said, almost anything that can be done on a Mac can be done on a PC and vice versa. It's just a matter of how many hoops you want to jump through.

 

[whitewash]

To be perfectly honest, pre-undergraduate students love rushing out to buy a new computer with the excuse that "I'll need it for my classes," but that's not true.

i sort of agree with you there. i didnt buy a computer til the start of my second year and it only really became a necessity in my final year when my project dictated that i couldnt exactly carry a cylinder head down to the library to 3d model it!

for the majority of work the university computer rooms do the job with the advantage you can watch the skirt while your there!

 

[leoedin]

To be perfectly honest, pre-undergraduate students love rushing out to buy a new computer with the excuse that "I'll need it for my classes," but that's not true. Very little of your time will be spent in the vicinity of a PC and very little of your work will require top-of-the-line hardware. Heck, hundreds of thousands of engineers have graduated in the past -- in a time when calculators weighed more than a textbook and cost more then a car.

One of the members in my department -- certainly one of the top minds in Applied Mathematics in Britain -- refuses to even touch a computer on a daily basis. In fact, most researchers are still programming in Fortran -- the language of choice for many scientists.

I like using computers, and I like digital photography. Those both require a computer. There are components of my course that are online. I could probably do it without a computer, but I don't want to. I don't want the hassle of carting a desktop hundreds of miles, and it is a good time for an upgrade. Will I need it for my courses? Probably. 3D CAD is something that takes time to learn (I've done a little of it during various work experience placements) and having a computer capable of doing it out of the lab will be useful.

Um...no it isn't. Why in the world would you think OSX is better for photo manipulation?

The same software runs on both OSX and Windows. You're right, it isn't really. However, OSX is naturally 64bit, while installing 64bit windows is quite a hurdle. 64 bit computing has some natural advantages with processor intensive things like RAW processing. Saying that, photoshop won't be 64 bit on OSX for quite a while after it is on Windows, so the advantage would be in Lightroom.

The only reason why you'd need dedicated graphics is if you were planning on gaming or doing 3D modeling. I'm not sure why you need E-SATA or Expresscard capabilities, either. If you want something with all the bells and whistles, get a desktop.

Thanks for telling me things I already know! I'd advise you read the first and subsequent posts a little more carefully. Did I not state a number of times that I plan to run CAD software (including 3D CAD, hence "Solidworks")? I've also heard that lightroom relies quite heavily on graphics cards. And yes, I do ocasionally run graphics intensive programs (games, simulators etc).

Expresscard? Again, I said that it was useful for high bandwidth applications. E-Sata? Why do you think I'd need E-Sata? To plug in E-Sata devices. USB is far too slow for any serious data movement (again, photography website = lots of RAW files).

It's up to you. The Mac vs. PC debate has been done to death, but in this day and age, you're not going to suffer going one way and not the other. Look it up [the debate] if you're seriously curious.

As for myself, it helps me to use OSX because of the underlying Unix capabilities. Since my machines at work are running Linux, this makes it slightly easier to remotely log in. Also, I do a bit of programming in Fortran, and this is again, easier on a Unix machine.

That being said, almost anything that can be done on a Mac can be done on a PC and vice versa. It's just a matter of how many hoops you want to jump through.

Thanks! I have dabbled in Linux, and there is a lot of unix specific stuff that would be cool to have (which would be available on a mac). I can't use Linux as a main OS because I'm not ready to commit to that level of open source - software like photoshop etc isn't available on it. I guess I just want OS X

I think that function and logic is overtaking desire, and so I'm probably going to go for the XPS M1330. If anyone can think of any other similarly specced laptops in that area then don't hesitate to contribute. (except the Sony SZ - I don't buy Sony stuff).

Have a good day!

 

[Col_M]

To be perfectly honest, pre-undergraduate students love rushing out to buy a new computer with the excuse that "I'll need it for my classes," but that's not true. Very little of your time will be spent in the vicinity of a PC and very little of your work will require top-of-the-line hardware. Heck, hundreds of thousands of engineers have graduated in the past.

I managed to run AutoCAD on a celeron 600 lappy with a 12.1" screen @ 800x600 when I was at uni studying engineering

On a side note I've seen a few of you mention CATIA, if you have any experience with could I pick your brains as I'd like to learn to use it at some point?

 

[Mother Goose]

I managed to run AutoCAD on a celeron 600 lappy with a 12.1" screen @ 800x600 when I was at uni studying engineering

Thank you. And I suppose before the days of a Celly 600, there were no engineers, right?

The same software runs on both OSX and Windows. You're right, it isn't really. However, OSX is naturally 64bit, while installing 64bit windows is quite a hurdle. 64 bit computing has some natural advantages with processor intensive things like RAW processing. Saying that, photoshop won't be 64 bit on OSX for quite a while after it is on Windows, so the advantage would be in Lightroom.

Well, with a 13.3 inch Mac, the most RAM you're going to use is 2 GB. The x64 architecture is only going to help if your machine is suitably equipped, and I don't believe the Core 2 Duo Mac qualifies.

In the end, you're quibbling over negligible details, and your statement ("Everyone knows that OSX is better for photo manipulation. Don't deny it. It's true.") is just not true.

In any case, your question was about the applicability of high-end computing to university studies. I simply gave my opinion about the matter which was that fresh undergraduates (many of them in the sciences) are always eager to get the latest and greatest when such hardware isn't required -- even at the level departmental research (which is what I do).

 

[who?]

You could always install OSX on non-mac hardware and dual boot if you want. I've not done it but the web is full of instructions.