Matts had an "off"

Ah, don;t worry about him - he's just damaged the bumper and headlights... =]
 
lift-off oversteer.. (normally caused by weight shifting mid corner by lifting off of the loud pedal suddenly or breaking hard mid corner).. isnt fun. had that before in my old spaxo but i was driving like a male chicken.
 
oops, as you say glad he's ok. (y)


Got to love the immediate "Could have been Diesel" response though. :LOL:
 
neil_g said:
lift-off oversteer.. (normally caused by weight shifting mid corner by lifting off of the loud pedal suddenly or breaking hard mid corner).. isnt fun. had that before in my old spaxo but i was driving like a male chicken.
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Yup me too. Been there done that.... parked in a hedge on top of a dead tree.

Hope you are ok Matthew and the insurance is sorting it swiftly.
 
It's always very slippy the first rain after a dry spell, the thin film of crud on the roads has no grip. Not too much harm done I hope.
 
smoothedit said:
Yup me too. Been there done that.... parked in a hedge on top of a dead tree.

Hope you are ok Matthew and the insurance is sorting it swiftly.
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i ended up backwards on the grass about 2m before a crash barrier started. back end went one way then snapped back the other way so did a 270..

at the time i blamed diesel on the road, these days i just admit i was an idiot lol
 
foggy4ever said:
You know when you hit diesel......zero traction.
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been there done that, riding an 80cc scooter, doing 30mph, little bit of oil on the road, next thing I knew, I was sliding with the bike on it's side :shake:
 
foggy4ever said:
You know when you hit diesel......zero traction.
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exactly, in little over 10 years of driving I've only ever hit two patches of diesel, both times were at slow speeds and as you say zero traction, all you can do is sit there as a passenger and wait for some grip - hoping it comes before the curb, barrier, car etc.


as Dazzler said, likely to be more to do with a slippery section that comes with the first rain after a long dry period.
 
AndrewA123 said:
exactly, in little over 10 years of driving I've only ever hit two patches of diesel, both times were at slow speeds and as you say zero traction, all you can do is sit there as a passenger and wait for some grip - hoping it comes before the curb, barrier, car etc.


as Dazzler said, likely to be more to do with a slippery section that comes with the first rain after a long dry period.
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to be honest the way the back end was described as "snapping" away it would suggest what i mentioned, where as hitting diesel would suggest more of an understeer situation.
 
i remember 3 years ago after id passed my test, i went round a roundabout in wilmslow after a blast of rain in my 1.3 fiesta encore. anyway, id gone round this corner more times than i could remember in a few months, wet, dry, night, fast, slow ect. and this one day i was taking it easy as i was abit too early for where i was going, and i just lost control, left the road and kissed a lampost, no damage, airbags didnt even deploy. i remembered trying to control the car but that idea went out the window and i made a conscious decision to just brace for impact.

anyway, nothing came of it, and i had the **** taken out of me when i regailed the story, young driver n all that. but i would still to this day swear that there was something on the road, as id been round that turn in the wet, faster many times and the back end didnt even twitch.
 
Glad Matt is OK.. Scary experience..

Did a 180 spin on the way to Luton Airport with Jonathan Ryan whena fox jumped the central reservation.. WE were going to Geneva for a weeks photography..

Had some biggies as a moutain biker, a serious head injury in 1992 snd whiplash in 1994-5ish.. Still have some scars.....
 
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glad to hear ok!
if you want trouser soiling- try aquaplaning on a motorbike, heading toward the back end of a truck!!
I tend to take it easier these days!
 
perfect example of why youngsters need to have more time learning and less time driving badly. Raise the driving solo age to 21 and get some experience. After some of matts comments on facebook (liftoff oversteer) it was pretty obvious he was going to dent something!
 
He was travelling at 20mph under the speed limit - to have an off at those sort of speeds in a 30 zone takes a special kind of driver :naughty:
 
Matty - Why would having a parent or someone else in the car ever prevent you from crashing? So you may drive a little slower.. but speed wasn't the issue in Matts case, apparently. He lifted off, someone sitting in the passenger seat isn't going to be able to instruct you through that as it happens so quickly.

In reality, the whole learning and testing system needs a massive shake up and overhaul. Young girls should not be able to pass their test just by wearing mini skirts and low cut tops, which I've heard of happening more than a few times.

The problem is, us young & new drivers are taught how to pass our driving test only. We aren't taught how to drive in road conditions other than pretty much dry weather conditions.
Learners should be taken to and taught on skid pans, they should be taught how to correct over steer and under steer properly and everything else. Daddy, or anyone else with a full license, sitting in the seat next to you not ever going to substitute proper training by proper skilled professionals is it?

I also don't think age really has much to do with it. I believe that if someone is a reckless driver at the age of 17, then they would probably be a reckless driver at the age of 21 too. Again, if proper training was given - we/they would know how to handle speed properly, as anyone can push an accelerator down but it takes skill, or sheer luck, to be able to handle it safely.

James
 
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Jamesbuk said:
new drivers are taught how to pass our driving test only.
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Thats half the problem. When I passed my test i got home and the first word my grandad said were, "Well done son, NOW is when you learn to drive"

He was spot on.
 
SK617 said:
glad to hear ok!
if you want trouser soiling- try aquaplaning on a motorbike, heading toward the back end of a truck!!
I tend to take it easier these days!
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YARK! Not managed to aquaplane on mine yet... don't think I want to!!
 
Ok then, he's just a bad driver. :D

Matt where you really driving slowly or were you trying to catch Kimi raikkenon?

When I was 19 one of my 'friends' nearly killed 2 passengers in the rear or his car and tried to put a fence post up my backside by having a little liftoff oversteer..I didn't try driving until I was 23 as I had a hard time getting in a car.

Learning car control is a skill that is sadly lacking in new drivers.
 
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:wave: Hello everyone :) I am fine, my first thought was 'my car!!!!' :LOL:

I have just ripped the bumper off on the right front and the headlight supports have smashed but it is nothing a bit of gaffa tape cant fix :)

I was honestly doing 40mph in a NSL zone due to slippy it was. I turned into the cornor, the back started to come around so I siad to myself 'dont lift'. Then I saw a crash barrier flash against my headlights (was a lot furhter away then I Thought......) and I lifted. It snapped the other way and I went sideways through the hedge and into the field.

Luckily I was only doing 40 as when I went back the next night, I saw I was less then a foot from a telegraph pole :eek:

So I know what I did wrong, I know I shouldnt have lifted but I did.
 
matty said:
perfect example of why youngsters need to have more time learning and less time driving badly. Raise the driving solo age to 21 and get some experience. After some of matts comments on facebook (liftoff oversteer) it was pretty obvious he was going to dent something!
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Ahem. Passed my test 5 months after my 17th birthday, taught solely by my Dad, been driving a little over a year solo now. 2 accidents, but neither my fault (one a woman went up my rear, couldn't have gone anywhere to stop it or I'd have hit someone else, 2nd someone pulled out onto me on a motorway, again had to anchor up, nowhere to go and yet I avoided hitting anything).

However one of the people who hit me was a woman in her 30s, she wasn't paying attention (her own admission), the other I was more interested in the whole not dying thing, but let's be honest most van drivers aren't 18-20 year olds.

But new drivers have more accidents as they're new, accidents are almost as common in newly passed drivers of any age - age isn't the issue, inexperience is. And no amount of driving with a safety net next to you can change that, everything is easier with someone who can tell you what to do in an emergency.

That said in the ice Dad did take me somewhere safe (and private!) and got me to play with him next to me, so I had a better idea of skid control for just in case. Probably saved me a crash when 2 days later I hit some black ice going at a very sensible speed around a corner.



Sorry for the long reply, being assumed to be an incompetent driver because I'm only 18 really hacks me off :D



Anyhoo glad you're ok Matt, the fact you're not blaming someone else is the main thing, when you know your downfalls you can fix them :D

Glad the car's ok too! :)
 
littlemonster said:
Ahem. Passed my test 5 months after my 17th birthday, taught solely by my Dad, been driving a little over a year solo now. 2 accidents, but neither my fault (one a woman went up my rear, couldn't have gone anywhere to stop it or I'd have hit someone else, 2nd someone pulled out onto me on a motorway, again had to anchor up, nowhere to go and yet I avoided hitting anything).

However one of the people who hit me was a woman in her 30s, she wasn't paying attention (her own admission), the other I was more interested in the whole not dying thing, but let's be honest most van drivers aren't 18-20 year olds.

But new drivers have more accidents as they're new, accidents are almost as common in newly passed drivers of any age - age isn't the issue, inexperience is. And no amount of driving with a safety net next to you can change that, everything is easier with someone who can tell you what to do in an emergency.

That said in the ice Dad did take me somewhere safe (and private!) and got me to play with him next to me, so I had a better idea of skid control for just in case. Probably saved me a crash when 2 days later I hit some black ice going at a very sensible speed around a corner.

Sorry for the long reply, being assumed to be an incompetent driver because I'm only 18 really hacks me off :D

Anyhoo glad you're ok Matt, the fact you're not blaming someone else is the main thing, when you know your downfalls you can fix them :D

Glad the car's ok too! :)
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yes. inexperience. which was my point :shrug:, get more experience. pass plus, skid pans, icy car parks :D are all good ways to learn how to control a car with less chance of sticking it in the hedge.

Statistically, young drivers are indeed incompetant, thats why your insurance is 5 times the cost of mine and 3 times more than the cars worth..and its also why if you do advanced driver training you get a discount. Dont get me wrong, I think driving is the best thing ever, and I encourage anyone to get out and drive as its totally liberating (unless you live in london!) but you cant beat experience.

Its good that matt is ok and his car is easy to fix (ducktape is your friend) but he shouldnt have to have offs to learn how to turn into a slide and drive out of it..
 
matty said:
yes. inexperience. which was my point :shrug:, get more experience. pass plus, skid pans, icy car parks :D are all good ways to learn how to control a car with less chance of sticking it in the hedge.

Statistically, young drivers are indeed incompetant, thats why your insurance is 5 times the cost of mine and 3 times more than the cars worth..and its also why if you do advanced driver training you get a discount. Dont get me wrong, I think driving is the best thing ever, and I encourage anyone to get out and drive as its totally liberating (unless you live in london!) but you cant beat experience.

Its good that matt is ok and his car is easy to fix (ducktape is your friend) but he shouldnt have to have offs to learn how to turn into a slide and drive out of it..
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But raising the solo driving age to 21 won't fix any of that, if the age was raised to 30 then it'd be 30-34 year olds having the most crashes. :shrug:

Besides, any idiot can know how to turn into a slide, the theory is pretty easy, doing it in a safe open space is pretty easy (not to mention good fun :D), doing it in a moment of panic as you've misjudged a corner is more difficult for most people though :LOL:

That said I'm pro a harder driving test, when I realised just how easy our current one is to pass :shake:
 
Matt Sayle said:
I know how to ;) Just that I paniced and lifted off.
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You might know how, but you dont know how to implement it as you havent been taught, hence why you crashed. Ive been told how to make Baked Alaska but I dont think i'll make it work first time. Again, its experience.


littlemonster said:
But raising the solo driving age to 21 won't fix any of that, if the age was raised to 30 then it'd be 30-34 year olds having the most crashes. :shrug:
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Young drivers are a higher risk because between the ages of 17 - 21 a lot of them lose vast amounts of common sense and seem to want to drive like wallies, thats a fact and its the reason insurance for young drivers is so high. Its not all drivers, but its a fair amount of them. If those young drivers do advanced training then they can get a discount..why is that? Because they are taught more about how to drive SAFELY than just how to drive. Older people who start driving are less likely to dabble with lift-off oversteer, so I stand by my original assesment, younger drivers need more tuition on how to drive in all conditions.
 
In my day to day experience I'd send 50% of current road users back to driving school.
 
matty said:
You might know how, but you dont know how to implement it as you havent been taught, hence why you crashed. Ive been told how to make Baked Alaska but I dont think i'll make it work first time. Again, its experience.




Young drivers are a higher risk because between the ages of 17 - 21 a lot of them lose vast amounts of common sense and seem to want to drive like wallies, thats a fact and its the reason insurance for young drivers is so high. Its not all drivers, but its a fair amount of them. If those young drivers do advanced training then they can get a discount..why is that? Because they are taught more about how to drive SAFELY than just how to drive. Older people who start driving are less likely to dabble with lift-off oversteer, so I stand by my original assesment, younger drivers need more tuition on how to drive in all conditions.
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Stop saying a lot of them please? It's not a lot of them at all, it's a group of them. Stop tarnishing everyone with the same brush. You seem a bit ignorant and rude about the younger generation. Most new drivers have accidents due to them not having experience. The statistics state 1/3rd of people crash their car in the first year, not young drivers, just new drivers.

I'm coming up to 2 years after passing my test, I drive a modified Citroen Saxo (Which I bet you would immediately look at like I'm a bad driver, I don't really care). I've almost had a crash once, how did that happen? A 40 year old guy in an Alfa Romeo on his phone pulled out a junction right in front of me, had to break extremely hard to miss him. I've driven in heavy rain, heavy snow, heavy wind the lot, and that's the only time I've nearly crashed. In broad sunlight in the middle of the summer.
 
matty said:
You might know how, but you dont know how to implement it as you havent been taught, hence why you crashed. Ive been told how to make Baked Alaska but I dont think i'll make it work first time. Again, its experience.


Young drivers are a higher risk because between the ages of 17 - 21 a lot of them lose vast amounts of common sense and seem to want to drive like wallies, thats a fact and its the reason insurance for young drivers is so high. Its not all drivers, but its a fair amount of them. If those young drivers do advanced training then they can get a discount..why is that? Because they are taught more about how to drive SAFELY than just how to drive. Older people who start driving are less likely to dabble with lift-off oversteer, so I stand by my original assesment, younger drivers need more tuition on how to drive in all conditions.
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And exactly how many of the over 21s on the road do you think have actual experience?! And even someone who has done it will probably panic on a road when it happens, anything is easy enough when you've got a nice big open area to do it in and nobody coming the other way!


Not just under 21s drive like wallies, by that logic I must be a better driver than you anyway, statistically women are safer, so maybe all men shouldn't be allowed on the road either? Yes that's it, let's only let women over 21 drive. Oh and too old and you lose your reaction times, so let's say until they retire only.

And actually on a driving forum I was on the women passing in their 30s perhaps saved £100 a year over the 18 year old girls of the same age, statistically the difference in driving ability is all due to how long you've been driving, not how old you are when you passed. Doesn't matter if you're 17 or 70, you're more likely to have an accident in the 2 years after passing regardless.


And if statistics bother you that much, you should know I'm most likely to kill a hedge or rear end someone at 5MPH, general inexperience or concentration lapses, or cause an accident through hesitation. You on the other hand are more likely to go at 110 on a motorway while drunk and kill yourself and a family in another car. Less doesn't always indicate safer.


Statistics are the devil of the insurance world, as in real term application they mean nothing. A lot of those dangerous 18-21 year olds won't have insurance in the 1st place, yet their crashes are still taken into statistics.
 
Pieface said:
Stop saying a lot of them please? It's not a lot of them at all, it's a group of them. Stop tarnishing everyone with the same brush. You seem a bit ignorant and rude about the younger generation. Most new drivers have accidents due to them not having experience. The statistics state 1/3rd of people crash their car in the first year, not young drivers, just new drivers.

I'm coming up to 2 years after passing my test, I drive a modified Citroen Saxo (Which I bet you would immediately look at like I'm a bad driver, I don't really care). I've almost had a crash once, how did that happen? A 40 year old guy in an Alfa Romeo on his phone pulled out a junction right in front of me, had to break extremely hard to miss him. I've driven in heavy rain, heavy snow, heavy wind the lot, and that's the only time I've nearly crashed. In broad sunlight in the middle of the summer.
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fair comment, but the facts point to young male drivers being most likely to crash. What do you class as the younger generation? im not that old...:help: Im not being rude, im going from my own experiences, damage to my vehicle and their own vehicle etc. having the pleasure of living near boy racer chav idiots and having to put up with them most days doesnt help my perceptions...I apologise to the really safe and careful drivers under the age of 25 who may be offended...

http://www.safermotoring.co.uk/NewlyQualifiedTeenageDrivers.html
http://www.brake.org.uk/young-drivers-the-hard-facts

Id love there to be no accidents, but the fact is, younger drivers are more likely to stuff it in the trees. I accept that not everyone thinks they are Lewis Hamilton, but the point im making is valid, inexperienced drivers are most likely to bin it, and the biggest group of inexperienced drivers are young ones - train all new drivers better and its less likely to happen, I dont think anyone can argue with that
 
matty said:
fair comment, but the facts point to young male drivers being most likely to crash. What do you class as the younger generation? im not that old...:help: Im not being rude, im going from my own experiences, damage to my vehicle and their own vehicle etc. having the pleasure of living near boy racer chav idiots and having to put up with them most days doesnt help my perceptions...I apologise to the really safe and careful drivers under the age of 25 who may be offended...

http://www.safermotoring.co.uk/NewlyQualifiedTeenageDrivers.html
http://www.brake.org.uk/young-drivers-the-hard-facts

Id love there to be no accidents, but the fact is, younger drivers are more likely to stuff it in the trees. I accept that not everyone thinks they are Lewis Hamilton, but the point im making is valid, inexperienced drivers are most likely to bin it, and the biggest group of inexperienced drivers are young ones - train all new drivers better and its less likely to happen, I dont think anyone can argue with that
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No, you were saying A lot. Instigating more than half of the drivers are like that. A majority sort of thing. Which is rude, as it's tarnishing everyone with the same brush. Just because you had incidents and there are chavs near you doesn't mean everyone is like that. Statisitcs point to 1/3rd of drivers are involved in a crash. Doesn't mean 1/3rd of Drivers CAUSE a crash. I know someone who crashed the day after she passed her test. Want to guess how? A car ran through a red light into the side of her, yet that will go down in statistics as she's one of those inexperienced involved in a crash. I know others who have caused crashes. Heck a big story a year or two ago was how one guy caused an accident and he and 4 others died. How did that happen? He drank and drove. Something I would never do (Because I don't drink, hate the feeling of getting drunk) yet all I got was how we should be more careful on the roads, when it wasn't inexperience that caused the crash. It was plain stupidity.
 
Pieface said:
No, you were saying A lot. Instigating more than half of the drivers are like that. A majority sort of thing. Which is rude, as it's tarnishing everyone with the same brush. Just because you had incidents and there are chavs near you doesn't mean everyone is like that. Statisitcs point to 1/3rd of drivers are involved in a crash. Doesn't mean 1/3rd of Drivers CAUSE a crash. I know someone who crashed the day after she passed her test. Want to guess how? A car ran through a red light into the side of her, yet that will go down in statistics as she's one of those inexperienced involved in a crash. I know others who have caused crashes. Heck a big story a year or two ago was how one guy caused an accident and he and 4 others died. How did that happen? He drank and drove. Something I would never do (Because I don't drink, hate the feeling of getting drunk) yet all I got was how we should be more careful on the roads, when it wasn't inexperience that caused the crash. It was plain stupidity.
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I did apologise..fair play if you dont accept it though, here are more facts..

ROSPA said:
1 in 5 drivers crash within their first year of driving

1 in 3 male drivers aged between 17 and 20 years crash in the first two years after passing their test.

An 18 year old driver is more than three times as likely to be involved in a crash as a 48 year old driver.

Young drivers are more likely to be involved in highspeed crashes, single vehicle crashes involving losing control, crashes in the dark and crashes when overtaking and negotiating bends

http://www.rospa.com/RoadSafety/info/youngdrivers.pdf
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that says pretty much exactly what I've said, new drivers (not just young ones )need more experience, especially younger ones. Do you disagree with the Rospa figures? Stop being offended because you are a young driver, Ive apologised already once :shrug: that doesnt happen often, and it doesnt change the facts that ive posted and provided links for?
 
littlemonster said:
Not just under 21s drive like wallies, by that logic I must be a better driver than you anyway, statistically women are safer, so maybe all men shouldn't be allowed on the road either? Yes that's it, let's only let women over 21 drive. Oh and too old and you lose your reaction times, so let's say until they retire only.
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of the 3 times my car has been hit, 2 of them have been women, both under 25.

And actually on a driving forum I was on the women passing in their 30s perhaps saved £100 a year over the 18 year old girls of the same age, statistically the difference in driving ability is all due to how long you've been driving, not how old you are when you passed. Doesn't matter if you're 17 or 70, you're more likely to have an accident in the 2 years after passing regardless.
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girls are safer drivers, they dont have so much testosterone...how much is your insurance, out of interest?

And if statistics bother you that much, you should know I'm most likely to kill a hedge or rear end someone at 5MPH, general inexperience or concentration lapses, or cause an accident through hesitation. You on the other hand are more likely to go at 110 on a motorway while drunk and kill yourself and a family in another car. Less doesn't always indicate safer.
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why would i be most likely to travel at 110 on the motorway while drunk?

Statistics are the devil of the insurance world, as in real term application they mean nothing. A lot of those dangerous 18-21 year olds won't have insurance in the 1st place, yet their crashes are still taken into statistics.
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uninsured morons still cause insurance payouts because if they hit someone who is fully comp it gets paid for, if the kill a hedge it nearly always comes from some insurance somewhere...
 
matty said:
that says pretty much exactly what I've said, new drivers (not just young ones )need more experience, especially younger ones. Do you disagree with the Rospa figures? Stop being offended because you are a young driver, Ive apologised already once :shrug: that doesnt happen often, and it doesnt change the facts that ive posted and provided links for?
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But you state that not driving solo till you're 21 will not cause it to happen where it will most likely do bugger all. To be honest, it's probably lucky for everyone that the young drivers who do crash can only realistically drive hatchbacks. Imagine if you're in America with their big cars and no insurance.
 
Pieface said:
But you state that not driving solo till you're 21 will not cause it to happen where it will most likely do bugger all. To be honest, it's probably lucky for everyone that the young drivers who do crash can only realistically drive hatchbacks. Imagine if you're in America with their big cars and no insurance.
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No, I didnt state that, I said:

Matty said:
yes. inexperience. which was my point :shrug:, get more experience. pass plus, skid pans, icy car parks :D are all good ways to learn how to control a car with less chance of sticking it in the hedge.
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Hatchbacks are great fun though, so thats not a bad thing, and yank cars dont do corners anyway, thats why they have such long flat roads..
 
matty said:
of the 3 times my car has been hit, 2 of them have been women, both under 25.

girls are safer drivers, they dont have so much testosterone...how much is your insurance, out of interest?

why would i be most likely to travel at 110 on the motorway while drunk?

uninsured morons still cause insurance payouts because if they hit someone who is fully comp it gets paid for, if the kill a hedge it nearly always comes from some insurance somewhere...
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Ok... good to know your personal stats, they don't change the fact thtaa men are more dangerous drivers statistically. Facts don't change because of personal experience. And if you don't mind I'd rather not broadcast my financials :p:

Young males are the most likely to crash, more die in this group than others too whole driving, but usually only kill themselves and their passengers. Women, age regardless, do have as many, some people say more accidents, but they tend to be pretty minor. Older men (over 25) are the most likely to kill somebody else, crash for crash. The 110 on the motorway while drunk was an example, not saying you personally are more likely :LOL:



Oh yea forgot, the thing is anyone with the mentality to drive without insurance is also the sort who don't always bother with MOTs, TAX, basic safety, or even a license, and are the most dangerous, and cause the "bad" stats to rise - unfortunately due to so many not bothering with tests etc, they won't have been taught to drive anyway. And a lot of those tend to be younger males, especially in cities.
 
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