Measuring cylinders

maninsuitcase

maninsuitcase

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Chris
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Having just been bitten on some Chinese cylinders (the 25ml was usable at +0.5ml but the 100ml and 500ml where a joke) I am once again in the market.

Having read the dilutions on the chems I plan to use it seems a 25, 100, 500 combo would be the ideal. Where would be a good place to get these for a reasonable price?
 
I've been using Paterson measuring cylinders for as long as I can remember (i.e. 1960s onwards) and find them fine.

My own most used ones are the very small cylinder to measure Rodinal (40cc usually) and the 1200cc size (my tanks take 1 litre). I have two or three of the 1200cc size, and some other smaller ones for measuring fixer etc.
 
.....just to add, what ever you choose I've found the ones with black markings easier to use, which might seem obvious but I accumulated some clear ones over many years and can't remember why I bought them :rolleyes:
 
I've had my fill of plastic, the polycarb ones go cloudy and the nylon ones fall to bits, both scratch and the scratches become contaminated, so rather than buying new plastic once a year.....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/pyrex


Not cheap I know, but unless you break them they'll last a long while.
 
But if you do drop them they'll explode and put little bits of glass into every crevasse wouldn't use them in the bathroom.
 
I've never had to rebuy Paterson ones, so I assume I don't use them as much as you do. Of the Pyrex ones, only the pair of 50ml would be of any use to me, and I only need one of them. I'm sufficiently concerned about accuracy to be wary of the beaker - too much surface area to height for me to be happy about the accuracy - and I need a minimum of 1l size anyway.

The only measure I have that does cause me concern is oddly enough a Pyrex one I use for cooking - the dark paint markings have worn off, so there's only a ghost left to measure with.
 
I'm curious what you're doing that needs so much accuracy? Surely ordinary developers like D76 or rodinal don't need any more accuracy than a kitchen measuring jug fit large quantities and a 10ml syringe for small measures?
 
I prefer to be as accurate as I possibly can be, to eliminate as many variables as possible. I generally use 40cc of Rodinal, and prefer to measure in one go rather than having four measurements to make with the effect of four times the error in measurement. Similarly with the larger volume of water - I just prefer to be as accurate as possible. I also use a mercury thermometer, certified to be accurate to within 1/5 degree, and have an identical one so that I can check them. And this is for black and white, not colour.

Possibly you think that this is over the top; but it's the way I've worked for over 50 years and it works. It might be worth mentioning that I have a degree in chemistry, and I was therefore trained to be as accurate as possible over measurements. It's second nature to seek to be as accurate and precise as I can be, and I approach my photography in this way. I'm not comfortable with a hand held camera either, as a tripod allows for more precision in framing.

The querstion of how much accuracy you need is an interesting one; I'm well aware of what you can get away with, both in processing and exposure, but I still prefer to use an exposure meter rather than just guess or follow the sunny 16 rule. It's the same principle.
 
No extra drip for good luck ??

I used to measure my ilfosol in a small washing powder graduate, it only went up to 50ml and I needed 55.5555555555ml for a 1+9 soup, so the 50ml mark got an extra splash and 2 drips...:D....for luck
 
There's accuracy and then there's accuracy.
Developing is bucket chemistry at it's finest, that's half the fun of it. Of course being accurate is great, but it's not always necessary.
 
As a rough approximation, then, you didn't add enough. One drop is about 1/20th ml (0.05) so you should have used about 11 to get there. That said, the measure I quoted is for water, and Ilfosol will more than likely have a different surface tension, so the number of drops will vary. If you'd care to measure the drop size, I'd be interested.
 
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robhooley167 said:
There's accuracy and then there's accuracy.
Developing is bucket chemistry at it's finest, that's half the fun of it. Of course being accurate is great, but it's not always necessary.
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Aye, my chemistry teacher was always scathing about "bucket chemists" - his phrase. He taught me for 5 years and some things did stick.
 
steveo_mcg said:
I'm curious what you're doing that needs so much accuracy? Surely ordinary developers like D76 or rodinal don't need any more accuracy than a kitchen measuring jug fit large quantities and a 10ml syringe for small measures?
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I've missed half this conversation but theres accuracy, and theres a "500ml +-5ml " measuring cylinder (which would have been close enough) measuring spot on at 500ml but being around 40ml out at 100ml as the cylinder isn't straight! edit: also forgot the printed and moulded markings where about 10-20ml different too....

As others have said accuracy isn't probably required, but for me it's removing a variable (and a large helping of pedantry). If I know I mixed a chem in 1 set equipment accurately I can mix it the same the next time and so get repeatable results.
 
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steveo_mcg said:
Plus or minus...
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A nominal 500ml can will almost certainly contain slightly more - the cost of an extra ml or so of beer (even when it's in millions of cans) is negligible compared to the negative publicity should one can be discovered to contain 1ml less than the stated capacity.

Surely, for ultimate accuracy, the measurement should be done by weight - volumes vary with temperature! As you say, Chris, repeatable results are what matters, hence the different times/dilutions preferred by different developers (as in people not soups!)
 
Nod said:
A nominal 500ml can will almost certainly contain slightly more - the cost of an extra ml or so of beer (even when it's in millions of cans) is negligible compared to the negative publicity should one can be discovered to contain 1ml less than the stated capacity.
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Pretty sure its the law, if it says a volume/weight then its a "at least" and if it's less then you're in trouble.

As for the wight, I doubt the difference in room temp is going to make a massive difference in volume but you do have a point.
 
Nod said:
Surely, for ultimate accuracy, the measurement should be done by weight - volumes vary with temperature!
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You'd have to know the density of your water and dev chemicals for that to be accurate.
 
maninsuitcase said:
I've missed half this conversation but theres accuracy, and theres a "500ml +-5ml " measuring cylinder (which would have been close enough) measuring spot on at 500ml but being around 40ml out at 100ml as the cylinder isn't straight! edit: also forgot the printed and moulded markings where about 10-20ml different too....

As others have said accuracy isn't probably required, but for me it's removing a variable (and a large helping of pedantry). If I know I mixed a chem in 1 set equipment accurately I can mix it the same the next time and so get repeatable results.
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Being massively out like that is different from ml accuracy though.
 
maninsuitcase said:
Pretty sure its the law, if it says a volume/weight then its a "at least" and if it's less then you're in trouble.

As for the wight, I doubt the difference in room temp is going to make a massive difference in volume but you do have a point.
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robhooley167 said:
You'd have to know the density of your water and dev chemicals for that to be accurate.
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I should have whacked a tongue in cheek smiley in there - for both comments!

However, reflecting on the weight one, any container could be used and could be fairly accurately marked at relevant capacities (at normal temperature) using weight of water as a set of data. Back when I did my own D&P, I had my cylinders marked up so I filled to one line with water then to the second with dev (and the same method for fixer). Just don't use red marker since it's all but invisible should you need to use it under safe lighting!!!
 
i just use electric scales in ml mode and weigh all my liquids out. Sure the chems might have slightly more density than water but in the amounts being used it makes no difference at all.
 
steveo_mcg said:
Being massively out like that is different from ml accuracy though.
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Yes but that's the reason I started this post. I bought cheap now I am buying twice, and would rather avoid thrice. Seller is trying to "resolve" the situation now. Not sure how they can other then sending me new kit, at which point a refund is cheaper to them.
 
maninsuitcase said:
Yes but that's the reason I started this post. I bought cheap now I am buying twice, and would rather avoid thrice. Seller is trying to "resolve" the situation now. Not sure how they can other then sending me new kit, at which point a refund is cheaper to them.
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To be fair you didn't say just how far out the larger cylinder was in the op.
 
essexash said:
i just use electric scales in ml mode and weigh all my liquids out. Sure the chems might have slightly more density than water but in the amounts being used it makes no difference at all.
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This has come up before, iirc Rodinal/R09 is approximately 1.3x the density of water so even the small quantities used in developing there can be a significant difference if you weigh your chems.
 
RaglanSurf said:
This has come up before, iirc Rodinal/R09 is approximately 1.3x the density of water so even the small quantities used in developing there can be a significant difference if you weigh your chems.
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But if you do the same thing every time there will be consistancy.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
But if you do the same thing every time there will be consistancy.


Steve.
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Agreed, but you do need to know what you're working with in the first place.
 
So inconclusion shall I just get a measuring jug which are cheap enough (£6 for a pyrex job) then a 10ml syringe for anything smaller?

Looking at getting D76 (probably at 1:1), Kodak Pro stop bath (which is 1:60) and Illford Rapid fixer (looks like 1:4). Will probably get some wash agent too but that would be about 1-2ml a time I think.

Add a few 40p measuring jugs to measure out the rough volume needed for the tank and jobs a goodun?
 
RaglanSurf said:
This has come up before, iirc Rodinal/R09 is approximately 1.3x the density of water so even the small quantities used in developing there can be a significant difference if you weigh your chems.
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Well ive never noticed a problem with things being under/over dev'd. It cant be any less accurate than using some plastic jug stamped out on a press in some 3rd world country. I take it they would of used, if any, water to calibrate the markings on a jug anyway?
 
essexash said:
I take it they would of used, if any, water to calibrate the markings on a jug anyway?
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It doesn't matter what they use as it's a measure of volume rather than weight so the density is irrelevant.

Most likely just calculated when drawn.


Steve.
 
maninsuitcase said:
So inconclusion shall I just get a measuring jug which are cheap enough (£6 for a pyrex job) then a 10ml syringe for anything smaller?

Looking at getting D76 (probably at 1:1), Kodak Pro stop bath (which is 1:60) and Illford Rapid fixer (looks like 1:4). Will probably get some wash agent too but that would be about 1-2ml a time I think.

Add a few 40p measuring jugs to measure out the rough volume needed for the tank and jobs a goodun?
Click to expand...

Its how I've stumbled through for the last two years or so. I think my jug may even be a tesco value one which is a right bugger to read.

Just a note, fixer is even less fussy for accuracy than developer. I usually just pour some fix concentrate in to a measuring jug and top off with water to the volume of the bottle I'm using to store it, the efficacy of the solution is easily tracked with a clip test every couple films.
 
New Pyrex beakers arived today from amazon, got a 500 and a 250 as they were reasonably priced.

After much trying to be nice to the seller I gave up and opened eBay cases which resulted in immediate 100% refunds. Lesson learnt is to not take any nonsence from chinese sellers it seems.
 
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