Millstreet Horse Show 2014

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Every year, usually in August, there is an international Horse show held in Millstreet, Co.Cork, Ireland.

It lasts for about 5 days and is a huge event with large prizes in most categories.

I spent 3 days there and took a large number of photographs, some of which can be viewed here:

Millstreet Horse Show 2014

I'll be adding more (a lot more) as I edit them.
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This forum is for sharing photos not links..

It becomes a bit of a farce when people respond with comments on pictures we cant see or have to keep going back and forth... just post some of your best for feedback:)
 
This forum is for sharing photos not links..

It becomes a bit of a farce when people respond with comments on pictures we cant see or have to keep going back and forth... just post some of your best for feedback:)

I understand that but I just posted a link so members could take a look if they wanted I wasn't really looking for a critique but can do.



The weather alternated between heavy downpours and bright sunshine - was really glad I'd brought an umbrella!
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couple of them slightly skewif and need a little straigtening ..deffo the last one.. would like to see all riders faces.. otherwise loverly colours and nice shots:)
 
couple of them slightly skewif and need a little straigtening ..deffo the last one.. would like to see all riders faces.. otherwise loverly colours and nice shots:)
Thanks for that KIPAX, it's a really great show; 5 days and all free even the rain - and I've got hundreds more yet to finish so will post up a few more as I finish them. :)
 
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Rain shot is very different ... works well :)
 
I would experiment with a larger aperture to blur some of the 'busy' background. What lens were you using?
 
I would experiment with a larger aperture to blur some of the 'busy' background. What lens were you using?

The lens was my 70-300mm L lens with exposures set at about 1/800 and the aperture varying around f8-f16.

Unfortunately the action distance meant that I was shooting between 135mm and 300mm and I still had quite a few OOF shots so using a smaller aperture would have resulted in even more.

Mostly I didn't try to track the horses but simply focussed on a point on the ground where I estimated they would be in the air so needed a smallish aperture for DOF - even so the DOF only extends about a 1-2 ft so a wider aperture would have given me even more OOF shots.

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I would look to move to Canon 70-200mm f2.8 or Sigma 120-300mm which I have used at shows like this and like because f2.8 blurs the background nicely.
 
I would look to move to Canon 70-200mm f2.8 or Sigma 120-300mm which I have used at shows like this and like because f2.8 blurs the background nicely.

The problem with head on shots of horses at f/2.8 is that even at 30 feet away, 200mmm @ f/2.8 gives you a depth of field of just over a foot so the horses nose is in focus and the riders face is out of focus...............not ideal!
 
The problem with head on shots of horses at f/2.8 is that even at 30 feet away, 200mmm @ f/2.8 gives you a depth of field of just over a foot so the horses nose is in focus and the riders face is out of focus...............not ideal!

Exactly the reason I shot at the apertures I did.
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I would look to move to Canon 70-200mm f2.8 or Sigma 120-300mm which I have used at shows like this and like because f2.8 blurs the background nicely.

Why would I pay out for the Sigma when my own lens covers more than that range or for the 70-200mm which actually decreases the usable range and would cost me a great deal more and all for nothing?

I actually could have done with MORE range not less especially at the long end, so when I have saved up some pennies may be taking a serious look at the 100-400mm.

In fact there was a professional there using a Nikon taking about 10 fps (what a beautiful sound!) who was using 300mm with an extender to get the range.
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Hi Peter,

Just sharing my own experience, I prefer some background blur, just personal preference and not looking to offend anyone.

If I can stand in the ring, then the reach is not so much of an issue. Most of the guys and girls I have seen shooting at equestrian events use 70-200mm but then they can shoot in the ring. Having said that, and it is normally possible to get close enough to the action without having to be in the ring.

Admirables comment is quite correct if you are only shooting front on. For dressage one normally shoots at 90 degrees to show the confirmation of the horse. In the case both heads will be in focus. For jumping I would pick a shallow angle with the horses and rider looking to turn towards me just after the jump. The leaning of the rider forward and angle minimise the distance between both heads and allow for a shot that I am happy with and that has background blur.

BTW I have shot with a 100-400mm and found it to be really good as well.
 
In fact I was shooting both front on, sideways on and a combination of both.

At Millstreet you are certainly NOT allowed in any of the rings (about 8 in all including the international arena) so have to try to pick a spot where it is most advantageous which can be difficult with many hundreds of spectators, riders, attendants etc.

But I am very pleased with the way many shots came out and will definitely be going there again next year if possible - and the fact that it is set in some beautiful countryside is a great bonus.
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You sound a little defensive peter and I actually agree with corny the 70-200 2.8 is built for this job perfectly. I don't use mine on 2.8 though, my aperture for equestrian is around f4 but the optics in the 70-200 2.8 are second to none- it's in a different league to the lens you've used for these shots. I've never shot equestrian on f8 certainly never f16. fwiw I use aperture priority set at f4 and let the camera sort out shutter speeds, just keep an eye on them if they are too low (under 1/1000) use a wider aperture.
 
You sound a little defensive peter and I actually agree with corny the 70-200 2.8 is built for this job perfectly. I don't use mine on 2.8 though, my aperture for equestrian is around f4 but the optics in the 70-200 2.8 are second to none- it's in a different league to the lens you've used for these shots. I've never shot equestrian on f8 certainly never f16. fwiw I use aperture priority set at f4 and let the camera sort out shutter speeds, just keep an eye on them if they are too low (under 1/1000) use a wider aperture.

I'm not defensive at all I was just explaining the situation at Millstreet.

However I do notice that both you and corny have crop cameras with a factor of 1.6 which means that your 200mm lens has an apparent reach of 320mm which may explain why you find it suitable.

But I use a FF camera which means that my 300mm is, in fact, slightly less than your lens.

And as already explained I used a smaller aperture because at 300mm the DOF is quite small whereas at 200mm it will be a bit more.

I'm not quite sure why you say the 70-200 L f2.8 is in a different league to a 70-300mm L lens because to me there seems to be minimal difference in quality:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...meraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=3
 
The 70-200 is favoured by most equestrian event togs use purely because of its capabilities in low light conditions. I didn't buy it because I have a crop camera, if I had full frame I would still use it. And the fact that I am normally in the ring although have taken some cracking shots outside the ring with my 70-200/7d combo.

I think maybe if you track the horse in, set your aperture at f4 and let the camera sort out shutter speeds you would have a slightly better image with better DOF.
 
I think that you actually mean that you were using a smaller aperture because you were using a wildly inaccurate focusing technique?

Prefocusing on fences is one thing (although I tend to avoid it wherever possible unless blind-sighted) but prefocusing on a random point on the ground is a touch bizarre.

There are many reasons for using a narrow aperture, but poor focusing technique isn't one of them. Your best bet would be to track.

As Twizzel and corny have said, a 70-200/2.8 is pretty much the base level lens for equestrian photography, especially from an event photography point of view.
For editorial, I'll use anything from 15mm to 500mm.

The reason why the 70-200 would be better that your 70-300 is purely down to the max aperture of your lens. Wider aperture means that AF is faster and more accurate. Quality has nothing to do with it.

As for stopping down, the narrowest aperture that I'd use for EQ work would be f/8 but that would be with a clear background and wanting to pull the sky in. Otherwise I'm at f/4-f/5.6.
F/16 is far too tight.

As for the set of photographs, having looked on Flickr, I'm afraid to say that I'm not that impressed.

There is very little selection in the set and it appears that you have uploaded every single frame in each sequence without regard to timing or conformation of the horse.
There are several frames that need straightening and the framing needs much more attention to detail in that you have cropped random body parts
(noses, hooves, tails etc) and missed the ground line on several shots where it would have been better left in.

You need to show the horses in one of three positions (according to taste & use): on the rise to a fence having taken off, breasting the fence, on the descent before landing.
Pictures of the approach and departure are rarely used and to be honest normally show the animal poorly, unless on the first stride of a recover to gallop on an XC course.

As for flat work, configuration of the stride is everything.

Out of your set of 123, I'd say that only 23 were really worth showing and that number would probably halve to avoid showing more than one shot of a combination at a fence.
Of those however, most are crippled by too narrow a DoF (as mentioned above) and some frankly quite weird processing with too higher black level and too much contrast.


The above is all based on your claim to be an ex-professional photographer btw, because there are errors in there that should never have seen the light of day (wonky shots, amputations etc).
 
I think that you actually mean that you were using a smaller aperture because you were using a wildly inaccurate focusing technique?

Prefocusing on fences is one thing (although I tend to avoid it wherever possible unless blind-sighted) but prefocusing on a random point on the ground is a touch bizarre.

Not at all - back in the day pre-focussing on the ground was an accepted technique in many sports ( cycling, rallying, racing (horse and car)) simply because we did not have auto focus on the lenses and cameras available then.

So, since I wanted to try and get both the horse and rider in focus I prefocussed on the ground in front of (my front) the fence - that may have been ambiguous I realise depending how you read it.

There are many reasons for using a narrow aperture, but poor focusing technique isn't one of them. Your best bet would be to track.

My technique might be different to yours but that doesn't mean that it is wrong - if by tracking you mean following a horse with the camera then tracking would achieve nothing with the horse jumping straight on to me.

As Twizzel and corny have said, a 70-200/2.8 is pretty much the base level lens for equestrian photography, especially from an event photography point of view.
For editorial, I'll use anything from 15mm to 500mm.

Well I am not a professional photographer any more just an enthusiastic amateur and I did not cover the Millstreet show for any other reason than that I wanted to and I used the equipment I have available as an amateur.

And I don't use a 70-200mm f 2.8 simply because I don't have one (and certainly don't need one) and as I have already said there was a professional there using an extender on his 300mm Nikon lens to get the reach.

As for the set of photographs, having looked on Flickr, I'm afraid to say that I'm not that impressed.

There is very little selection in the set and it appears that you have uploaded every single frame in each sequence without regard to timing or conformation of the horse.
There are several frames that need straightening and the framing needs much more attention to detail in that you have cropped random body parts
(noses, hooves, tails etc) and missed the ground line on several shots where it would have been better left in.

Fortunately I wasn't trying to impress anyone just putting up the shots I had taken which had come out reasonably - and they are not every single frame - quite a lot were left out because of blur, OOF etc.

And you are quite right in the errors in some of the frames, unfortunately whichever way I cropped some they still looked wrong because of sloping ground and fences also sloping etc - things beyond my scope to correct.

But I would love to see your shots of horses though.
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Not at all - back in the day pre-focussing on the ground was an accepted technique in many sports ( cycling, rallying, racing (horse and car)) simply because we did not have auto focus on the lenses and cameras available then.

So, since I wanted to try and get both the horse and rider in focus I prefocussed on the ground in front of (my front) the fence - that may have been ambiguous I realise depending how you read it.

I hate to point this out, but it's 2014, not back in the day and if you are going to prefocus, you do it on the fence, not the ground in front of it.


My technique might be different to yours but that doesn't mean that it is wrong - if by tracking you mean following a horse with the camera then tracking would achieve nothing with the horse jumping straight on to me.

Most modern equipment is perfectly capable of tracking head on subjects and yup, I'm afraid to say that if you need f/8-f/16 to ensure that your subject is in focus, then that is poor technique and it's wrong.


And I don't use a 70-200mm f 2.8 simply because I don't have one (and certainly don't need one) and as I have already said there was a professional there using an extender on his 300mm Nikon lens to get the reach.

I think that's the third or fourth reason that you've used to argue against a 70-200 and you are still missing the point. It's the maximum aperture that's the important part, not the focal length.

But I would love to see your shots of horses though.

I'll offer you the same courtesy that you've offered everyone on this board...

...they're on my website.
 
I hate to point this out, but it's 2014, not back in the day and if you are going to prefocus, you do it on the fence, not the ground in front of it.

Already explained.

Most modern equipment is perfectly capable of tracking head on subjects and yup, I'm afraid to say that if you need f/8-f/16 to ensure that your subject is in focus, then that is poor technique and it's wrong.

Not as far as I'm concerned!

I think that's the third or fourth reason that you've used to argue against a 70-200 and you are still missing the point. It's the maximum aperture that's the important part, not the focal length.

I'm not missing any point but since I don't actually own one - I think it is you who is missing the point which is I don't actually own one!

I'll offer you the same courtesy that you've offered everyone on this board...

...they're on my website.

And that is?

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Peter I think Demilion has hit it on the head here and if you weren't so defensive you'd see he's actually offering spot on advice! Professional or not your images still need tweaking and the main issue is the aperture but if you want to carry on shooting high speed sports at f16 then go for it...
 
Peter I think Demilion has hit it on the head here and if you weren't so defensive you'd see he's actually offering spot on advice! Professional or not your images still need tweaking and the main issue is the aperture but if you want to carry on shooting high speed sports at f16 then go for it...

Since i already said I'm not being defensive I don't quite know why you keep saying that.

I'm just explaining, or trying to, my point of view and that I shot the way I did for the reasons I stated.

And as already stated these days I am just an enthusiastic amateur and do not claim to be a professional photographer.

You see that icon in my signature block....

...try clicking on it!

What signature block?

None showing.

EDIT:Finally found it.
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Well I've finally seen some of your horse pics and some of them are quite good, but quite a few show the same "problems" with blur as mine do - in fact the only ones with a really good blur is when there is a great deal of distance between the horses and the background.

So I feel your criticism of mine on that count is rather unfair especially as it is obvious from many of my pictures that there is not much separation of the horses and the spectators.

But never mind - perhaps when the next 1000 or so go up there may be some you will like :D:plus1:

Anyway for the moment I feel that I have said all I can and that anything else will be simply re-hashing what has already been said.

So for me, at least, life is far too short for that.
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Well I've finally seen some of your horse pics and some of them are quite good, but quite a few show the same "problems" with blur as mine do - in fact the only ones with a really good blur is when there is a great deal of distance between the horses and the background.

So I feel your criticism of mine on that count is rather unfair especially as it is obvious from many of my pictures that there is not much separation of the horses and the spectators.

Hmmmm. I'm not sure that you understand what is going on in those photographs then.

A lot of them are PR shots, where the intention is to show people using trade stands, as spectators and also the location (the House) on behalf of the event.
The Rodeo shots (at f/4) deliberately show spectator reaction.
The ditch at Badminton, again is shot at f/8 to include the crowd as an atmospheric filler.
Two shots were at f/11 and f/18 the arena at Badminton and the flashed shot respectively. Again, both deliberate. The first to show the entire arena and bring the sky in, the second to allow contra jour.

All very different from shooting action pics of SJ.
 
I've only shot one horse related event and that was Jousting at a Medieval Festival but I know I wouldn't have liked to be relying on prefocusing on any spot :\ I'm sure you can still get great shots with it and it was probably what was required in the past but it would drive me nuts lol

I can't vouch for the AF performance on your camera/lens since I haven't used either but personally I'd definitely want to be using AF here.
 
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