Mr and Mrs Dung fly; and some questions about posting here

[GardenersHelper]

Later on I have some questions. Hopefully any responses to them may help others like me who might be thinking about whether and what sort of image they might post here.

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There aren't many insects around at the moment, but several days ago I was wandering around in the garden looking for little flowers, berries, buds etc to photograph when I spotted a fly (a male Dung fly I think, Scathophaga stercoraria) on a Choisya bush. It stuck around for about 4 minutes, moving and showing me its other side part way through, so I had time to line up and capture several captures from each side. The first image is from that encounter.

A couple of hours later, on the same bush, it (or another of its sort) was back and remained visible, moving about from time to time, for a bit more than 20 minutes, along briefly with what may have been a female of the same species. The other five images are from this second encounter.

I used a Panasonic FZ200 small sensor bridge camera with a Raynox 150 close-up lens on a tripod, using a remote shutter release. All used natural light. Exposures were from 1/10 to 1/20 sec using the smallest aperture of f/8, equivalent to about f/22 for an APS-C dSLR in terms of increased dof and reduced sharpness/detail. Post processing was done in Lightroom, apart from resizing and sharpening, which was done in CS2.

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I have been following the Campaign for Critique thread with considerable interest and am well aware that this is a critique forum and six images is too many for critique. But rather than primarily looking for critique I mainly wanted to share these with other people who are into this sort of thing, (and in this case also to share the fact that, rather surprisingly, there are some subjects around even now), and if anyone is interested, to discuss the techniques used to capture and process the images, and associated issues, problems, options and workarounds.

So, while any critique would of course be welcome, that isn't my primary concern. Given that, posting them in the Photos for Pleasure forum might be more appropriate. However, I suspected that people interested in close-ups/macros like these would be more likely to notice them here. So that is what I did.

I do quite like posting several images at a time, whether of the same or different subjects. However, is six too many at once for this forum, even if posted more for sharing and practical discussion than critique? And in any case, would you prefer to keep this forum clear for critique, with perhaps just single images posted here? If that is the general feeling I'll think again: I could either post occasional single images here, or post multiple images in Photos for Pleasure. Or perhaps a single image here and a link to more like it over at Flickr. (Although in my experience it seems that most people don't click to go off-site.)

I'm thinking of doing a similar post (four images) of a shield bug I found in the next door neighbour's garden the same afternoon. Do do you think it would best be posted here or in the Photos for Pleasure forum?

I'm also curious to know if there is any interest in images like the second one here and even more so the fifth one, where the subject is rather small in the image, showing the subject in its environment. For my taste this sort of image can produce some of the most eye-pleasing results, but I believe most people prefer close-in shots concentrating tightly on the subject, or a part of the subject in even greater detail. So another question: are you at all interested in these more "environmental" shots? If not I'll know not to post such shots in future.

I have some images of small flowers, buds and berries from the same day. Similar questions arise, about the number and type of images to post, some of which are more of the "subject small in the frame" and a bit artsy type of thing, with colours, textures and shapes playing a larger role (to my way of seeing) than ultra-sharp fine detail. Do you have any views about what type of plant pictures, if any, you would prefer to see here?

(For 1100 pixel high versions click on an image then right click and select "Original")


0518 29 2014_01_19 P1170299-Edit PS1 PSS3 - Edit2 Ex Dung fly by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0518 30 2014_01_19 P1170306-Edit PS1 PSS3 - Edit2 Ex Dung fly by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0518 48 2014_01_19 P1170412-Edit PS1 PSS3 - Edit2 Ex Dung fly by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0518 33 2014_01_19 P1170320-Edit PS1 PSS3 - Edit2 Ex Dung fly by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0518 40 2014_01_19 P1170360-Edit PS1 PSS3 - Edit2 Ex Dung fly by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0518 43 2014_01_19 P1170373-Edit PS1 PSS3 - Edit2 Ex Dung fly by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

 

[LCPete]

Hi Nick will have to be a quick reply im at work will reply properly later
Anyway I think that six is too much for detailed crit but for what you have done asking for what sort of shot works its fine
Great shots btw

 

[Solo man]

I rarely look in the 'photos for pleasure' section, and wouldn't expect to see macro shots in there....
And, your set is very good, I especially like number 2.

 

[LCPete]

I think this is the right place for practical discussion as there's not that many people that do macro and it's best to keep it all in one place
It's better also because discussion naturally follows on from c&c

Technique discussion is an excellent idea may start a thread about it

I do like environmental shot's as part of a set of shots like you've done but normally like to fill the frame
But something like a butterfly on a flower or stem as an environmental shot is great and something im going to try more

Best thing tho is just to post pics that you like rather than try to conform to any rules or convention
BTW the last shot is wonderful beautiful light I guess back lit?
It does work better than the one before the environmental one I think to be honest the leaf its on isn't interesting enough to add to the shot

As for what's important in macro shots definitely nice light composition and interesting subject rather than absolute sharpness

 

[GardenersHelper]

Thanks for the feedback Lee and Pete. That is very useful, and encouraging too.

Yes Pete, the sun was low and behind the subjects for all these shots, although the sunlight was not generally direct as it was filtering through branches and foliage. It may of course have been momentarily direct as gaps opened up and closed again. One of the things I really like about the male of this species is the wonderful way the light can work on all those hairs. Mind you, I think the female can sometimes look pretty good too. Or perhaps I just like the look of flies.


0358 08 2011_05_19 IMG_7167 PS1b LebtDf7x30LebSaCuExCuCr900hSS74x0.3 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

This one is a long way from filling the frame, so presumably it might count as an environmental shot. But I do take (and sometimes quite like) shots from much further out. These are often part of a series, like this for example; I do lots of this sort of thing (not just with flies btw!)


0414 73 2012_05_04 P1290807 PS1 ClExCrDf7x30Cu900hSS76x0.3 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0414 74 2012_05_04 P1290817 PS1 ClCrExDf7x30Cu900hSS88x0.3 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


0414 75 2012_05_04 P1290812 PS1 CrClExDf7x30Cu900hSS107x0.3 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

Achromats are particularly well suited for this type of series because you can capture images of different magnification/framing without moving the camera (depending on the way the achromat is attached and/or the magnification - I have my achromats fitted so that I can change the framing without moving the camera no matter what the magnification). You can zoom in and out to your hearts content reframing/capturing/waiting for something especially tasty to appear on the screen; breeze, changes in lighting, subject movement, arrival of other subjects and interactions between subjects can all play into this.

I included #4, the one before the environmental shot, just because it was one of only two shots I had of (what I believe is) the female. The other one was more environmental ...


0518 32 2014_01_19 P1170319-Edit PS1 PSS3 - Edit2 Ex Dung fly by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

so I chose to post the one that I thought would be more of interest - the more detailed, closer-up one.

 

[Solo man]

Thanks for the feedback Lee and Pete. That is very useful, and encouraging too.

Yes Pete, the sun was low and behind the subjects for all these shots, although the sunlight was not generally direct as it was filtering through branches and foliage. It may of course have been momentarily direct as gaps opened up and closed again. One of the things I really like about the male of this species is the wonderful way the light can work on all those hairs. Mind you, I think the female can sometimes look pretty good too. Or perhaps I just like the look of flies.


0358 08 2011_05_19 IMG_7167 PS1b LebtDf7x30LebSaCuExCuCr900hSS74x0.3 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

This one is a long way from filling the frame, so presumably it might count as an environmental shot. But I do take (and sometimes quite like) shots from much further out. These are often part of a series, like this for example; I do lots of this sort of thing (not just with flies btw!)


0414 73 2012_05_04 P1290807 PS1 ClExCrDf7x30Cu900hSS76x0.3 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


I included #4, the one before the environmental shot, just because it was one of only two shots I had of (what I believe is) the female. The other one was more environmental ...


0518 32 2014_01_19 P1170319-Edit PS1 PSS3 - Edit2 Ex Dung fly by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

so I chose to post the one that I thought would be more of interest - the more detailed, closer-up one.

Of your last set, I really like these three.... the colours, light and quality of your images are very good.

 

[GardenersHelper]

Of your last set, I really like these three.... the colours, light and quality of your images are very good.

Thanks Lee. I'm really interested that you chose ones from further out. That's unusual in my experience. It gives me confidence to include more of them in the mix in future.


Talking of unusual, Pete, looking back I just noticed this, which didn't register first time round.

As for what's important in macro shots definitely nice light composition and interesting subject rather than absolute sharpness

Like Lee's point of view, I find that very refreshing. On both counts it turns out I'm not alone! Happy bunny.

 

[LCPete]

Really interesting the way you work Nick with different gear but the results speak for themselves just shows that it's the light and subject that's important
The light on these is really good
I actually like dungflies they can look good in nice light and they have saved me from a blank trip a couple of times when I couldn't find anything else
Do like the environmental shots on grass stems
Im hoping to find some butterflies ect on interesting grass seed heads this summer

 

[GardenersHelper]

Really interesting the way you work Nick with different gear but the results speak for themselves just shows that it's the light and subject that's important
The light on these is really good
I actually like dungflies they can look good in nice light and they have saved me from a blank trip a couple of times when I couldn't find anything else
Do like the environmental shots on grass stems
Im hoping to find some butterflies ect on interesting grass seed heads this summer

Thanks Pete. I hope you find cooperative subjects in good positions. I find butterflies really difficult. It has to do with their size and behaviour and my gear; I lack something that lets me work with a large enough working distance for subjects of butterfly size. Environmental shots of butterflies are fine - I can take off the achromats and simply use plenty of zoom, working at a distance of about a metre. But I also want shots where the subject fills a good proportion of the frame, and I find this problematic with butterflies.

I can fill as much of the frame as I want with a butterfly when using my weakest achromat, but that puts me about 12-14 inches away from the subject. The butterflies I encounter seem to be rather jumpy and prone to fly off at that distance, at least during the day. Early and late in the day they may well be more prone to sit around, but I don't seem to encounter them then.

The working distance is fine when not using an achromat, but even at the minimum working distance of about a metre butterflies don't fill enough of the frame for my liking. I can crop of course, but I'm using a small sensor camera (and one with a notoriously noisy sensor btw), so I don't want to crop too much.

The other problem I have with butterflies is speed. I mainly see them on warm days, but the ones I see seem to fly in, settle very briefly, then fly off far enough for it to be difficult for me to follow them and catch up in time to frame a shot. Out on the reserves the food plants are spread out over quite wide areas - so setting up in one place and waiting for a visitor is beyond my tolerance for waiting around. I went out one (pretty hot) day last year to a site with loads of butterflies flitting around, and got precisely no usable shots. Something I need to work on I think.

Incidentally, dragonflies and damselflies can present similar problems, although I more often find them sitting around long enough for my purposes during the day, and in early morning sessions on the nature reserves I quite often find damselflies that haven't started moving around yet. In contrast crane flies, which are a rather similar size, are quite easy. They seem very disinclined to move no matter how close I get and how much I disturb their perch. It makes me wonder how they survive actually - I would have thought it made them easy prey. Still, they have been around a lot longer than we have, so they have obviously found a way of being that works out over the long term.

 

[tommy bro]

class mate

 

[GardenersHelper]

Thanks Thomas.

 

[Metalkoi]

This is the sort of shots that i like,its good to see the subject in its enviroment,hope to capture a lot like these this year as i now have some decent tkit to use

Andy

 

[GardenersHelper]

Thanks Andy. More encouragement for the environmental shots. This is great.

I hope the weather leaves us all with a decent range of subject matter later in the year; it's a bit iffy, so fingers crossed.

I look forward to seeing your work in the coming months with the Nikon 105 Macro 2.8, which I've been reading is a very, very nice lens.