My final LRPS panel selection

Thanks for all your kind words and support guys. It really does mean a lot to me. This result has dissapointed me greatly, and I think the fact that my photography has been riding the crest of a wave for the last year (Well 356 days today) has made this failure hurt all the more.

Im in two minds as to whether im going to attempt the LRPS again. I suspect I will, but I want to see the notes first. If I deem the comments as fair and just then I will go for a second attempt. However if I see the judgement as unjust or highly subjective then I suspect I will be canceling my RPS membership. It might sound like im being a soor loser, and maybe I am, but I have paid a lot of money to be a member and attempt a LRPS and I genuinly believe my work is of a high enough standard (In addition to following all the RPS guidance). I also have mixed feelings as to how credible the society is, as some of the panels that passed (Not only LRPS, but ARPS and even FRPS) I don't believe hold great technical or artistic merit. But anyway, im not going to pass judgment until I get the full panel notes. In the meantime, this is what Margaret Salisbury posted on the RPS forum;

Hi
I am really sorry your Panel was "not recommended" but John is correct in saying you will get detailed Feedback from me as soon as I can complete the forms which I brought home with me today. It will take me some time but we usually get the forms to the Applicants within a month of the Assessment.

You will also get offer of "one to one help" from a Panel Member but initially you will be given my details (email and phone number) so you may contact me to request this. Often it is enough to read the "feedback form" and/or to talk to me, establish where the standard needs lifting and take up the suggestions made and you can of course try again paying half the fee for the second attempt. If you need or ask for more help, one of us (usually Chairman or one of the Assessors from the day your Panel was Assessed) will help you as much or for as long as you need it. Who will help and how will be decided when I speak to you.

You may know that we now have a new Chairman of the Panel - Leo Palmer who is from Northumberland joins John and I, the three of us share the Chairing of the Panels. We have Panel Members from all over the country so we can usually put potential or unsuccessful Applicants in touch with someone in their area or someone who is "expert" in the particular type of photography the Applicant is interested in using in the submission. The panel which met this week consisted of Members from: North Wales, Northern Ireland, Bristol, Somerset, Southampton, Midlands. Workshops are also run in all parts of UK.

Without looking at my notes or the Marking Forms in detail I can tell you that your Panel was a "near miss" and although I can appreciate it is difficult for those looking at your panel here to know why you were unsuccessful I will again reiterate that what you see on the screen is often very different from what you see when the images are projected on a large screen.

Again I am sorry you were not successful this time but with help and some work on the weak points I am positive you will be successful next time.

Margaret
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That doesn't really add a great deal of information, but at least it was a nice email. As for;

what you see on the screen is often very different from what you see when the images are projected on a large screen
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Im not convinced. Maybe im being simple and thinking too literally here, but surely if both the screen and projector are calibrated properly, then there shouldn't be any difference in the way the image appears. :shrug:
 
Messiah Khan said:
Thanks for all your kind words and support guys. It really does mean a lot to me. This result has dissapointed me greatly, and I think the fact that my photography has been riding the crest of a wave for the last year (Well 356 days today) has made this failure hurt all the more.

Im in two minds as to whether im going to attempt the LRPS again. I suspect I will, but I want to see the notes first. If I deem the comments as fair and just then I will go for a second attempt. However if I see the judgement as unjust or highly subjective then I suspect I will be canceling my RPS membership. It might sound like im being a soor loser, and maybe I am, but I have paid a lot of money to be a member and attempt a LRPS and I genuinly believe my work is of a high enough standard (In addition to following all the RPS guidance). I also have mixed feelings as to how credible the society is, as some of the panels that passed (Not only LRPS, but ARPS and even FRPS) I don't believe hold great technical or artistic merit. But anyway, im not going to pass judgment until I get the full panel notes. In the meantime, this is what Margaret Salisbury posted on the RPS forum;



That doesn't really add a great deal of information, but at least it was a nice email. As for;



Im not convinced. Maybe im being simple and thinking too literally here, but surely if both the screen and projector are calibrated properly, then there shouldn't be any difference in the way the image appears. :shrug:
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I think you need to step back a bit from this MK, and spend some time reflecting. You may be down, but definitely not out, and you are young (and skilled) enough to bounce back.

It was never going to be a walk in the park, and when you finally achieve LRPS status (and I know you will) it will taste so much sweeter when you get there.


On a technical note, screen and projector images are different, on a couple of occasions I've been invited to camera clubs to give informal presentations, on both times I took a good quality digital projector (borrowed from work), and on some images it picked out flaws that were not obvious on computer screen or print-particular large highlight areas.
 
Alasdair

Gutted for you. I think your work is very much of a high standard. I can see the potential issue with the projection. When you are looking at a monitor, it is a (almost) black screen, that gets brighter when images are passed shown. A projection screen is very different and can make whites and blacks look different. Sounds like bad luck to me.

I am putting a panel together at the moment and have decided to go for prints as that is what they are used to - a decision reinforced by your experience. At least then, you can be sure how the images are presented...

I think you should listen to the feedback and then try again. I don't think you will need much tweaking and you should have another shot. It is always subjective - creative art is - and I think you should take the feedback onboard and have another bash.

It doesn't say you are a bad photographer, just that they found some elements of it that weren't what they were looking for. It's always a problem with a panel that the picture they judge as weakest is the one that impacts the whole set.

Good luck and keep yer chin up!

Paul
 
Unlucky MK. I think these photos are pretty decent and you must have caught the judges on a bad day. My mother-in-law got her LRPS last year and I think her work is nowhere near as good as yours.

Here's a funny thing though.
...the main reason was that when projected, the infra red shot of the church had blank sky at the top and the Panel felt this let the picture down.
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So the wonky horizon was OK then?
 
I missed the comment about the projector on OCUK mate but it makes a bit more sense now. It's a real shame that the method of presentation has let down and otherwise brilliant set of images.

Maybe a printed series for the next submission?

Panzer
 
I do feel disappointed for you, but I would agree with Les, step back, wait for their comments and then see how you feel.
 
what you see on the screen is often very different from what you see when the images are projected on a large screen
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That doesn't have anything to do with the quality of photographs or your skill in photography. I'm going to be waiting for the detailed comments :)
 
MK - I know it won't help but this is just the sort of bloody ridiculous state of affairs that makes every thought of my joining the RPS, let alone going for a distinction, disappear in a flash

At our club we have an LRPS member - they qualified 'automatically' due to some coursework at A-level (I think it was), I and others pressured them for a presentation night to show us plebs how to achieve such a distinction... upshot...

You guessed it - my 10 yr old could have put together a more convincing set of images with his mobile phone's camera

We were all stunned, and for all the wrong reasons

I'm both gutted and angered for you m8

DD
 
Sorry you did not achieve your goal MK, for me your work has always been top grade. I totally understand your disappointment but i think you have to get back in there and prove them wrong.

regards brian.
 
I just had a look at the RPS website and the results of the April 2008 submissions are published.
There were about 30 who submitted prints, only one who submitted slides and 5 who submitted on CD.
It makes me wonder if you had submitted prints the result may have been different as it looks to be heavily biased towards print. (You would need to know the total submissions mix to draw then conclusion but it does make me wonder)
 
Thanks for your continued support everyone. The critique sheet turned up yesterday. Had some very mixed emotions when reading it. A couple of points I agree on (I sometimes do tend to clog the shadows up during my processing), but overall they are pointing out 'faults' that I do not agree with at all. Some areas they claim are 'burnt out' are not at all, and I can back this up with the histogram. Below is a scan of the comment sheet. The highlighted sections are the ones I failed or was picked up on.

img003.jpg


Im going to email Margaret Salisbury at some point and hopefully discuss the judgement with her. Im still very much in two minds as to whether I should try again or cancel my RPS membership.
 
OUCH!! Though tbh, I think they are being a little over critical. As Dave mentioned earlier, I could have got LRPS 12 years ago when I was doing a C&G course in photography by completing 5 modules.... I didnt, [my ex sold my camera, long story] but point is, passing all 5 modules, instead of the two I got would have automatically qualified me, based on the opinion of a couple of college tutors - madness!!

Its not much consolation, but I think most people round here agree that for someone that only picked up a camera a year ago, your work is astonishingly good and makes many of us very jealous indeed. ;)
 
The critique sheet does seem a bit harsh, it does not really explain why in my eyes.
 
It does seem a little harsh imho, especially the "blown highlight" issue.:(

However, I think it would be a real shame if you did not try again MK, as I believe your work is clearly of a high enough standard overall.

Put this down to experience, go grab your camera and knock 'em dead next time.(y)
 
She seems to be saying they projected your images onto a screen, I suppose if the projector was bright then it could have given the impression that some parts of 1 and 9 were blown, at first glance on my pc 1 seems to have a blown patch top centre above the roof but when you zoom in on it there is detail there. Likewise the very top of 9 is very light but not quite blown on my screen and certainly seems to flow well enough, though I suppose you could crop a couple of mm off the top without ruining it.,

I'd ask her to point out the sections specifically that they had a problem with and if you don't agree ask them to re-examine if they will.

I do agree to an extent about the continuity issue, there are a couple of sections in your panel between 5 and 8 that don't quite flow as much as the rest.
That said I've seen some examples of passing lrps panels in the past that were imo shockingly bad but that's just my opinion.
 
I think you need to ask yourself why and how much you really want the LRPS. Judging by your reaction to the result, it seems that you do want it (or you wouldn't be so disappointed/offended) so it would be a shame if you didn't try again. You'd just continue reflect on not getting it, which may impact your future work. As the sheet says you are a "very near miss" so suck it up, take on their points and prove to them that you have the dedication to handle critisim and constantly refine your work if needed. Learn from the experience and use it to make you a stronger and better photographer. I challange you to find a photographer that hasn't been turned down for something be it a qualifiction (which at the end of the day count for very little), award or job!

Best of luck.
 
Sorry you got turned down MK. I'm not really sure why you're seeking this, or why it's so important to you, but clearly it is. If you really want it then gird your loins and get back in there, but I'd suggest prints next time where you have absolute control over what the panel will judge you on.

What I do like about the RPS is that they place a lot of store on traditional technical merit, which tends to be overlooked a lot these days. Having said that I've known a couple of members in the past who I wouldn't trust to take a shot of my dog. That's not a criticism of the RPS, just on the selection process sometimes, but no system is foolproof, so we shouldn't hold that against them.

Gaining an RPS entry at any level isn't going to do anything for you quite honestly if your sights are set on a career in photography. Clients don't give a rat's ass about qualifications - just what they see for themselves. It's a bit like turning up for an audition for lead guitar player with a rock group and waving your Grade 8 certificate at them. They'd laugh their socks off - they just want to know if you can play. ;)
 
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