Nikon D40 VS. Sony A200... Best For Beginner Like Me?

Thats just the point.....

You turn your camera off, then sensor is cleaned. The you change lenses, thus allowing dust to enter the mirror box. The camera is then turned back on and you start taking pictures with no additional cleaning taking place.

The Oly way of doing things means that the sensor is cleaned after every lens change and before shooting commences :)

Dust doesn't get onto the sensor when you change lenses because the shutter is closed. It gets into the mirror box and then onto the sensor when you next take a picture, the mirror flips and the shutter opens exposing the sensor. Neither system will prevent this.

Shooting motorsport and especially rallying I've had to change lenses in pretty dusty environments. I've had dust bunnies appear on both my A100 and A700. They have been evident in a series of shots following a lens change but have always disappeared following an on/off cycle. I run a cleaning maintenance cycle and blow out the body with a rocket every month or so and I doubt I've ever cloned out more than a half dozen spots in over 2 years.
I'm pretty happy with the sensor shake cleaning.
 
I've had dust bunnies appear on both my A100 and A700. They have been evident in a series of shots following a lens change but have always disappeared following an on/off cycle. I run a cleaning maintenance cycle and blow out the body with a rocket every month or so and I doubt I've ever cloned out more than a half dozen spots in over 2 years.
I'm pretty happy with the mirror shake cleaning.

:plus1:
 
Nikon. Its a lens system you are buying into and Nikon lenses will beat Sony every time I'm sure. The problem with Sony and Olympus is that they are budget cameras. People go "Oooh a DSLR for £xxx" and buy it. I don't care what anyone says about the features on those bodies they simply aren't enough to warrant buying it over the Nikon lens system. Buy the D40, buy some nice lenses and eventually get the D80. Later get the D700 and even nicer lenses. Can you say the same for Sony or Olympus? Dust problems? Who cares, been fixable for years. Image stabilisation? Nice but I only have that on one lens and I can't say I've ever needed it on the others I use.
But Olympus are undoubtedly the best kit lenses, simple as that Pete. Not everyone will eventually become a professional photographer, not everyone aspires to be a professional photographer and the needs of a Pro v's someone new to DSLR's are simply not the same.

Sure, if one is new to photography but considers oneself good enough that one will eventually turn pro, and you want to shoot at high ISO, then perhaps opt for the D3, and certainly not the D40 or even the D300, or perhaps whatever the top Canon camera is... or even the top Sony, or even the top Oly... they are all tools that will perform better or worse in the hands of their photographer.

You may not have needed a use for IS, but most of us mere mortals do ;) Having IS in-camera beats IS in-lens hands down in my opinion... maybe not in yours, but certainly in mine. It means that I don't have to pay extortionate prices for lenses with IS when I get IS regardless of the lens I place on the camera. Blimey... come to think of it, I could put the ridiculously poor Nikon kit lens on my camera and perhaps make it take a decent photo!! :):) now there's a thought.

The thing is see Pete, is that in this case you are most certainly wrong, Olympus and Sony are not budget cameras, however, the D40 certainly is, and a poor one at that. Compared to other cameras in that price range, I consider it dross.

To the OP: go and try whichever camera you opt for and don't listen to poor, ill thought out arguments from fan boys intent on ensuring you get the same system as them. Whatever system you opt for, good luck with your pics.
 
Nikon. Its a lens system you are buying into and Nikon lenses will beat Sony every time I'm sure. The problem with Sony and Olympus is that they are budget cameras. People go "Oooh a DSLR for £xxx" and buy it. I don't care what anyone says about the features on those bodies they simply aren't enough to warrant buying it over the Nikon lens system. Buy the D40, buy some nice lenses and eventually get the D80. Later get the D700 and even nicer lenses. Can you say the same for Sony or Olympus? Dust problems? Who cares, been fixable for years. Image stabilisation? Nice but I only have that on one lens and I can't say I've ever needed it on the others I use.

That's a bit of a disingenuous argument though isn't it.
The pro market sector glass from all of the major contenders is similar in performance and price.
Each manufacturer produces lenses targeted towards clearly defined market sectors and the market sector equivalents from their competitors are essentially comparable. When a disparity exists the manufacturers are pretty quick to address it with a replacement that keeps them right in the game (That old Canon kit lens that was like the bottom of a jamjar springs instantly to mind).
The size of the Nikon and Canon lens catalogue is very impressive. It would probably still be impressive even if they didn’t have to make two versions of every lens to provide one with stabilisation ;)
But the truth is that most DSLR togs probably only need a handful of lenses: Wide to mid, mid to short tele, long tele and a macro. All manufacturers have these available in each market sector. So unless you intend to buy one of everything in the catalogue, or having a huge catalogue to admire is important, buying into a lens system may well be mute point.
 
But Olympus are undoubtedly the best kit lenses, simple as that Pete. Not everyone will eventually become a professional photographer, not everyone aspires to be a professional photographer and the needs of a Pro v's someone new to DSLR's are simply not the same.

I'm speaking as a photographer not a professional. My first DSLR was a Canon 10D, not a Canon 300D. This was a step up from my A70 and there was no hint of a thought of going pro at this time. I simply wanted something to grow into. So I can safely say that I know that not everyone aspires to be a pro, as I never did when I bought my DSLR.

You may not have needed a use for IS, but most of us mere mortals do ;) Having IS in-camera beats IS in-lens hands down in my opinion... maybe not in yours, but certainly in mine.

Mere mortals? I shoot in the same conditions as everyone else, with the same problems as everyone else. That was my point. Its a great feature but is it a reason to chose Sony over Nikon? No, not at all. Every decent photographer on the planet can prove that you don't need it.

To the OP: go and try whichever camera you opt for and don't listen to poor, ill thought out arguments from fan boys intent on ensuring you get the same system as them. Whatever system you opt for, good luck with your pics.

If thats aimed at me well I use Canon and not once suggested a Canon model unlike your first post which was "Go Olypmus!" and whats that in your sig, oh its Olympus :p So yeah, probably best she doesn't listen to you ;)
 
But the truth is that most DSLR togs probably only need a handful of lenses: Wide to mid, mid to short tele, long tele and a macro. All manufacturers have these available in each market sector. So unless you intend to buy one of everything in the catalogue, or having a huge catalogue to admire is important, buying into a lens system may well be mute point.

All I have is a Sigma 10-20, Canon 50mm, Canon 24-70 and Canon 70-200. Personally I would still buy a Nikon because its a tried and tested company. You know that they're in it to make amazing products. Sony are very new and tbh I don't yet see them as a valid contender. How many times do you see Sony cameras at big events? How often do you hear of photographers wanting to switch from Nikon to Sony? The range of lenses offered by Nikon will let you play in various fields and allow you to be creative. Its not about buying them all its about having the option to buy something if you want to change direction. Nikon and Canon are good enough for almost all the professional photographers in the world and that says a lot. Nikon has a bigger userbase for support, a bigger selection of lenses, I'd imagine a better customer support system and so on. What about Sony's flash system? ISO performance? Prime lenses? Dynamic range performance?

If you don't believe me then maybe DPReview can help. D40x conclusion. Sony A200 conclusion. D40x is highly rated, A200 is just about highly rated.
 
It wasn't aimed at you Pete, it was a comment in general. I most certainly am a fan of Olympus, but I am no fan boy and always encourage newcomers to DSLR's to go out and take a look at any system before they purchase to see what the camera feels like in their hands.

I hate to say it Pete, though I think you may not actually realise this, but many of your posts come across as quite pretentious, patronising and condecending; intolerant of any other opinion than that of your own. If anyone says anything remotely different to you, you jump in with both feet as if it is a personal attack. Step back Pete, and don't knee-jerk. To give someone new to DSLR's the sort of advice you do is not impartial, and therefore not in the best interests of the OP. Don't ram systems down their throats, present them with facts regardless as to if you like those facts or not, and let them make up their own minds.

As to advising anyone not to listen to me, well I considered you a little better than that; I never tout myself as a professional tog, I don't have delusions of grandeur, I never disrespect anyone, and I encourage people to use whatever tools they have to go out and take great photos - because we're all in this together. You seem to go for the insulting 'below the belt' shots, and unfortunately for tP, seem to get away with it.
 
But Olympus are undoubtedly the best kit lenses, simple as that Pete.



.......... don't listen to poor, ill thought out arguments from fan boys intent on ensuring you get the same system as them. .


Err.......isn't that exactly what you're doing? :LOL: :LOL:

Having IS in-camera beats IS in-lens hands down in my opinion

Correct,that's only your,somewhat biased, opinion. Gernerally, the considered opinion is that having the image stabilisation built into the lens provides a better result than that of one built into the body.

On lenses with focal lengths under 200mm it's a bit of a gimmick (just like anti-dust systems), that is used by the marketing departments to flog cameras to newbies. Anyway it just prevents the development of a proper camera-holding technique if you rely on the camera for everything ;)

Personally I couldn't care less if someone else buys a Canon, Nikon, Olympus or anything else, but it should be possible to discuss the merits of the various systems without resulting to a slanging match.....
 
Um, I'm recommending them a system I don't use. They asked which one and I said which one. I could have presented info on the Canon models but I didn't because I didn't want to be "fanboyish". I wanted to point out that even though I use a Canon the Nikon is the better camera out her choices. Oh and I always say to people to go and try out a body and buy the one they feel comfy with. I always say buy any compact by a list of makes. But when it comes to DSLR's for me there are only 2 companies that I would trust going with.

By the way, I did say "if" and I did put a winky winky smiley in there just to point out that its all tongue in cheek. Ya know the whole irony of it? Me suggesting a make I don't use as my first post, you suggesting the exact camera in your sig and telling people not to listen to fanboys. Its a joke. We really need a [just kidding] set of tags. But if you have a problem with me then speak to the mods as I'm sure I'm only a few points away from another ban :p
 
Ahhh, another Nikon user I see. :)

Yep, it's my opinion and I am entitled to it thank you. Oh, and re the kit lenses, it's not an opinion that one I'm afraid, it's fact - Olympus kit lenses are head and shoulders above any other kit lenses.

If you had read my posts you will have seen that I encourage the OP to go out and try any system before they buy - whatever system that is.

IS provides you with more stops of light - it's not just used for longer lenses, so you can take shots with lenses <200mm in lower light conditions.

Pete and I often have a bit of banter...;)
 
That's it...from now on only Canon and Nikon discussions should be allowed,these "outsiders" just cause too much trouble (insert the appropriate smiley, to indicate that I'm joking, here)
 
IS provides you with more stops of light - it's not just used for longer lenses, so you can take shots with lenses <200mm in lower light conditions.

Actually it provides you with more stops of shutter speed not aperture (light) to allow you to shoot at a slower speed than normal without the user-induced movement having an effect on the image.......
 
Oh I see... pedantic as well as sarcastic eh!

Stops of light means stops of light - regardless of size of aperture or shutter speed. If you get increased shutter speed it's because you have more stops of light, if you get smaller aperture it's because you have more stops of light - works both ways, both allow you to take images with less user-induced movement.

Aperture is not light, it's the size of the hole that the light goes through; shutter speed is not light, it's the time allowed for the light to go through.

Good this isn't it... :)
 
I haven't read the entire thread fully, was enjoying the end banter too much :LOL:, but perhaps another advantage of going Nikon is that you'll probably come across more Nikon users in the field and subsequently have the opportunity to try out their lenses before buying more?

Although not sure if the D40 is restricted with the lenses it can take with the focusing or something?
 
Sony are very new and tbh I don't yet see them as a valid contender. How many times do you see Sony cameras at big events?

You kind of answered your own question before you'd asked it there.
In fact you'll see Sony cameras at most major events. If they are being televised. Sony are leaders in broadcast quality video cams.

How often do you hear of photographers wanting to switch from Nikon to Sony? The range of lenses offered by Nikon will let you play in various fields and allow you to be creative. Its not about buying them all its about having the option to buy something if you want to change direction. Nikon and Canon are good enough for almost all the professional photographers in the world and that says a lot.

It does say a lot and their products are excellent but it doesn't say that nobody else could ever match their quality. Much as I hate to admit it, because I despise Sony's marketing methods, you'd have to be plain stupid to suggest that a company with the resources that Sony has, that already makes major components for other camera companies, Nikon included, already has a huge presence in pro video equipment and P&S markets won't create a storm in DSLR's.

Nikon has a bigger userbase for support, a bigger selection of lenses, I'd imagine a better customer support system and so on. What about Sony's flash system? ISO performance? Prime lenses? Dynamic range performance?
.

Sony bought the "dead in the water" Minolta camera division and with one product, took a 20% market share in 2006. If they'd been quicker getting the new models out I can't imagine where they'd be.
Sony didn't get all of Minolta's lens manufacturing facilities, so have been starting pretty much from scratch there and it's damaged them. But again, Sony's resources.....It will not be long. And with Sony, third party lenses are a viable option because you don't need IS lenses. There are very good lenses available from Tamron (part owned by Sony) and Sigma that whilst not always on the shelf are easily obtainable. The Zeiss lenses are, as you'd expect, outstandingly sharp. Personally I prefer the bokeh on the classic G glass but that's my choice.
Minolta invented wireless flash. The built in flash triggers them so you don't need a £300 slave! You can use as many as you like. Set ratios. They can be used at any shutter speeds. 1/2000s? no problem, wirelessly too if you like and Sony released 2 new ones this year.
The ISO and DR performance are very much a perception issue. A perception caused in part by the problems that some graphics apps had with mauling the RAW output from Sonys. Some of the apps have been fixed others pretend that they didn't have problems but the fact is, when you don't use those apps the picture quality is fine.
Sony have chosen to approach their image processing in a different way to some of the competitors and the results are not as some might expect but I like it, so maybe others will too.

If you don't believe me then maybe DPReview can help. D40x conclusion. Sony A200 conclusion. D40x is highly rated, A200 is just about highly rated.

I think I'd rather believe you Pete. I find with most review sites and magazines quite frankly, that you can predict the results of comparative tests by totting up the advertising revenue from each manufacturer in their publications and ranking the cameras in ££££ order. I've read reviews and then checked the points tally at the end and seen them contradict themselves on many occasions. :shrug: Pinch of Salt!

I'm not advertising Sony. I couldn't give a monkeys what the OP buys. I dislike the Sony corporation, would never tire of punching their marketing department and every time I'm watching a movie and someone opens a Vaio laptop and thrusts the badge into the camera I want to vomit but however you slice it their cameras are a product worthy of consideration.
 

Haha no thats just stupid :p It should be "I shoot Canon, buy a Nikon" and then when the Olympus guy turns up "So?" :p

You kind of answered your own question before you'd asked it there.
In fact you'll see Sony cameras at most major events. If they are being televised. Sony are leaders in broadcast quality video cams.

Not exactly the best response as I was referring to photography not videography :p

...won't create a storm in DSLR's

I know they've got some good things coming but they're not yet here. Its all a bit silly really. Nikon are one of the worlds leading camera manufacturers, so the problem is? Its always the way with these threads, everyone throwing specs and features at people. Simple thing is that Nikon make great lenses and great cameras that have been tried and tested to do the job in every major field of photography. Based on that recommendation I would go with a Nikon more than a Sony right now. Maybe in 5-10 years Sony will be a big name leading photography brand but right now I wouldn't want to invest in their gear.


Now thats a good response, finally :) You do make the Sony sound more appealing but I would still recommend Nikon simply because they're not starting out in this industry, despite Sony buying Minolta.
 
Well clearly you're all passionate about the subject... :LOL:

Thanks for all the replies, if you haven't directly advised me, atleast you've bumped up the thread :p

Just to update you, I'm very interested in Hammerheads offer so might own a Sony A100 soon! Otherwise, I guess I'll just pop down to a store and have a play with some, bearing what you have all said in mind.


Enjoying the banter
:)
 
Well clearly you're all passionate about the subject... :LOL:

Thanks for all the replies, if you haven't directly advised me, atleast you've bumped up the thread :p

Just to update you, I'm very interested in Hammerheads offer so might own a Sony A100 soon! Otherwise, I guess I'll just pop down to a store and have a play with some, bearing what you have all said in mind.


Enjoying the banter
:)

hammerheads offer is a cracker...i recently sold my A100 with kit lens for £200,so i'd definately grab it (y)
 
Blimey ...... I know you guys/gals are passionate about your hobby but I didn't expect to stir up a major conflict in the TP arena. :woot:
 
I know there is a growing band of Sony users on the TP forum so I'll mention it here before it goes onto ebay. If the sale of my A100 goes through I will be selling the Sigma (sony fit) 170-500mm APO f5-6.3 for £220+p&p anyone interested?

Tinyspark

I've tried as best as possible to show how good the condition of the Body and Kit Lens is but using flash doesn't help.

Body & Lenses included
Sony_A100-04.jpg


Rear (Screen ON)
Sony_A100-01.jpg


Side & Kit Lens
Sony_A100-02.jpg


Can anyone tell me how to find out the number of Shutter actuations on the Sony A100? :help: :ty:
 
I know there is a growing band of Sony users on the TP forum so I'll mention it here before it goes onto ebay. If the sale of my A100 goes through I will be selling the Sigma (sony fit) 170-500mm APO f5-6.3 for £220+p&p anyone interested?

Is that THIS one?

:eek:
 
This is it: just some marks on the lens hood.
170-500mm.jpg


Regards

Paul

Thanks Hammerhead, I've now became even more excited! :D


Tinyspark,
just to be clear the lens pictured above is not included as part of the deal I offered to you. I'm sure you'll be very happy with the Sony A100 though.
Ive checked through the manual and can't find anyway of find out the shutter actuations, hopefully I can get some assistance from the TP members. I'll let you know as soon as I can.
 
Don't worry, I'm clear about what I'm getting, looks in good nic too!
Just gotta hurry up my Dad sorting the PayPal out, is it ok if he does it on Thursday? I think he's away tommorrow. (Well actually, today lol. Another sign i should be going to bed :LOL:)
 
Back
Top