Nokia 41MP Smartphone.

mid_gen said:
Completely missed the point. Again!

It's not about 41mp images, it's about 5mp images with less noise...and bags of digital zoom.
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No it is not missed point. Please compare something like 1DIII, 7D and that nokia down at 5MP. You are likely to find the IQ in reverse order of MP count. So what is the point of 41MP? Why not just start at decent clean 5MP and stop marketing nonsense?
 
stevelmx5 said:
To be fair though, there are numerous posts here agreeing that the actual images shown by Nokia have smudged details indicating either poor image rendering or just a side effect of the technology. Either way, as much as I like it when companies bring out genuine new technology I'm still not blown away by this. I agree that the tech could be the future but at the moment I'm not rushing out to get on the waiting list.
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If we consider that this may compete against small cheap compacts in the Gucci handbag - this may reasonably compete in the 5x7" print area. This is pretty much the beginning of the end of standalone digital 'compact'. They are being replaced by smartphones and CSC at the higher end.

mid_gen said:
There are pixel peepers who don't understand the tech who are comparing a phone camera to a D800.

Compare the output to another camera phone and you will see why the tech is worthwhile.
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To be fair, the people that compare a phone to D800 may not appreciate or understand photography and may seriously struggle with a reasonable comparison. At the end of the day if it captured drunken mate in the state - it has done the job well. And the big adds - it is all done in Hollywood using secret technology. :wacky:
 
mid_gen said:
Lot of people showing some ill-informed tech snobbery here....

It's a native 41MP sensor. It is primarily used for:

5mp mode with pixel binning to provide superior low-light performance.

Oodles of digital zoom.

You can use it in native mode as well. There's nothing to not like about this tech. Would the snide remarks be coming if Nikon/Canon produced a camera with a 200mp sensor that downsampled to 20 and blew away the competition for ISO performance?
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Sorry, do you work for their marketing or something, or why are you sore about others opinions? when they're merely being honest? Why does it bother you?

The images I've seen are muck. Plain simple. This is not trying to even compete with dslrs. It's trying to out do other phone cams. Good job. As its 41mp of gunk and wouldn't stand up to even the oldest dslr from what I'm seeing. Specsavers for the rest of you!
 
mid_gen said:
Most of the posts on here are people sneering at it because it's a camera phone.

Instead it's all scoffing at how my 8DMKIII has only got 20mp rah rah.

This place sometimes.....
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I think the reason people are questioning this (myself included) is because when you actually
look at the technology, it is largely marketing hype. Physically, the phone uses a 5mp sensor but the software/sensor utilises 7 pixels around each actual pixel to build an image 8x the actual size (8x5 = 40). Therefore, the huge pixel image isn't actually from a 41mp sensor but I'm sure if the Nokia marketing stated;

"Hey, look at our new 5mp Lumia camera that upscales to 40mp in software to give you a huuuuge image from tiny glass with inherent optical issues"

It wouldn't get the same coverage..

I do however agree that it's good to see new sensor/software technology which will invariably filter on to DSLRs and CSCs in some form but for the time being, the 41mp headline is about marketing and hype.
 
mid_gen said:
Most of the posts on here are people sneering at it because it's a camera phone.

http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/photo/nokia-lumia-1020-pro-highres-16.jpg

Seriously, how can you not be impressed that that image has come out of something a few MM thick, and not interested in how the tech might be used in a full DSLR! Instead it's all scoffing at how my 8DMKIII has only got 20mp rah rah.

This place sometimes.....
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This place is right ... an awful lot of assuming goes on. I wouldn't ever compare this to a dslr, only someone mentioned people were put out because their Nikon/Canon couldn't match it ... I mean, what a lolz! :D

There is NO comparison is right. Click on the cars in the image you posted, they're just a smudge of colour when zoomed in. To me, that's horendous! I'm not sure why you're getting all defensive for a product??

One corner of an image from my D800E will hammer a full res file from this, because sensor size means a hell of a lot more than mp count. I don't think some of you get this. The sensor is still tiny! And I've looked at the full res images posted about, they are horrible when you start to zoom in.

I'll stick to the iphone, which is what I am actually comparing it to ;)
 
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mid_gen said:
Most of the posts on here are people sneering at it because it's a camera phone.

http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/photo/nokia-lumia-1020-pro-highres-16.jpg

Seriously, how can you not be impressed that that image has come out of something a few MM thick, and not interested in how the tech might be used in a full DSLR! Instead it's all scoffing at how my 8DMKIII has only got 20mp rah rah.

This place sometimes.....
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Seriously, calm down, and leave the marketing job (paid or not - it doesn't matter) aside

The pics downsample back to 5MP where IQ becomes acceptable in bright sunshine, bar the very soft extreme edges. at 41MP it is well and truly hopeless and in fact it is FALSE ADVERTISING to name it as such. Will this print me that fashion bilboard on the building? NO!
It will print at 5x7 and maybe 11x8" if you are really lucky.
The thing is not so tiny by the way. 1/1.5" sensor is bigger than the average compact (1/2.5"), but the lens here is a fixed 25mm equiv. prime - and this is where nokia decided to "cheat". There is nothing wrong with development, it is in fact very welcome, but please no bending of truth with ad materials.
 
Bending the truth is what marketing departments appear to excel at these days. While enthusiasts look at things in more depth most consumers like big numbers and this might appeal to them, giving the product a USP that the rest of the camera phones lack.

Down sampling the pics to an equivalent resolution gives better quality than my old iphone4 or my s3. IMO, of course.
 
Some people here are seriously hard work...

Does it take better pictures compared to any other PHONE on the market? If so, how much better is it than all the other PHONEEESSS?

No, it won't be as good as a dslr with a half decent lens but then again I'm not seeing Nokia's marketing department making such a claim.

At the end of the day, it's a tiny lens and a tiny sensor mounted on something that fits in your pocket without making you look deformed around the hips. If you don't like Windows Phone then fine but at least appreciate the tech for what it is - an improvement on what's currently available (on phones...)
 
stevelmx5 said:
I think the reason people are questioning this (myself included) is because when you actually
look at the technology, it is largely marketing hype. Physically, the phone uses a 5mp sensor but the software/sensor utilises 7 pixels around each actual pixel to build an image 8x the actual size (8x5 = 40). Therefore, the huge pixel image isn't actually from a 41mp sensor but I'm sure if the Nokia marketing stated;

"Hey, look at our new 5mp Lumia camera that upscales to 40mp in software to give you a huuuuge image from tiny glass with inherent optical issues"

It wouldn't get the same coverage..

I do however agree that it's good to see new sensor/software technology which will invariably filter on to DSLRs and CSCs in some form but for the time being, the 41mp headline is about marketing and hype.
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One more time....

It is a 41mp sensor.

:bang:

It's not meant to be used in native 41mp mode....and comparing 100% shots to a DSLR, you mean a button sized lens cant resolve as well as a D800 with pro glass, no **** Sherlock!

It's meant to be used in pixel binning mode which gives it a significant step up in low light performance, or as a useful digital zoom, again, far better than what is offered on other phones.

New technology, advance in sensor tech, and definitely not a marketing gimmick. Would love to see the next step which would be this tech in an RX100 alike compact, would really start scaring some DSLRs...
 
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daugirdas said:
Seriously, calm down, and leave the marketing job (paid or not - it doesn't matter) aside

The pics downsample back to 5MP where IQ becomes acceptable in bright sunshine, bar the very soft extreme edges. at 41MP it is well and truly hopeless and in fact it is FALSE ADVERTISING to name it as such. Will this print me that fashion bilboard on the building? NO!
It will print at 5x7 and maybe 11x8" if you are really lucky.
The thing is not so tiny by the way. 1/1.5" sensor is bigger than the average compact (1/2.5"), but the lens here is a fixed 25mm equiv. prime - and this is where nokia decided to "cheat". There is nothing wrong with development, it is in fact very welcome, but please no bending of truth with ad materials.
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It has a 41mp sensor, what is false advertising about saying it does? In an ideal world the pixel binning and digital zoom would be the headline, but most people don't know what that means, but in this case it is enough that more mp = better so fair enough marketing it as such! What truth has been bended exactly?
 
mid_gen said:
and bags of digital zoom.
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Are you serious? Have you actually seen the test images? They look utterly horrendous full size viewed at 100% and they still look horrendous when reduced down to something like 1400-1600 pixels wide. You might be able to zoom in loads digitally and still get stacks of pixels but they'll still look rubbish.

I'm all for new tech if it works. This doesn't.

P.S. I'm talking specifically about your mention of oodles of digital zoom here which implies the sensor being run at it's native resolution, not the 5MP mode.
 
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People can bang on about it as much as they like but it still won't change the fact that as a camera ( which it does claim to be) its shyte
 
drexyl said:
People can bang on about it as much as they like but it still won't change the fact that as a camera ( which it does claim to be) its shyte
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There was me thinking it claimed to be a phone?
 
Cagey75 said:
The images I've seen are muck. Plain simple. This is not trying to even compete with dslrs. It's trying to out do other phone cams. Good job. As its 41mp of gunk and wouldn't stand up to even the oldest dslr from what I'm seeing. Specsavers for the rest of you!
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I think it's the same setup as the old Nokia 808.
In which case some people who know what they are talking about would like to disagree with you.
http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2012/02/41-megapixel-phone-camera/

I think a fair comparison would be my 5DII and sharpest lens - bound to be lots of caveats on that such as using proper technique, just like a 'real' camera.
Personally, I'd like them to drop the phone part of it, and make a pocket camera with stunning IQ.
 
PMN said:
Those images are very, very different to the test shots I've seen elsewhere online and they're about 10,000 times better. If that's how the images from it actually look then it's mighty impressive indeed!
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Agreed (y)
That article stopped me slandering stupidly high Mp cameras; there's definitely potential in them.
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
That article stopped me slandering stupidly high Mp cameras; there's definitely potential in them.
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I have my reservations about the megapixel race but I generally judge cameras on what I see, and what I saw of this particular one was frankly terrible. I'm not quite sure how those images are so vastly different to the ones I saw but it's those I'll base my opinion on for now! :)
 
the 808 has a different sensor, different lens, different processing
808 is a better camera imo
 
The link put up by the OP has images from the official 1020 sample images.
http://www.photographyblog.com/news/official_nokia_lumia_1020_sample_images/

I do agree that the IQ discussed in the Tim Parkin 808 link does not seem to be present in the sample images I looked at, especially on the edges.
However, not everyone agrees.
http://mynokiablog.com/2013/07/15/d...s-most-of-what-he-hoped-for-in-final-product/

When getting image quality of this level, technique is everything.
I guess we will just have to keep watching and see where it goes.

Edited to add:
Pixel peeping at 100% is pretty tough test on any 41Mp image.
Looking at full HD resolution I can just about see that edge softness, but I bet it produces cracking A3 prints.
I suspect the IQ is still on a par with the very best pocket cameras.
 
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One other issue I seem to have picked up in my reading on this is that the 808 had a dedicated processor to process the shots taken whereas this 1020 uses the regular CPU to do the same job so I expect there will be some improvements in software.

I'm looking forward to seeing it out and about in use though :) It won't replace my dslr but it's handy to have in my pocket!
 
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