Official Talk Leica thread

Actually, I'm wrong. According to this article they're not the same camera. Leica have actually removed functionality from the FZ1000 donor including wireless flash control, wireless image sharing and AVCHD format video.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54558705

Anyway, sorry for taking over the Leica thread. I just hate seeing people paying over the odds for a camera/system like the 114 when it's clearly just a rebranded marketing tool.
 
Nuzik said:
You are comparing apples and oranges though.

I've used the SL and it instantly made me want one. It's so f*****g sexy seriously it is. It's still on the first firmware and all mirrorless have th issue Dan was having which actually isn't an issue it's a learning curve going from a DSLR Trojan like the D750 to the SL.

The Fuji isn't a great bit of kit yes it tracks well or does it? Take some photos tracking and see if they are pin sharp they won't be against the Nikon mark my words and it's no cheaper why but a cheap mirrorless camera when the D750 is so good it makes no sense??

What you get with the Leica is a different way it renders the image the bokeh the colours it's like a good drunk of Vodka it doesn't burn or take an effort to drink where as cheaper just gets you p***ed with no taste.

I'll never buy an SL as my budget wouldn't even dictate it, but that's not to say it's not a good camera, if Dan just decided to do portraits all the time you'd see far more. Give him until march when he's given up testing the camera out and just getting stunning results.

The M is lovely as well from what I've seen but for my hands and use its pointless I can't focus for s***.

Don't get tied up with other reviews of the Fuji or Sony that they can do this that or the other as they aren't for everyone.

I hated the XT2 and sold it, awful to me doesn't mean I didn't get any good shots just really wasn't what I wanted or expected, as for Sony well their tech is old and very expensive.
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TBH for me most of the Leica loveliness is down to the lenses rather than the bodies, you just need to look at film cameras for evidence of this. Fuji velvia for example is Fuji velvia no matter what camera you put it in, but look at a shot taken with the 50mm noctilux f0.95 and you see something rather special.
 
snerkler said:
TBH for me most of the Leica loveliness is down to the lenses rather than the bodies, you just need to look at film cameras for evidence of this. Fuji velvia for example is Fuji velvia no matter what camera you put it in, but look at a shot taken with the 50mm noctilux f0.95 and you see something rather special.
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This is true. Something like a Cron or a Lux has something special to it. Saying that, I really like some of the output from Voigtlanders offerings.

The M is a great camera. Film or Digital. I'd love to be able to get my hands on the SL. I like the Q too, but I just don't shoot at 28mm enough to warrant considering it.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Actually, I'm wrong. According to this article they're not the same camera. Leica have actually removed functionality from the FZ1000 donor including wireless flash control, wireless image sharing and AVCHD format video.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54558705

Anyway, sorry for taking over the Leica thread. I just hate seeing people paying over the odds for a camera/system like the 114 when it's clearly just a rebranded marketing tool.
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I think this has settled it for me - I will be looking for a different series of Leica - most probably the X series - as a genuine good quality product from the German manufacturer. My v lux replacement - well I think that is for another thread..!
 
stickytape said:
I think this has settled it for me - I will be looking for a different series of Leica - most probably the X series - as a genuine good quality product from the German manufacturer. My v lux replacement - well I think that is for another thread..!
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Sorry but I just don't understand this thinking at all... If you want a camera can't you just buy the one that best fits your needs? Why does it have to be a Leica? I suppose there's nothing with wanting a "genuine good quality product from the German manufacturer" but I just don't and never will quite get this mindset and way of thinking.

To me a Leica makes sense in the following two scenarios... I want a mechanical rangefinder camera / I want a digital RF camera... or... I love this Leica lens and I want a Leica camera to use it on because that's where I believe it'll work best. To me wanting a Leica for the badge and cachet or because it's "Made in Germany" is just on another planet. Sorry to intrude in this thread and to all those on that other planet.
 
woof woof said:
Sorry but I just don't understand this thinking at all... If you want a camera can't you just buy the one that best fits your needs? Why does it have to be a Leica? I suppose there's nothing with wanting a "genuine good quality product from the German manufacturer" but I just don't and never will quite get this mindset and way of thinking.

To me a Leica makes sense in the following two scenarios... I want a mechanical rangefinder camera / I want a digital RF camera... or... I love this Leica lens and I want a Leica camera to use it on because that's where I believe it'll work best. To me wanting a Leica for the badge and cachet or because it's "Made in Germany" is just on another planet. Sorry to intrude in this thread and to all those on that other planet.
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My logic is that I have had a Leica V Lux (the original) for many years. I purchased it because I have always appreciated the company and its products - in particular the binoculoues. Now it is time for a new camera - or two - and given that the Panasonic and Leica bridge range are nigh on identical, I do not see the point in purchasing the v Lux. I like the look of the x series as a potential compliment to whatever bridge or DSLR I end up purchasing. For the same reason I drove a Mercedes, I appreciate the brand and am happy to pay a reasonable amount for a brand and product I like. I certainly appreciate that there are other companies out there that do amazing products - at cheaper or more expensive points. Nevertheless, this - for me - is a personal choice due to my history with the company and its products.
 
Whilst I hear Fuji lenses are at the top of their game and everyone elses for that matter, Leica are still finding room for improvement..

https://norbertwindecker.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/vergleich-leica-summilux-sl-11450-asph.html

side by side comparisons of M vs SL of the 50mm 1.4

Screenshot%2B2016-12-19%2B21.44.45.png
 
stickytape said:
Nevertheless, this - for me - is a personal choice due to my history with the company and its products.
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Madness, IMO, but at least you seem to have seen the light on the badged Panasonics at inflated prices.

I still don't understand this insistence on owning a Leica. If you look at the history of Leica with regards to quality they don't exactly have a blemish free record, but that's just me as I don't buy badges or buy into image. it's your money and although we seem to be polar opposites I hope you find a more real Leica that'll suite you well :D

As to Mercs, been there and down the Porsche and other "quality" routes and I take the same philosophy with me which is I'm buying the product not the brand or the image. An image doesn't get you from A to B (or get the photo for you.) One look at the usual quality and reliability surveys should tell you that some cars don't deserve the quality mystique they try very hard to cultivate and those surveys fit in pretty well with my Merc experience... expensive with a veneer of quality but somewhat lacking in real world quality and reliability. Give me substance, real world quality and fitness for purpose every time over a name and a badge.
 
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woof woof said:
Madness, IMO, but at least you seem to have seen the light on the badged Panasonics at inflated prices.

I still don't understand this insistence on owning a Leica. If you look at the history of Leica with regards to quality they don't exactly have a blemish free record, but that's just me as I don't buy badges or buy into image. it's your money and although we seem to be polar opposites I hope you find a more real Leica that'll suite you well :D

As to Mercs, been there and down the Porsche and other "quality" routes and I take the same philosophy with me which is I'm buying the product not the brand or the image. An image doesn't get you from A to B (or get the photo for you.) One look at the usual quality and reliability surveys should tell you that some cars don't deserve the quality mystique they try very hard to cultivate and those surveys fit in pretty well with my Merc experience... expensive with a veneer of quality but somewhat lacking in real world quality and reliability. Give me substance, real world quality and fitness for purpose every time over a name and a badge.
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Wise words there... very true!
 
woof woof said:
Madness, IMO, but at least you seem to have seen the light on the badged Panasonics at inflated prices.

I still don't understand this insistence on owning a Leica. If you look at the history of Leica with regards to quality they don't exactly have a blemish free record, but that's just me as I don't buy badges or buy into image. it's your money and although we seem to be polar opposites I hope you find a more real Leica that'll suite you well :D

As to Mercs, been there and down the Porsche and other "quality" routes and I take the same philosophy with me which is I'm buying the product not the brand or the image. An image doesn't get you from A to B (or get the photo for you.) One look at the usual quality and reliability surveys should tell you that some cars don't deserve the quality mystique they try very hard to cultivate and those surveys fit in pretty well with my Merc experience... expensive with a veneer of quality but somewhat lacking in real world quality and reliability. Give me substance, real world quality and fitness for purpose every time over a name and a badge.
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In all honesty you sound like a Panasonic fan boy. Which is fine but why come to the Leica thread to pee on other peoples chips?
p.s. ive only ever bought Panasonic tv's as im a fan boy
 
woof woof said:
Madness, IMO, but at least you seem to have seen the light on the badged Panasonics at inflated prices.

I still don't understand this insistence on owning a Leica. If you look at the history of Leica with regards to quality they don't exactly have a blemish free record, but that's just me as I don't buy badges or buy into image. it's your money and although we seem to be polar opposites I hope you find a more real Leica that'll suite you well :D

As to Mercs, been there and down the Porsche and other "quality" routes and I take the same philosophy with me which is I'm buying the product not the brand or the image. An image doesn't get you from A to B (or get the photo for you.) One look at the usual quality and reliability surveys should tell you that some cars don't deserve the quality mystique they try very hard to cultivate and those surveys fit in pretty well with my Merc experience... expensive with a veneer of quality but somewhat lacking in real world quality and reliability. Give me substance, real world quality and fitness for purpose every time over a name and a badge.
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I don't see any things to dislike about the X series? They are beautifully made (given my limited kknowledge) and appear to deliver the good image quality wise? I've had my Mercedes over 10 years. I quite like it, it's a nice car to drive and - to to me it's a good quality product with a good history of quality and craftsmanship - I am due an upgrade in the car department too.
 
woof woof said:
Madness, IMO, but at least you seem to have seen the light on the badged Panasonics at inflated prices.

I still don't understand this insistence on owning a Leica. If you look at the history of Leica with regards to quality they don't exactly have a blemish free record, but that's just me as I don't buy badges or buy into image. it's your money and although we seem to be polar opposites I hope you find a more real Leica that'll suite you well :D

As to Mercs, been there and down the Porsche and other "quality" routes and I take the same philosophy with me which is I'm buying the product not the brand or the image. An image doesn't get you from A to B (or get the photo for you.) One look at the usual quality and reliability surveys should tell you that some cars don't deserve the quality mystique they try very hard to cultivate and those surveys fit in pretty well with my Merc experience... expensive with a veneer of quality but somewhat lacking in real world quality and reliability. Give me substance, real world quality and fitness for purpose every time over a name and a badge.
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The quality of Mercs did suffer several years ago, in fact they were pretty shocking. But since they allegedly cut their profit margins to improve quality they do appear to be getting better again. Still not the tanks they once were though.
 
dancook said:
Whilst I hear Fuji lenses are at the top of their game and everyone elses for that matter, Leica are still finding room for improvement..

https://norbertwindecker.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/vergleich-leica-summilux-sl-11450-asph.html

side by side comparisons of M vs SL of the 50mm 1.4

Screenshot%2B2016-12-19%2B21.44.45.png
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That's a manually focussed Summilux-M versus the AF SL lens. Whoever focussed the M lens is either slightly blind or the people paying over £3k for it must be seriously disappointed!

Edit - It looks even more ridiculously poor when I see that the M is stopped down to 2.4 apparently! However, according to the details, that's at 1/125th whereas the SL lens is at 1.4 yet still only 1/180th?
 
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stevelmx5 said:
That's a manually focussed Summilux-M versus the AF SL lens. Whoever focussed the M lens is either slightly blind or the people paying over £3k for it must be seriously disappointed!

Edit - It looks even more ridiculously poor when I see that the M is stopped down to 2.4 apparently! However, according to the details, that's at 1/125th whereas the SL lens is at 1.4 yet still only 1/180th?
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The M does not read aperture correctly on the SL

The M is most definitely that 'soft'
 
dancook said:
Since ANY camera is capable of amazing photos, just buy the camera that you think looks good - because nothing else matters.
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Partially agree with this, although I'd have said buy a camera that you enjoy using. That might well be a Leica as they're very nice to use ;)
 
stevelmx5 said:
If the M lens is that soft, why do people pay over £3k for it? I get a better result with my A6K/50mm 1.8 that costs less than the soft bag the M lens probably comes in!
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for the bokeh?

it's no more than 2k used fortunately :D
 
stevelmx5 said:
Wow, bargain ;0)

I'm sure it's got 'character' and a 'unique rendering' but it's essentially soft. I'm not sure I'd be happy about it only being 2k used as a result.
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Some lenses are designed 'soft' to give better/nicer rendering. The Nikon 58mm is another one of these lenses. Possibly the softest of all Nikon '50mm' but arguably the nicest.
 
snerkler said:
Some lenses are designed 'soft' to give better/nicer rendering. The Nikon 58mm is another one of these lenses. Possibly the softest of all Nikon '50mm' but arguably the nicest.
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I believe the 50mm 0.95 lens will be softer than the summilux - it's about £8k new..

:D what are leica playing at.. everyone knows sharpness is where it's at
 
I get that pin-sharp results aren't always an indicator of a great final image (I shoot film!). However, back to your original post, if the unique rendering of the Summicron-M is down to its softness, the obviously sharp result of the SL version isn't really an improvement? ;0)
 
stevelmx5 said:
I get that pin-sharp results aren't always an indicator of a great final image (I shoot film!). However, back to your original post, if the unique rendering of the Summicron-M is down to its softness, the obviously sharp result of the SL version isn't really an improvement? ;0)
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Yes it's easy to lose sight of what you have and think the grass is greener :D but it'll have autofocus..
 
Nuzik said:
Dan why don't you either buy a Panasonic or a Fuji and dump that lump of s***. I tell you what you pay me £40 I'll come collect it ;)
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I could sell it and buy Fuji's entire range...maybe

But since I can only ever take a photo with one camera and one lens, I don't like to have lots of unused equipment. I prefer to invest heavily in one lens that I will use the majority of the time.
 
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I thought I was the sarcastic one? I was only pointing out the fact that whatever spin is put around it, a £3k lens is soft wide open and Dan himself was impressed that Leica have 'improved' on it by making their new £5k (?) version actually sharp wide open. I'm not suggesting Dan should buy a Panasonic, Fuji or Sony (I think he's already owned all them before anyway), I'm merely suggesting that brand loyalty can sometimes cloud realistic judgement. Maybe if I was in the position to drop £2k on a used lens as a stop gap I'd be different but I've always tried to make my kit earn its' value back.

Each to their own though and here's to a happy new year.
 
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stevelmx5 said:
I thought I was the sarcastic one? I was only pointing out the fact that whatever spin is put around it, a £3k lens is soft wide open and Fan himself was impressed that Leica have 'improved' in it by making the new £5k (?) version actually sharp wide open. I'm not suggesting Dan should buy a Panasonic, Fuji or Sony (I think he's already owned all them before anyway), I'm merely suggesting that brand loyalty can sometimes cloud realistic judgement. Maybe if I was in the position to drop £2k on a used lens as a stop gap I'd be different but I've always tried to make my kit earn its' value back.

Each to their own though and here's to a happy new year.
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wasnt reference to you, is an 'in' joke between Dan and I
 
stevelmx5 said:
I thought I was the sarcastic one? I was only pointing out the fact that whatever spin is put around it, a £3k lens is soft wide open and Dan himself was impressed that Leica have 'improved' on it by making their new £5k (?) version actually sharp wide open. I'm not suggesting Dan should buy a Panasonic, Fuji or Sony (I think he's already owned all them before anyway), I'm merely suggesting that brand loyalty can sometimes cloud realistic judgement. Maybe if I was in the position to drop £2k on a used lens as a stop gap I'd be different but I've always tried to make my kit earn its' value back.

Each to their own though and here's to a happy new year.
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The 2k lens will still be about 2k when i sell it again

Happy New Year!

(also I am shooting weddings with it...)
 
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I wonder why there has been an ever growing obsession with sharpness? I too have been guilty of it but I'm learning more and more to just appreciate the look that a lens gives. I still prefer the look of film and half the time they're soft as hell ;)
 
Devils' advocate question. Joking and sarcasm aside, if any other manufacturer brought out a 50mm 1.4 prime that cost £300, was soft in the centre but had nice bokeh, would it be described as 'soft' or 'characterful'? With Leica's long analogue heritage, are they given more leeway over the usual internet-based DXO score agonising etc? I'm not bashing Leica, just a theoretical question about brand awareness versus modern digital user expectation.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Devils' advocate question. Joking and sarcasm aside, if any other manufacturer brought out a 50mm 1.4 prime that cost £300, was soft in the centre but had nice bokeh, would it be described as 'soft' or 'characterful'? With Leica's long analogue heritage, are they given more leeway over the usual internet-based DXO score agonising etc? I'm not bashing Leica, just a theoretical question about brand awareness versus modern digital user expectation.
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It would split opinion just like the 58mm does, but probably less vigorously due to the cost. The current 50mm F1.4g is soft but people seem to love that. The Sigma art is undeniably sharper yet some still prefer the bokeh of the Nikon. Opinions will differ we just have to accept that. What I don't get is why folk are labelled as deluded (or whatever term is used) because they see something in a lens that someone else doesn't.
 
I came into this Leica thread with talk of sharpness... I thought it was a bourgeois concept? :p

I think the M9 when it came out had one of the worst DXO scores - http://petapixel.com/2013/03/08/dxo...t-results-have-leica-photographers-befuddled/
Yet personally I think the output from it is great. There is no badge justification - I just find something really nice and organic from the images. I found the M8 pretty decent too in that respect too.

I must admit, I would like a Lux for the M. If someone wants to lend or donate a Noctilux to me for 2017 that would also be great haha. Happy new year to you all!
 
twist said:
Like a bat out of hell.

What you shooting bud? Last time I was around it was the lovely Q, I'll assume a M of some sort and the lux?
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Leica q and leica sl with 90-280 and 50mm 1.4 leica m

Can't remove marcel
 
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