PC World today..... accused of being a Worrell-Thompson

I know Steve.......... had it not been for those temp sodding lights at the ring road I would have................

Seriously, though, isn't it good that one of your closest competitors is so crap............. and that forever now on, despite you not being the cheapest.... I will always come to WEX.
 
Tota said:
Hell of a mistake to call someone a thief. Not exactly the same as getting a delivery/order wrong.
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Thankyou.. That was pretty much my whole point - you have just put it so succinctly. (y)

How to really p.... off a customer step 1.
 
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pooley said:
A person was wrong. Get over it.
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I am over it........... just merely responding to the continuation of the thread......(y)

It's when people like yourself you obviously accept being accused of x or y and treated like s*** accept it, as "it's the way it is" then... it becomes more acceptable to treat others like s***.


Would YOU have HONESTLY been happy about being accused of it? :wacky:
 
I deal with things sensibly, firmly standing my ground, like it appears you may have done at the time. I have to do this every single day in my job. I invariably get the result I'm after before getting on with the rest of my day without feeling like I need to ask for blood on a public forum.
Personally I would avoid pc world if it had happened to me, but not feel the need to get everyone else to do the same.
 
Lynton said:
Seriously, though, isn't it good that one of your closest competitors is so crap............. and that forever now on, despite you not being the cheapest.... I will always come to WEX.
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The very reason I've crossed the threshold of a DSG store precisely twice since 1996, finally realised then just how bleeding irritating they were and that I would happily pay more to not shop there. Funnily enough though I've kept abreast of their prices and I think I'm ahead and with better (some) customer service :)
 
Sorry Pooley, I have to disagree with you on accepting a mistake has been made and getting on with it.

Shoplifting in my limited experience is carried out by a small minority of society. It is a problem for the shopkeeper to deal with and not a problem for me to worry about. However most shops treat every customer crossing their threshold as a potential thief. I for one find this situation unacceptable.

If I myself was to be accused of shoplifting I would make such a scene they would have to close the shop.
 
I deal with shoplifters on an all to regular basis - I don't think its too hard to figure out my job. I've locked up just about every range of society from the drug users after their next fix right through to 'respectable professionals' after a thrill. I recently arrested the son of a very famous sportsman who has more money than I'm likely to ever have. I've seen the most bizarre items stolen for no fathomable reason. Quite simply, there is no set picture of a shoplifter and their target items.

The OP has had a bad experience - thats beyond doubt - but the manager has made amends. I don't expect the OP will ever set foot in PC World again - thats fair enough, and a personal choice.

I hardly think that most shopkeepers treat every customer as a potential thief, but they have to make a stance when they think they are being targeted. Unfortunately, as in every walk of life, sometimes they're wrong. I'm not trying to defend PC World in this instance, just point out that sometimes you need to move on. If you can't do that I'll book you a place at your local hospital for your next bout of stress related illness.

Anyway, some people are happiest complaining, I've stated my opinion, and its time I withdrew from the thread

Happy shooting
 
Lynton said:
C

Not sure what the rules of selection, concealment and failure to pay are (would be interested)
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those are the criteria for having legitimate suspicion that some scrote is shop lifting from your store

ie staff have witnessed them selecting the item, concealing it about their person and leaving or attempting to leave the premises without making payment for the goods.

In your case while they could just about make a case for part 1 (ie you are in possession of a memory card case which has been removed from its secutity container) they havent got a prayer of establisihing either 2 or 3 so they shouldnt have made any accusation.

Incidentally wrt your point about why a shop lifter would chose a £15 item rather tha a £99 item - small mid value items are favorite as they are easily transportable and easy to fence. in convenience stores ( I used to manage one such) the highest choice item is razor blades which are light, easy to carry, and relatively pricey - after that condoms and then third and fourth choice items were jars of coffee and packets of bacon.

(not withstanding the little scrote who did a runner with a whole stack of pot noodles and was subsequently apprehened trying to flog them to kids at the school round the corner)
 
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I'm sorry Pooley,

I know you want to leave this thread but I totally disagree with your last post.

It is not of any interest to me who is doing the shoplifting, though common sense would dictate that they do not have shoplifter written on their foreheads. My point was that they are an extremely small section of society. As for treating every customer as a thief do you not remember the security man on a raised platform by the exit door of every PC World? Security tags in all items of clothing? See how many items you can take into changing rooms in clothing stores without carrying a big numbered sign, etc etc etc. I have never stolen anything, but I have to accept with this outrageous behaviour in most stores as normal life.

No doubt John Terry, Luis Suarez and the Liverpool supporter arrested on Saturday would say they "made a mistake". Making a mistake will not stop them being charged and if guilty being punished. The difference between calling someone by a "racist name" or" a thief"........... is?

As for people who are always complaining? Well nowadays that is the only form of protest us "little people" have left.

However I do agree with you on one point :). I will also make this my last post on this subject.(y)
 
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pooley said:
I deal with shoplifters on an all to regular basis - I don't think its too hard to figure out my job. I've locked up just about every range of society from the drug users after their next fix right through to 'respectable professionals' after a thrill. I recently arrested the son of a very famous sportsman who has more money than I'm likely to ever have. I've seen the most bizarre items stolen for no fathomable reason. Quite simply, there is no set picture of a shoplifter and their target items.

The OP has had a bad experience - thats beyond doubt - but the manager has made amends. I don't expect the OP will ever set foot in PC World again - thats fair enough, and a personal choice.

I hardly think that most shopkeepers treat every customer as a potential thief, but they have to make a stance when they think they are being targeted. Unfortunately, as in every walk of life, sometimes they're wrong. I'm not trying to defend PC World in this instance, just point out that sometimes you need to move on. If you can't do that I'll book you a place at your local hospital for your next bout of stress related illness.

Anyway, some people are happiest complaining, I've stated my opinion, and its time I withdrew from the thread

Happy shooting
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Fair points........... though i am sure there would have been better ways of doing it....


big soft moose said:
those are the criteria for having legitimate suspicion that some scrote is shop lifting from your store

ie staff have witnessed them selecting the item, concealing it about their person and leaving or attempting to leave the premises without making payment for the goods.

In your case while they could just about make a case for part 1 (ie you are in possession of a memory card case which has been removed from its secutity container) they havent got a prayer of establisihing either 2 or 3 so they shouldnt have made any accusation.

Incidentally wrt your point about why a shop lifter would chose a £15 item rather tha a £99 item - small mid value items are favorite as they are easily transportable and easy to fence. in convenience stores ( I used to manage one such) the highest choice item is razor blades which are light, easy to carry, and relatively pricey - after that condoms and then third and fourth choice items were jars of coffee and packets of bacon.

(not withstanding the little scrote who did a runner with a whole stack of pot noodles and was subsequently apprehened trying to flog them to kids at the school round the corner)
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and another good point.... I was thinking more of a £99 mem card of 64 gb or so, if I was intent on nicking something............

and given the price of razor blades, I am tempted to go for the bearded look!!!
 
the thing is there'll be less demand on the street for a 64gb card (not many togs buy their memory from 'dodgy bob' in the dog and duck - low sized memory gets used in phones and compacts etc) so it'll be harder to fence , and the ammount the fence will give for it won't be much more than for the cheaper card

also store detectives tend to hover arround the high priced items so cheaper gear is easier to get away with

I have to say if I was intent on nicking something from PC world I'd probably go for pc parts which are highly saelable on ebay - i'd also send a decoy in to make a big song and dance and attract attention - your mate 'mike' wasnt filling his pockets with memory and graphics cards while you were arguing with the management was he ? :naughty: :LOL:
 
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Surely two 4gb cards would of been better than one 8gb card? :wacky:
 
Tota said:
No doubt John Terry, Luis Suarez and the Liverpool supporter arrested on Saturday would say they "made a mistake". Making a mistake will not stop them being charged and if guilty being punished. The difference between calling someone by a "racist name" or" a thief"........... is?
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Quite a lot actually. One is illegal and the other is actionable in a civil case.
 
Well we've all made silly mistakes.

I remember a bloke on here who jumped down a slide and broke both his ankles, cost the NHS a small fortune, all paid for from our taxes, no apology and no free stuff either.....

Mind you, you should of read the abuse he got on the nursing forums.....
 
Beagletorque said:
Well we've all made silly mistakes.

I remember a bloke on here who jumped down a slide and broke both his ankles, cost the NHS a small fortune, all paid for from our taxes, no apology and no free stuff either.....

Mind you, you should of read the abuse he got on the nursing forums.....
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Lynton, you've gotta laugh at that boi.
 
boliston said:
Hurt or not it's COMMON ASSAULT and a CRIMINAL OFFENCE. The only time a security guard can physically attempt to detain is if he is performing a citizen's arrest, but in order to do that he must have actually SEEN the suspect steal, not just have "a hunch".
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Not true, and perhaps just as well you didn't 'use force to resist'. Have a look at PACE, s.24A -

Sections 24A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 provides the power of arrest for persons other than constables and designated persons (e.g. members of the public).

24A(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant -

(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

24A(2) Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant -

(a) anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.

24A(3) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if -

(a) the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and
(b) it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.

24A(4) The reasons are to prevent the person in question -

(a) causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
(b) suffering physical injury;
(c) causing loss of or damage to property; or
(d) making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.

I would say the alarm sounding is more than enough to provide someone with reasonable grounds for suspecting, and theft is an either way (therefore technically indictable) offence.
 
I think it's a disgrace to be called a thief, shoplifter, etc, would never happen at a decent store like Tesco's. Regards Anthony Worrel-Thompson
 
johnny8977 said:
Not true, and perhaps just as well you didn't 'use force to resist'. Have a look at PACE, s.24A -

Sections 24A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 provides the power of arrest for persons other than constables and designated persons (e.g. members of the public).

24A(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant -

(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

24A(2) Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant -

(a) anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.

24A(3) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if -

(a) the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and
(b) it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.

24A(4) The reasons are to prevent the person in question -

(a) causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
(b) suffering physical injury;
(c) causing loss of or damage to property; or
(d) making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.

I would say the alarm sounding is more than enough to provide someone with reasonable grounds for suspecting, and theft is an either way (therefore technically indictable) offence.
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Someone going to the checkout with an empty box is not 'reasonable grounds' for arrest, even if it is a common ploy of thieves and could lead to a charge of assault or unlawful arrest.
 
Also if you are making an arrest under those terms I believe you have to state clearly what you are doing - so that the arrestee is aware that he being arrested rather than assaulted.

Also once you have 'arrested' said person you are suposed to hold them for the police, not just change your mind and let them go

so in lynton's case the security guard didnt exercise his powers of 'arrest' under pace - usually known as citizens arrest and mentioned by lynton in his very first post :shrug: - but did commit an assault by laying hands on lyntons person without his consent while not in the course of arrest.
 
gramps said:
Someone going to the checkout with an empty box is not 'reasonable grounds' for arrest, even if it is a common ploy of thieves and could lead to a charge of assault or unlawful arrest.
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big soft moose said:
Also if you are making an arrest under those terms I believe you have to state clearly what you are doing - so that the arrestee is aware that he being arrested rather than assaulted.

Also once you have 'arrested' said person you are suposed to hold them for the police, not just change your mind and let them go

so in lynton's case the security guard didnt exercise his powers of 'arrest' under pace - usually known as citizens arrest and mentioned by lynton in his very first post :shrug: - but did commit an assault by laying hands on lyntons person without his consent while not in the course of arrest.
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Nobody touch Lynton as far as I could see, it was tijuana taxi (post #12) that was grabbed by a guard when the alarm went off.
 
Toggerman said:
Nobody touch Lynton as far as I could see, it was tijuana taxi (post #12) that was grabbed by a guard when the alarm went off.
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Yeah you're right

In that case the guard did have reasonable grounds for suspicion (ie the alarm going off) but still didnt clearly announce that he was making a citizens arrest before grabbing rich by the arm - so he was still in the wrong although assault would be more questionable

the other point from that post tho is that citizens arrest does not give you the power to stop and search, and security guards have no more right to do so than anyone else (ie they can ask , but you can legally say no - tho to be honest if i've done nothing wrong i'd be inclined to let them as its not worth the hassle of being held for the police.

Incidentally the otherday i was walking out of tescos with a bunch of shirts (that i'd paid for on the self service) when i set of the alarms - a nice young chap on the customer service desk called me over, found the offending tag and removed it and sent me on my way... didnt ask for a receipt or anything :whistle: so much for all shops treating all customers as potential theives
 
big soft moose said:
Incidentally the otherday i was walking out of tescos with a bunch of shirts (that i'd paid for on the self service) when i set of the alarms - a nice young chap on the customer service desk called me over, found the offending tag and removed it and sent me on my way... didnt ask for a receipt or anything :whistle: so much for all shops treating all customers as potential theives
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If I'd have been his Manager I would've reprimanded him over that. There's good customer service and then there's laziness. He simply couldn't be bothered to check your receipt and so potentially aided a thief.

I'd be interested to know if the OP goes onto a forum and mentions every bit of good service he's ever had in a shop?

This isn't a slight on the OP but on society in general. "The British public will tell one person if they've had good service. They will tell five if they've had bad service" This used to be on a training video when I worked for DSGI in the 90's. I should imagine one figure has hardly changed now a days however with the dawn of the Internet and forums like this one I bet the other has increased hundred fold.

As I said, not a slight on the OP and I can see why he'd be ****ed in the first place.
 
To be honest i'm not an unreasonable person, but to get grabbed by the arm with something like the words "hold on you" didn't make me feel very agreeable

Perhaps "excuse me sir could you hang on a minute, seems you have set the alarm off, would you mind if we checked out why" might have been far more pleasant

Most people react to the initial contact made and that can be positive or in this case the total opposite



Know I should just have nutted him really and legged it with my nicked photomag :)
 
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HappySnappy1977 said:
"The British public will tell one person if they've had good service. They will tell five if they've had bad service"
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Call me old-fashioned but I expect acceptable service as the norm. I will praise good service (and actively seek out the appropriate person to provide that praise to much to the annoyance of SWMBO) but conversely I'll also track 'em down to give them pelters.

As I read the OP, he was accused of theft because somebody left the wrong thing on the shelf and OP subsequently picked it up and went to pay for it... whether that someone was a member of staff or a previous shoplifter is not the OP's problem - it's a problem for the manager of the store. It looks to me that it was badly handled by the checkout staff (probably because there was a queue a mile long and one till on) - good CS would have said "ooh, that's not right" and called the manager/supervisor over there and then to sort it out.

On a personal level I wouldn't have accepted the card - I cannot be bought that cheaply.
 
When I worked in retail I was always told that until you cross the threshold you cannot be accused of theft because you still have the opportunity to pay for the item, we were never allowed to challenge anybody until they had left the store.
 
barkingspider said:
When I worked in retail I was always told that until you cross the threshold you cannot be accused of theft because you still have the opportunity to pay for the item, we were never allowed to challenge anybody until they had left the store.
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That sounds about the right way to do it.
 
Beagletorque said:
Well we've all made silly mistakes.

I remember a bloke on here who jumped down a slide and broke both his ankles, cost the NHS a small fortune, all paid for from our taxes, no apology and no free stuff either.....

Mind you, you should of read the abuse he got on the nursing forums.....
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Hmmm... you forgot to mention the RAF and their big yellow helicopter...........(though just checking what i have paid in over the years against the costs incurred.........) I think they (NHS & RAF) are still up.......... Though the relevance of your initial comment eludes me....:shrug:
 
Lynton...Mike...Now Fwit Fwoo. How did that come about?
 
Lynton said:
Hmmm... you forgot to mention the RAF and their big yellow helicopter...........(though just checking what i have paid in over the years against the costs incurred.........) I think they (NHS & RAF) are still up.......... Though the relevance of your initial comment eludes me....:shrug:
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Well rather than the RAF and the NHS telling you you had been really stupid, they accepted you had made a really stupid judgement by jumping down a toy slide and smashing both your ankles and treated you just the same. I don't recall them making a big fuss about such a stupid waste of thier time and resources. And in comparison, you say you were accused of stealing a £10 SD card by a snotty youth, a really silly thing to do (we can accept that) and it is the end of the world as we know it.....

So to sum up, 2 really silly mistakes, different I agree, but can you not see any connection there? Or is this another example of poor judgement....
 
HappySnappy1977 said:
If I'd have been his Manager I would've reprimanded him over that. There's good customer service and then there's laziness. He simply couldn't be bothered to check your receipt and so potentially aided a thief.

I'd be interested to know if the OP goes onto a forum and mentions every bit of good service he's ever had in a shop?

This isn't a slight on the OP but on society in general. "The British public will tell one person if they've had good service. They will tell five if they've had bad service" This used to be on a training video when I worked for DSGI in the 90's. I should imagine one figure has hardly changed now a days however with the dawn of the Internet and forums like this one I bet the other has increased hundred fold.

As I said, not a slight on the OP and I can see why he'd be ****ed in the first place.
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hello Dean,

Yes often I promote good customer service and have been known in the past to ask for the store manager....... generally in somewhere like Tesco's at the CS desk I get "what's wrong?"... repeatedly ask for the store manager, not the dept manager.......... eventually get him (or her... but I am talking my tesco)... and will drag the manager to the dept involved and say "yep Fred was great because of whatever, and I think YOU need to know that because Fred could have done x or y instead of z."
 
Beagletorque said:
Well rather than the RAF and the NHS telling you you had been really stupid, they accepted you had made a really stupid judgement by jumping down a toy slide and smashing both your ankles and treated you just the same. I don't recall them making a big fuss about such a stupid waste of thier time and resources. And in comparison, you say you were accused of stealing a £10 SD card by a snotty youth, a really silly thing to do (we can accept that) and it is the end of the world as we know it.....

So to sum up, 2 really silly mistakes, different I agree, but can you not see any connection there? Or is this another example of poor judgement....
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&drew (well that's a stupid name but hey-ho....)

1) The bouncy slide was certified for both adults and children.

2) What happened was a very unfortunate accident, though there does remain the possibility that the slide was faulty.

3) yes I am struggling to relate 2 broken legs, 2 broken ankles and a heli ride to a SD card...... so please elaborate......

4) not that it is any concern of anyone on here, but as a gesture of gratitude I did make a considerable donation (read that as 3 zeros after the first number and no decimal point) split between 3 local charities relative to my accident....


However, if you could explain your point... I'd be most interested.
 
Lynton said:
&drew (well that's a stupid name but hey-ho....)

1) The bouncy slide was certified for both adults and children.

2) What happened was a very unfortunate accident, though there does remain the possibility that the slide was faulty.

3) yes I am struggling to relate 2 broken legs, 2 broken ankles and a heli ride to a SD card...... so please elaborate......

4) not that it is any concern of anyone on here, but as a gesture of gratitude I did make a considerable donation (read that as 3 zeros after the first number and no decimal point) split between 3 local charities relative to my accident....


However, if you could explain your point... I'd be most interested.
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Almost as stupid as "Lynton NOT Mike" ;)

Lynton, you really are over-reacting here mate. Ok, the colleague may (in your opinion) have over reacted and you may feel aggreived but really....is it worth all the fuss. A mistake happened, you complained, you were compensated...end of! As for you writing a letter to the MD (or whoever) this will not make it past his secretary if she is worth her money for exactly the reason stated before.

Get over it and go take some photo's.

Phil
 
Almost as stupid as "Lynton NOT Mike"

Lynton, you really are over-reacting here mate. Ok, the colleague may (in your opinion) have over reacted and you may feel aggreived but really....is it worth all the fuss. A mistake happened, you complained, you were compensated...end of! As for you writing a letter to the MD (or whoever) this will not make it past his secretary if she is worth her money for exactly the reason stated before.

Get over it and go take some photo's.

Phil
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OK,OK. Let’s knock this on the head. Lynton’s initial post was over-reaction IMHO. Something a lot of us would do after beiing accused of a theif.

My posts have been more of a friendly wind-up, as I thought &ndrew’s were. Comparing an accident Lynton had to someone accusing him to being a theif is funny in jest IMHO, but seriously? Nah! Just another over-reaction without a good reason.

And, I have just commented on a picture by Lynton, so he is taking photos!
 
big soft moose said:
Yeah you're right


Incidentally the otherday i was walking out of tescos with a bunch of shirts (that i'd paid for on the self service) when i set of the alarms - a nice young chap on the customer service desk called me over, found the offending tag and removed it and sent me on my way... didnt ask for a receipt or anything :whistle: so much for all shops treating all customers as potential theives
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Yip. I bought a couple of small items in Tesco at the weekend and paid at a self service point. I put in a £1 coin and some change, but the till didn't register the £1 coin, or reject it either, and was still showing that amount due. Called an assistant, and he just got another £1 coin, put it in, and that was that. No questions or dramas.
 
Not been around for a while, so just enjoyed the banter on here.

Lynton, spot on. Being accused of a thief is not something to take lightly. Yes the mem card is an apology, but it is important to highlight the error higher up the food chain to ensure that it doesn't get repeated. If we all kicked up somekind of fuss when we got crap service in a shop standards would improve.

No the assistant did not make a simple mistake, they made quite a serious accusation. Giving someone the wrong change is a mistake, this is not that.

I don't realy think Lyntons accident can be compared, one being an accident (I'm pretty sure Lynton didn't go through months of agony on purpose) the other being a checkout person making a defamatory statement.

Time to let it lie though methinks.

(y) to Lynton for the donation.
 
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