Plea to film processing companies

ChrisR

ChrisR

I'm a well known grump...
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Chris
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Please guys, this is the 20-teens. Your customer base all have computers, that's why you have web sites. Why make us print off and then hand-fill-in complicated forms?

PDF has a simple forms capability that would allow me to fill in my request on a downloaded form in my computer, and THEN print it off. It's a lot easier for me, and a lot easier for you to read accurately. It wouldn't cost you much; one copy of Adobe Acrobat at most (or get someone to do it for you).

(This plea may be a lot less relevant to many TP readers, but after an accident my writing is difficult, painful, slow and nearly illegible! I'm sure many other film customers have rubbish handwriting as well :D )

Making the forms simpler would also be a good idea. Sometimes I'm really scratching my head trying to work out how to ask for what I want (process and medium res scan, usually; should be simple, no?) amid a raft of conflicting options. BTW a PDF form as described above could work out the cost of the order automatically, which would simplify things still further for you and for us. If you doubt this, my tax return is done via a PDF form that does just that; the form also works out my tax, and when I'm ready it submits itself via the Gov't Gateway! (I really don't know how it does all that!)

And while I'm about it, I get that including a pre-addressed padded Freepost envelope is too expensive for some of the lower-priced companies. But couldn't you at least stick in a couple of your own address labels? I'd be more likely to send back to you!
 
robhooley167 said:
http://www.peak-imaging.com/htmls/downloads.html

You could try Peak Imaging? I assume this is what you are after?
They also send freepost packets when they return your negatives
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No, that looks like a standard printable form that I have to print first then fill out by hand later (AFAICS). Here is the first example of the type of form I'm talking about that I could find with a quick Google search:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf

The Adobe software is at http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/acrobatpro/create-fillable-pdf-forms.html, but there also seem to be online services that will do it for you.

Yes, I got a freepost pack from Club35 too. I guess that part was really aimed at Photo Express, who are good and low cost but didn't even send a label!
 
Where is it you're sending off to, Chris? Peak & Genie don't have anything you need to print out if you're sending them rolls of film.

Also, hope you have a good afternoon if you go and see the torch!

edit: Peak does have an order form you have to print off, but Genie Imaging doesn't; they have an online ordering facility
www.genieimaging.co.uk (www.photos2you.co.uk is the site it redirects you to to order)
 
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I see what you mean now Chris, would be helpful
 
Oh yes. Let's include simple pricing that INCLUDES VAT ...(CC take note)
 
Jakska said:
Where is it you're sending off to, Chris? Peak & Genie don't have anything you need to print out if you're sending them rolls of film.

Also, hope you have a good afternoon if you go and see the torch!

edit: Peak does have an order form you have to print off, but Genie Imaging doesn't; they have an online ordering facility
www.genieimaging.co.uk (www.photos2you.co.uk is the site it redirects you to to order)
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So far, sent film to Fujilabs, Club35 and Photo Express. All wanted hand-filled forms. Peak as well as your edit noted.

Genie's system looks good, and when I was thinking of this earlier, I thought it would be a good end-point. But it needs more IT investment and complete change of internal systems. Could be more efficient, might depend on the number of customer screw-ups you have to fix!

I thought (and still think) the PDF form is a cheap, simple half-way house. Make it efficient for your customer at low cost to the business. Now, the IT guy's motto tends to be "ASQ-not!", translated as "don't Automate the Status Quo". From that point of view, Genie have it right, and I'll certainly be looking at them. But amongst the other labs (where I'd be looking for competitiveness in the, you know, actual film processing for my money business), I could be favourably influenced by some cheapo aids like a PDF form!

On the torch, yes, it passed the end of the next street to ours. Managed to get the lawn mown, then we sloped up there. Under-estimated the number of people, over-estimated my ability to get a decent vantage point, over-estimated the amount of time the torch would actually be visible between the various buses, trucks, police outriders and people. Had trouble finding the "tracking AF" mode, and couldn't see the screeny thing on the back of these new-fangled didgeridoo cameras (that we don't discuss here, obviously), so I think I've a couple of blurry shots of people's hair with something strange happening behind it.:bonk:
 
Deleted. Duplicate post, sorry!
 
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Based on the maxim that it's always worth spending an hour's worth of time on a computer in order to save 5 minutes' work in real life :wacky: , I've solved my immediate problem by creating a derivative of the Photo Express form in Word, and saved a pre-filled copy! This wasn't too bad for their rather simple form, but would be quite hard for some of the others, so I think my basic idea still stands.
 
could you not just edit their form on the PC before printing ?

Even print screen, then add text in a graphics program ?
 
Beats me why they don't do it either.

If they were even more sensible they'd let you pay online via paypal and the order confirmation would have all the details so you could print out a copy and put into the film envelope.
 
srichards said:
Beats me why they don't do it either.

If they were even more sensible they'd let you pay online via paypal and the order confirmation would have all the details so you could print out a copy and put into the film envelope.
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Like Genie have been doing since whenever...:p

TBH that's much the reason I used them, I don't actually own a prnter and writing stuff out is not going to happen!
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
Like Genie have been doing since whenever...:p

TBH that's much the reason I used them, I don't actually own a printer and writing stuff out is not going to happen!
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I've had a second look at the Genie web site; they do look interesting and I like their system. But it's brought up my other grump! I want process and scan, even though I have a scanner, as I can't get such colour accuracy or quality as the professionals. When I scan though, I know what dpi I'm getting, and the pixel size of the resulting image.

<grump>Genie says:

"Dev+Scan Colour Film (E6.C41.(12-18MB) £5.99)"

It's pretty clear they don't mean a 12-18 MB JPEG! I'm guessing they mean 12-18 MB when opened?

I did do an experiment just now, with SilverFast and Aperture. The last image I scanned with SilverFast was rubbish, so I'm not sharing it here, but I scanned at 1800 dpi, and SilverFast gave the file size as 10.95 MB. Aperture shows the same image as 2409 × 1589 (3.8 MP), and the JPEG as 839 KB (lots of darkness in that image, seriously under-exposed!). Ignoring the JPEG which is disturbed by compression, it looks like with 8-bit colour depth we have 3 bytes per pixel, so I should simply divide the file sizes quoted by Genie etc by 3 to get a rough pixel count. That would imply 4-6 MP images, which is probably enough for most purposes.

But why do I have to "do the math" to work all that out? Why coudn't they just tell me?

(If I'm right, black and white images would scan at the same pixel count but have 1/3 the "file size"! Truth in advertising, folks.)

It's even worse when they quote scan resolutions in terms of a print size, without saying what the implied print pixel density is (I've seen 72 and 300 used; there's a big difference).

</grump> :bang:

I must be missing something! When everyone else is out of step, one should be suspicious! :thinking:
 
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I think that it is much better to pick your own processor and place your order and then decide on the performance of the company when you receive your negs/prints/scans back. based on time,quality presentation and feel good factor.

It is very difficult for someone else to say to you what is good or not, I use Photo Express in Hull for all my colour and C41 B&W and I love there performance to others it my be CARP.

Just go out there and do your thing and then post your experiences on here that will also help all of us.

Richard.
 
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So far, sent film to Fujilabs, Club35 and Photo Express. All wanted hand-filled forms.

Chris that is not correct, you can send the appropriate films to Photo Express with a phone number and you will receive a call immediately to ask you what you wish for, give you a price and confirm payment on-line, now that is service.
 
My last post in this thread is that the high price companies for what we require generally are not that much better for what you or I require!!!!!!!!!

Maybe it is a bit of an EGO trip, LOL. :)
 
I also wish that they would make there forms simpler and, if possible, on-line. I've got used to Club 35 forms now but some of the others are almost incomprehensible.
Show us the price with VAT included, simplify the pricing structure and make it on-line and payable with paypal or by credit/debit card. Simples.

Andy
 
medwaygreen said:
Chris that is not correct, you can send the appropriate films to Photo Express with a phone number and you will receive a call immediately to ask you what you wish for, give you a price and confirm payment on-line, now that is service.
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I didn't know that; good news indeed!

You're also right in another post, we should rely on experience with the film processing rather than this other stuff. My problem is I haven't got through too many films yet, and just when I thought I was happy with my selection (Photo Express) I found I couldn't send them my first roll of HP5 (or my next rolls of E6) so had to start hunting around again. The film processing sticky in this forum is a good starting point, but you have to look at each company and ferret around their web sites to find out what services they off (C41, E6, BW, scans of what resolution) and prices. Ah well, thnks for listening to my grumpiness, folks! :bonk:
 
ChrisR said:
I didn't know that; good news indeed!

You're also right in another post, we should rely on experience with the film processing rather than this other stuff. My problem is I haven't got through too many films yet, and just when I thought I was happy with my selection (Photo Express) I found I couldn't send them my first roll of HP5 (or my next rolls of E6) so had to start hunting around again. The film processing sticky in this forum is a good starting point, but you have to look at each company and ferret around their web sites to find out what services they off (C41, E6, BW, scans of what resolution) and prices. Ah well, thnks for listening to my grumpiness, folks! :bonk:
Click to expand...

(y)(y)(y):clap:
 
ChrisR said:
Please guys, this is the 20-teens. Your customer base all have computers, that's why you have web sites. Why make us print off and then hand-fill-in complicated forms?

PDF has a simple forms capability that would allow me to fill in my request on a downloaded form in my computer, and THEN print it off. It's a lot easier for me, and a lot easier for you to read accurately. It wouldn't cost you much; one copy of Adobe Acrobat at most (or get someone to do it for you).

(This plea may be a lot less relevant to many TP readers, but after an accident my writing is difficult, painful, slow and nearly illegible! I'm sure many other film customers have rubbish handwriting as well :D )

Making the forms simpler would also be a good idea. Sometimes I'm really scratching my head trying to work out how to ask for what I want (process and medium res scan, usually; should be simple, no?) amid a raft of conflicting options. BTW a PDF form as described above could work out the cost of the order automatically, which would simplify things still further for you and for us. If you doubt this, my tax return is done via a PDF form that does just that; the form also works out my tax, and when I'm ready it submits itself via the Gov't Gateway! (I really don't know how it does all that!)

And while I'm about it, I get that including a pre-addressed padded Freepost envelope is too expensive for some of the lower-priced companies. But couldn't you at least stick in a couple of your own address labels? I'd be more likely to send back to you!
Click to expand...

This pee's me off as well. Sending off the films to Peak Imaging is the worst part of the experience for me because I loathe filling out forms (I get more and more annoyed as I go along, it's not good really), and it's very 1995 esque filling out a mail order form like that. Oh well, can't be helped.

With Peak you even have to work out your OWN prices, and YOU tell THEM how much to charge you... I couldn't believe me eyes the first time i saw their order form!
 
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No doubt about it, the clunkiness just really isn't acceptable in this day and age. But these companies deal with a relatively low throughput and only a select few customers, so they have no pressing need to increase their efficiency on this front sadly.

The Fuji Processing Burnley form was relatively simple, but still a pain to have to do especially considering how adept they are at their online presence (the regularly respond to queries on their Facebook page and website isn't too bad). Genie Imaging's online system is pretty 1995 - but these places still get the business, so what's it to them!
 
I have only used Peak so far, but filling the form in seems fairly straight forward to me (takes a couple if minutes tops).
 
Do you work out all the prices like the form asks or just let them debit your card with the amount they add up? This is the part that most annoys me as I have to re-check the price list before I send films off (to check the prices haven't changed) which usually means downloading it again. Its such a bore!
 
Imho the only thing i consider when using a lab is the processing quailty. Just happens Peak is my chosen lab after considering many others. I would guess filling a form in is pretty standard mail order practice(i could be behind the times though!). However how about having to purchase jiffy bags, filling out the labs address on the front, walking into a post office to send etc. Peak have this side sorted with the freepost box they send after your first order.
 
trencheel303 said:
Do you work out all the prices like the form asks or just let them debit your card with the amount they add up? This is the part that most annoys me as I have to re-check the price list before I send films off (to check the prices haven't changed) which usually means downloading it again. Its such a bore!
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To be honest my orders have been very similar and I have become familiar with the pricing so find it easier to work out. I suppose if you are sending larger quantities etc it could become more complicated.
 
In another thread someone suggested it was suspicious that 2 newbies both recommended the same scanning company. This may be true however this does look like a good idea.

Andy
 
For a 30mb 16 bit scan, £10 is not actually too bad as this is the sort of scanning where high quality, high resolution scans are required and are designed to squeeze as much out of the neg/slide as possible, its not supposed to be for everyday applications!
 
you could drop them in at Tesco's (y) 99p dev only
(other supermarkets available :) )
 
I read Genie's file sizes as being lowest possible compression JPEG which would make them around 8-12Megapixels worth in digicam speak. I didn't avail myself of their scanning so cannot comment.

Also, I had an email this morning from AG who are now doing C41 and E6 Xpro developing too, £2.99 a roll till the end of the month with online ordering.
 
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