Beginner Please Help if Possible.

Roy1212

Roy1212

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Roy Newport
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I live in Bath with great views over the city from the surrounding hill,I want to photo my Falcons with the Back ground( the City) in focus as well as my birds.thank you.Roy.

This is the best I've achieved.View attachment 44637
 
Hi

Sorry not an expert so wait for other to reply but using a higher f stop like f16 may help get everything in focus.

What f stop was used for the attached photo, I cannot see the exif as am using the phone app.

Thanks

Kev
 
Tell us what equipment and settings you are using :)
 
Canon 7d mkii,lens all L ,100 f2.8 macro,24-105 f4, 70-200 f4. I've tried from f8 - to f22.Iso to suit.
 
It looks to me like your either using the longer focal lengths or are zoomed in and your in a fairly small area not far from the bird , therefore zooming in or using tele lens you are going to struggle as the dof is just not going to be there. Try it using the 24-105 at f11 but at 24mm then crop the photo instead of zooming.
 
Royroy1111 said:
Canon 7d mkii,lens all L ,100 f2.8 macro,24-105 f4, 70-200 f4. I've tried from f8 - to f22.Iso to suit.
Click to expand...

As a test, try the 24-105 at the 24mm end and at f8 ... I would be very surprised if you don't get the background at least discernible, you can then adjust the focal length to see what you need.
Using a wider aperture or longer focal length lens will tend to throw the background more out of focus.
 
You're going to struggle, frankly. Particularly with that kind of composition. If you can get further back and use a shorter focal length, tight aperture you might get something. But the bird will have to be much smaller in the frame.

If you want the bird as prominent as it is here you're probably going to have to look at creating a composite.

For what it's worth, I'm not convinced having both the bird and city in focus will work with the composition you've used above. It will be very messy.
 
Thank you,I think that photo was taken with a 100-400 that I no longer have but will try your settings thanks.
 
First of all plug some figures in here, camera to subject distance , FL of lens , f stop etc


http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

That will give you the DOF together with an graphic of what will and will not be in focus and then you can adjust accordingly.
BTW the shot you have posted of a Harris Hawk ? is great a bit of fill flash would have helped to made the bird stand out but IMHO having the background in focus would detract from the shot, assuming that the subject is the hawk
 
Dof chart is great but don't forget to set hyperfocal distance manually. For instance using the 50mm at f16 everything from 9ft to infinity will be in focus with focusing at 17ft.
I think it will detract from the beauty of the bird though.
 
Out as soon as the rain stops to give it a go.thank you.
 
Remember the biggest contributing factor in DoF is the relative distances between camera and subject, and subject and background.

But as above, remember we use DSLR's precisely because they can throw a background out of focus, because your phone (which puts almost everything in focus) creates pictures that mean it's more difficult to concentrate the viewers attention on the subject.
As Andrew said, you'll have to think hard about a composition which makes this work.
 
How far are you from the bird?
What was the focal length and aperture size?
 
I tried all focal lengths from f8 -f18 the bird was about 8 feet away from me.
 
Focal length would be e.g. 24mm, f8 is aperture :)
Try 24mm at f8, at 8 feet and see what you get.
 
Has your camera a DoF preview button? That lets you see the depth of field in the viewfinder (or LCD) before taking the shot. It will be easier if you can borrow a wider angle lens from a friend.
 
Royroy1111 said:
I tried all focal lengths from f8 -f18 the bird was about 8 feet away from me.
Click to expand...
Who'd have known...
Phil V said:
Remember the biggest contributing factor in DoF is the relative distances between camera and subject, and subject and background.
...
Click to expand...

Oh yeah.

The problem with the inter webs is that people rely on crutches like DoF charts, then get mixed up about what's important ( focal length), when the actual important issue is as I stated earlier. See also 'zooming with your feet' and 'crop factor equivalent' and 'dpi vs resolution'.
 
Royroy1111 said:
I live in Bath with great views over the city from the surrounding hill,I want to photo my Falcons with the Back ground( the City) in focus as well as my birds.thank you.
Click to expand...

Maybe take two pictures from the same distance? One with the bird and one without and focusing on the background and then merge the two, but... dunno if it'll look good with the background and the bird sharpish. The bird might get a bit lost in the background detail.

PS. Just on the answer of shooting at 24mm with smaller aperture. To get the same framing you'd have to move forward and reduce the camera to bird distance and as the DoF is the same for the same framing (you move forward with the wide angle and thus reduce the DoF over what it would be if you stood at the same distance you shot with the tele.) you might be no better off but what you will have is a different perspective. As Andrew says, you could shoot with a wide angle from tele distance and crop and thus keep the bird / background size relationships.
 
I agree with what you say about people relying on crutches like dof if that's what they always do but this guy stated he is a beginner and looking at a chart will get him to understand the relationship between lens , dof, distance, etc.
 
Just to add to what others have said,you also need to consider that if you use a wider focal length and move closer, this can also exaggerate the proportions of the subject. To see what I mean take a picture of a face at 24mm from and frame for full body, then walk forward so only the head is in the frame and compare the 2 images, the shorter focal length will naturally distort the face.
 
gerry s said:
I agree with what you say about people relying on crutches like dof if that's what they always do but this guy stated he is a beginner and looking at a chart will get him to understand the relationship between lens , dof, distance, etc.
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Which is all fine, except, the answer to the OPs issue is to get the bird closer to the background (as I stated), and the difficulty then is to create a reasonable composition as Andrew and I both stated.

But read all the 'help' on this thread and it'd be difficult to deduce that.

Cue me now looking like an arrogant arse for slagging off the other posters and pointing out how right I was :(

There's no easy way to wrap that up though.
 
Which he would have discovered by looking at a chart. (ie 50mm at f16 focusing at 17ft gives dof 9ft to infinity)
;)
 
gerry s said:
Which he would have discovered by looking at a chart. (ie 50mm at f16 focusing at 17ft gives dof 9ft to infinity)
;)
Click to expand...
What would a bird of prey look like at 50mm from 17ft?
 
I'll let you know tomorrow,that's about 70 mm on my 7d mkii?
 
Phil V said:
What would a bird of prey look like at 50mm from 17ft?
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I suppose it depends on the size of the bird :D but I think it'd be rather small in the frame, maybe 20/25% the height of a landscape frame? Might look ok as a heavy crop assuming there's enough resolution. It's not impossible that it'd look acceptable. I can get 100% crops from MFT that I'm happy with and if the OP only wants a full screen image or a smallish print things might be ok.
 
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Phil V said:
Which is all fine, except, the answer to the OPs issue is to get the bird closer to the background (as I stated), and the difficulty then is to create a reasonable composition as Andrew and I both stated.

But read all the 'help' on this thread and it'd be difficult to deduce that.

Cue me now looking like an arrogant arse for slagging off the other posters and pointing out how right I was :(

There's no easy way to wrap that up though.
Click to expand...
Arrogance asside moving the bird closer to the background and/or changing focal lengths and camera to subject distances all alter what's in the shot and the relative sizes in the frame. As someone said earlier, maybe the answer could be to use a smaller format camera.
 
Royroy1111 said:
I'll let you know tomorrow,that's about 70 mm on my 7d mkii?
Click to expand...
The 7D is a 1.6 crop camera so 50mm FF is about 30mm on a 7D but note that the DoF table linked is for a 7D so no crop to worry about.
 
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Phil V said:
What would a bird of prey look like at 50mm from 17ft?
Click to expand...
Dunno.... Probably even smaller than it would have looked at 9ft.... 17ft is the hyperfocal distance.... Just trying to help the op achieve what HE wanted to do. His choice not mine...
 
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Brilliant Lez,if I give you a back ground could you do it for me?
 
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