product lighting, how to improve this- UPDATED with product shots

TinySpark

TinySpark

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Name
Melissa
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Hi all,

I've been asked to do a product shoot on Wednesday so I borrowed some studio lighting from the very kind Jonesy_ni and got it all set up today.
I'll post photos of the set up below to illustrate.. Its basically to flash heads fitted with diffusers, camera on tripod in the middle.
It's all working and i'm using my camera bag as my dummy model!
So since I'm a total newbie to this, I thought i would post a picture from my first attempt and you guys will be able to tell me what needs changing..

(note i haven't spent long playing with this yet, thought i'd get some tips first.. first results are not great!)

Here's the set up.. (reflector in first shot but didn't noticed any difference with it there, perhaps it needs repositioned.)

DSCF0064.jpg
DSCF0070.jpg


And here's my first result...
exampleproduct1.jpg


I can already see that I need to fix the white balance as there is a purple tone on the white backdrop..
So what else wrong with this in your opinion and how should i change the lights or camera settings to better my results..
Also I wasn't sure how much power to use on the actual studio lights, any tips?
How do I get rid of bottom shadow?

Camera settings on this picture:
ISO: 100
Aperture: f/10
Shutter Speed: 1/30 sec
Focal length: 45mm

I will photographing different products (computer hard drives and things) so this is just to give me an idea of how the different settings affect the image and what I should aim for.
Any help is appreciated as I really need to prepare for the shoot and have a lot to learn!

PS- just as a disclaimer.. I'm not expecting nor aiming for amazing, totally professional results, but the client doesn't require this. I just want decent results well lit products they will find acceptable. You can check my previous thread for more details.
 
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Hello.
The bag needs a good wipe down as its dirty. (I know what your thinking; so what its only a test, but you need to get this in your mind before you start as it makes good practice, then when you see something dirty, you naturally wipe it clean.)
Like you have mentioned, the white balance needs adjusting.
I would be inclined to get rid of the strap for the initial shot, then show accessories. (again product depending.)

Have you any lights over head? if so what kind are they and are they brighter than your lights?
 
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your sensor has dust

you need to light the background separately to the product

the scale of the background setup vs. the product is too small
 
markyboy.1967 said:
Not great with lighting myself but i would be picking a subject matter which would be similar colouring etc to the product you will be photographing if you havent already.
Click to expand...

The colour of the subject doesn't matter, what does matter is shape, texture and reflectivity, so your test subject is of no use to you whatever. I thought that I (and others) had made that clear in replies to your post in the business forum, sorry if I didn't make it clear enough - you need to practice with photographing painted boxes, similar to computer cases, if you want to do a reasonably adequate job for this client. You've got very similar products on the floor, only just out of shot - why on earth didn't you use those?
Also, where the subject includes its own light source you'll need to juggle shutter speed to make it show up, and of course this means that you won't be able to use the modelling lamps and will need to exclude all other lighting, i.e. you'll have to work in the dark

When you do proper tests, you'll see that your current lighting setup won't work. The lights will need to be set at angles that show a sheen on the surface, not a direct reflection. It's pretty easy to work out, just remember the law that the angle of reflection equals the angle of incidence.

The background is far too small, the subject will need a fair bit of space between it and the background (which of course will involve extra lighting for the background)

I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at the cause of the colour pollution, there are just so many different possibilities.
1. Reflections from the coloured floor
2. Reflections from the coloured walls
3. Incorrect camera settings
4. Incorrect or inconsistent colour temperature from your light sources. That particular make may well cause these problems.

As for your reflector not doing much, how could it?
Reflectors reflect light, and if you don't place it at the correct angle and don't place it in the path of some light it will obviously struggle to reflect back light that it isn't receiving.

These are just a few of the really obvious points, I could go on in detail and could write a book about product lighting...
Hang on, I have - and I suggested in the other thread that you either buy it or buy a copy of Light: Science & Magic. I very strongly suggest that you buy something, because if you don't get an understanding of how lighting works you'll find yourself seriously out of your depth.
 
mastertrinity said:
I would recommend spot metering and then overexposing or under exposing if needs be, but because the bag is black in most of the photo it should overexpose if using spot meter.
Click to expand...

Metering is the least of the problems, but if we're going to address that particular subject the best method by far is incident metering, using a flat receptor pressed against the various elevations of the subject. This method will automatically take into account the effects of cosine law. No other method will do that.
 
thanks for replies so far!!

markyboy.1967 said:
Not great with lighting myself but i would be picking a subject matter which would be similar colouring etc to the product you will be photographing if you havent already.
Click to expand...

yeah you're right, gonna grab something more similar now.. :)


Lunaticsamurai said:
Have you any lights over head? if so what kind are they and are they brighter than your lights?
Click to expand...

no it's just the 2 studio side lights here..?


Richard King said:
your sensor has dust

you need to light the background separately to the product

the scale of the background setup vs. the product is too small
Click to expand...

I have an extra studio light head i could use for the background, but no bulb so I'll need to see if i can buy one in a nearby shop first! otherwise i'll try try to blow it out..
Not the best size of surface I agree, my house is chaotic at the moment as there is a lot of redecorating going on so a small table was all i could find..
The backdrop is hanging on the wall by a nail, don't have a stand for it.
I'll be bringing all my equipment up to the company's building and since they have had this done before I expect they will have adequate surfaces to use, I've asked about it before and the guy said I'll be fine.
 
Garry Edwards said:
The colour of the subject doesn't matter, what does matter is shape, texture and reflectivity, so your test subject is of no use to you whatever. I thought that I (and others) had made that clear in replies to your post in the business forum, sorry if I didn't make it clear enough - you need to practice with photographing painted boxes, similar to computer cases, if you want to do a reasonably adequate job for this client. You've got very similar products on the floor, only just out of shot - why on earth didn't you use those?
Also, where the subject includes its own light source you'll need to juggle shutter speed to make it show up, and of course this means that you won't be able to use the modelling lamps and will need to exclude all other lighting, i.e. you'll have to work in the dark

When you do proper tests, you'll see that your current lighting setup won't work. The lights will need to be set at angles that show a sheen on the surface, not a direct reflection. It's pretty easy to work out, just remember the law that the angle of reflection equals the angle of incidence.

The background is far too small, the subject will need a fair bit of space between it and the background (which of course will involve extra lighting for the background)

I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at the cause of the colour pollution, there are just so many different possibilities.
1. Reflections from the coloured floor
2. Reflections from the coloured walls
3. Incorrect camera settings
4. Incorrect or inconsistent colour temperature from your light sources. That particular make may well cause these problems.

As for your reflector not doing much, how could it?
Reflectors reflect light, and if you don't place it at the correct angle and don't place it in the path of some light it will obviously struggle to reflect back light that it isn't receiving.

These are just a few of the really obvious points, I could go on in detail and could write a book about product lighting...
Hang on, I have - and I suggested in the other thread that you either buy it or buy a copy of Light: Science & Magic. I very strongly suggest that you buy something, because if you don't get an understanding of how lighting works you'll find yourself seriously out of your depth.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I've been at it all afternoon and I've used those, dvd players etc.. So just trying to figure out the best way of lighting them.
I know that the set up isn't correct, hence the reason why I posted this thread. I'm looking for friendly advice about how to position the lights and reflector etc.
Like you said before, the company's previous product shots weren't exactly professional quality, and I think the shots I've achieved in the meantime match their standards at least so I'm confident the company will still be happy enough with the results and I'll still get paid, but I just want to improve the shots for myself mostly and learn something.
I know you've suggested the books, and when I have some spare change about I will probably buy one, but I find I learn better from doing it myself, watching video tutorials and reading the same sort of things the book will include on the net.
I appreciate your advice but can't understand why you word your posts in a rather angry tone, I have read everything you have said previously but i have limitations (money is one of them), but I have a willingness to learn and accept that there is a lot of learning I'll have to do before I get anywhere near a professional standard.
 
I'm sorry if I sound angry, that isn't the intention and I'm trying to help you.

But you'll learn little or nothing from forum posts or video tutorials, especially when the people who produce the advice sometimes know a lot less than they think they do, but mainly because you need to understand the principles of lighting, and NOT understanding the principles is what is causing you the greatest problem.
Lack of money, lack of experience, lack of equipment are all far less important than lack of knowlege.
 
Okay just quick picture update..
sort of off-topic but here's the new camera bag shot.. white balance and exposure improved a bit, still stinking dirty though :p

DSC06061.jpg


And here's the CD player and speakers I was shooting.. need some help trying to figure out best way to light them with the reflections and things.. I had one light left sligtly above and one right slightly above, and reflector right above to light the top..
Not exactly right.. but these products will be more like the ones i'm shooting on the day.

DSC06098.jpg
 
That's a heck of a lot better! I hope you gain some encouragement that you are at least moving in the right direction. I'm glad you managed to borrow some lights because your original plan was really worrying! There is still a bit of uneven lighting going on on the right as I look at it, I can see the edge of the image but it is SO much better already.

There is always more to learn but at least you have now got to the point where you can do better then their originals so well done you for sticking with it.

Now, just listen to Garry, he has probably forgotten more about lighting that I've ever learned! ;)
 
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1. Your starting point is a large softbox directly above and pointing forward at the angle that deflects the inevitable reflection away from the lens.
2. Angle each speaker equally, so that the sides can be seen, and light each side, again with a large softbox at whatever angle is needed. Each light will be more or less from the front/side.
3. Only if necessary, place a 4th light as fill, immediately behind the camera.
4. Only if necessary, place a 5th light with a honeycomb or gobo fitted, to play onto the bright front area, but avoiding an unpleasant specular highlight.
5. Turn the display on and capture it by using a long exposure - better and easier to do it in a single shot, but if you prefer you could drop it in later in PS
 
Your first image after 30 seconds PP

examp1.jpg


Click on create levels adjustment layer.
Click on above layer's mask
Click on select colour
> Drag the slider for fuzziness to left.
> Hold SHIFT and move the colour dropper around the white
> Click OK
Click on the right hand slider under the levels graph and slide it to the left until the entire background is white.

DONE

EDIT: BUT if you can get the lighting right first then that is MUCH better :)
 
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Getting better!

I think the silver colour on the little hi-fi is quite reflective, prob not easiest to do, but you never know what might get thrown at you at the shoot!

Your wee set-up looks good!
 
cowasaki said:
Your first image after 30 seconds PP

examp1.jpg


Click on create levels adjustment layer.
Click on above layer's mask
Click on select colour
> Drag the slider for fuzziness to left.
> Hold SHIFT and move the colour dropper around the white
> Click OK
Click on the right hand slider under the levels graph and slide it to the left until the entire background is white.

DONE

EDIT: BUT if you can get the lighting right first then that is MUCH better :)
Click to expand...

awesome, thanks for that! :)
 
TinySpark said:
awesome, thanks for that! :)
Click to expand...

Doing it with PP is never as good as getting it right or nearly right in camera.

I would probably flatten the image at this point and then nudge up the exposure 1/3 - 2/3 stop.

The above technique will be find for things with such a big contrast in colour but things with less of a contrast will be more difficult.
 
ive split the discussion on training courses to a new thread, lets leave this one on topic please
 
I think its coming on rightly, just out of interest, what WB settings have you changed too? or is it a custom setting? I too have the whole grey background thing when taking photos for ebay etc..
 
Ok... PANIC :( I was taking some pictures for banter and this started happening..

started off like this..
DSC06182.jpg


then it grew, wtf!
DSC06197.jpg




I swapped lenses over and the problem is still there..
I cleaned the CCD and it's still there too.. AHHH!
 
You are using 1/320th second on the second image. You need to try maybe 1/200th second.
 
Way too high. Set the shutter speed to 1/125th.
And you might want to lower the camera, high camera positions make the subject look insignificant
 
ah thank you! i was panicking a lot there, yeah I was just mucking about for the portraits, i might have another go this week before they go back to their owner!
 
Hmm.. still having troubles with reflections on the hi-fi player..

I have 3 lights.. 2 with soft boxes and one with a reflective umbrella, and a reflector..how would you position them?
 
TinySpark said:
Hmm.. still having troubles with reflections on the hi-fi player..

I have 3 lights.. 2 with soft boxes and one with a reflective umbrella, and a reflector..how would you position them?
Click to expand...

See post 13
 
Garry Edwards said:
See post 13
Click to expand...

Oh yes thank you, however I do not have that number of lights and some of those light modifiers.. So if I have one light with softbox above and directly in front, one light with softbox from front/right hand side, light with umbrella on left hand side to try to balance light out, and use a reflector for wherever is needed, could this maybe work you reckon then?
 
No, post 13 suggests a light above and facing forwards, that means above and behind, not above and in front.

Your other lights, front left and front right (at the correct angles) and a reflector in front and below to catch the spare light from the overhead softbox, may well do the trick, although I have doubts about the umbrella light.

For this to work, the overhead light will need to be at a pretty acute angle, this will reduce the amount of light reflected from the top (see cosine law) and leave plenty left over for the reflector. The problem with having it at an acute angle of course is that it may create lens flare. Therefore that softbox light should be fitted with a honeycomb, but you don't have one so you'll have to hope that a good lens hood will do the job for you. If not you'll have to either spend some money or arrange the lights differently and do a poor job
 
All the best with your shoot tomorrow.Hopefully all the practise will pay off
 
just to update you..

had the photoshoot today, went well :) the client is very happy so far (previewed a few images for them)
However the list of items to photograph grew and grew AND they thought they would add a few portraits in there, so I'm back there tomorrow again to finish off, adjusted price accordingly ;)
Plenty of work ahead of me but you know what, it's a great learning experience and it helps that it pays well. thanks for everyones help here with this too by the way! :)
 
TinySpark said:
just to update you..

had the photoshoot today, went well :) the client is very happy so far (previewed a few images for them)
However the list of items to photograph grew and grew AND they thought they would add a few portraits in there, so I'm back there tomorrow again to finish off, adjusted price accordingly ;)
Plenty of work ahead of me but you know what, it's a great learning experience and it helps that it pays well. thanks for everyones help here with this too by the way! :)
Click to expand...

Happy days, well done!
 
So i know it's been like 2 months since i did the shoot, but I thought I'd upload some of the pictures of the products i took that day here so you guys can tell me what you think.
I'm glad I did the shoot, I got experience and I got paid and the client was very happy. However I know the images aren't perfect but I'm working on that! :)

So critique would be great, as they want me to take more product shots for them.

ALSO took portraits of boxers that they are sponsoring, 3 of these shots can be seen on my flickr.. (link in siggy)

(random selection showing range of products)

1
Screenshot2010-10-28at202845.png


2
Screenshot2010-10-28at203154.png


3
Screenshot2010-10-28at200221.png


4
Screenshot2010-10-28at200330.png


5
Screenshot2010-10-28at200121.png
 
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seems to have worked, though if i can be a little picky, a couple look a bit soft, any post processing applied?
 
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