Critique Red Robin (now revised as advised)....

[RedRobin]

^ Canon 70D, Canon 70-200mm f4L IS + 1.4x, 263mm, ISO 400, f6.3, 1/160, Av-mode. I'm a beginner to DSLR but not to photography.

I had to step back quickly to grab this shot of my resident Robin in my garden.

All comments welcome.



IMAGE EDITED - 26th January 2014:

^ Like chalk and cheese?

More comments welcome - I need my homework marked, please

 

[jakeblu]

A red robin by the redrobin nice

Some people hate these but I am always pleased to see them in the garden. Its a good pose and well caught but it seems a bit noisy to my eye, cant see the exif to see what your setting where but I am assuming high iso.

Steve

 

[sbowler579]

Lovely sharp and colourful image, very nice indeed.

 

[u8myufo]

What do you want to hear about this shot Robin? I only ask as I read with interest your thoughts on noise in the other thread. It would be a good idea perhaps for you to give a little bit of info about the shot, what is it you like about it and what you think could be improved.

 

[Trev4]

Robins are one of the most popular birds in the UK, however, there's a couple of members on here who will disagree I like them though. The image does look noisy, and at iso 400 on a 70D it surprises me. You say you had to step back, so I assume its not a big crop, that again makes me wonder where the noise has come from. It can be corrected by noiseware or similar though.
The other thing that bothers me is the composition. There seems too much wasted space at the top, and too much of the perch at the bottom, yet not enough room for the bird to look into. I would suggest turning this into a landscape rather than a portrait orientation, that in itself would improve the image in my opinion. Hope this helps.

 

[RedRobin]

A red robin by the redrobin nice

Some people hate these but I am always pleased to see them in the garden. Its a good pose and well caught but it seems a bit noisy to my eye, cant see the exif to see what your setting where but I am assuming high iso.

Steve

....Thanks, Steve.

The ISO is 400 (quite low for me so far as I'm mostly practicing on my Canon 400mm f5.6L at ISO 1600). The EXIF is posted under the image.

I don't understand why some people would hate this species. They co-habit with other birds - at least they do so in my garden - and they sing very sweetly indeed. Also they are easier subjects for photography practice.

 

[jakeblu]

....Thanks, Steve.

The ISO is 400 (quite low for me so far as I'm mostly practicing on my Canon 400mm f5.6L at ISO 1600). The EXIF is posted under the image.

dont know how I missed that under the image

Steve

 

[RedRobin]

The image does look noisy, and at iso 400 on a 70D it surprises me. You say you had to step back, so I assume its not a big crop, that again makes me wonder where the noise has come from. It can be corrected by noiseware or similar though.

The other thing that bothers me is the composition. There seems too much wasted space at the top, and too much of the perch at the bottom, yet not enough room for the bird to look into. I would suggest turning this into a landscape rather than a portrait orientation, that in itself would improve the image in my opinion. Hope this helps.

....Yes, the noise is perhaps more than you would expect from ISO 400 but I am happy with that aspect - Many, probably most, photographers don't like any noise but I like what visual texture it can bring to a background or bokeh. It's just a personal preference and not a right or wrong. Most of the noiseware I've seen applied tends to be overdone and too obvious - Not always of course.

The original image is landscape but there's a very ugly post to the left which I cropped away and then cropped to the right to make a 7 x 5 proportion - I don't like 3 x 2 in portrait proportion.

I can see what you are saying, Trev, and although I don't dislike my cropping I will see if I can improve it according to your suggestions.

 

[RedRobin]

dont know how I missed that under the image

Steve

....Obviously written too far south (that it's deep north)

 

[Trev4]

....Yes, the noise is perhaps more than you would expect from ISO 400 but I am happy with that aspect - Many, probably most, photographers don't like any noise but I like what visual texture it can bring to a background or bokeh. It's just a personal preference and not a right or wrong. Most of the noiseware I've seen applied tends to be overdone and too obvious - Not always of course.

The original image is landscape but there's a very ugly post to the left which I cropped away and then cropped to the right to make a 7 x 5 proportion - I don't like 3 x 2 in portrait proportion.

I can see what you are saying, Trev, and although I don't dislike my cropping I will see if I can improve it according to your suggestions.

Fair comment Robin, it supports what I said on another thread earlier this evening that a lot of these things are subjective and that often there is no right or wrong, only our own perception of an image.
Regarding noiseware, it can look overdone I agree, but when I use it I generally use it selectively rather than on the whole image, that way the end result doesn't affect the main subject in the shot, and when applied cautiously the BG can look good.

 

[RedRobin]

What do you want to hear about this shot Robin? I only ask as I read with interest your thoughts on noise in the other thread. It would be a good idea perhaps for you to give a little bit of info about the shot, what is it you like about it and what you think could be improved.

....Certainly I am happy to say what I like about it but this area of the TP forum is for feedback and critique and so I would rather hear what others have to say first.

So, if you have any comments?.....

But it's also fine if you don't

Re the noise subject: My thoughts are as described in Reply #8.

 

[Judi]

Robin. I would be very happy to get one like that

 

[RedRobin]

Regarding noiseware, it can look overdone I agree, but when I use it I generally use it selectively rather than on the whole image, that way the end result doesn't affect the main subject in the shot, and when applied cautiously the BG can look good.

....I'm still learning (since December) my 70D and 2 telephoto/zoom lenses with a Macro 100L waiting in the wings for the mini-beast season. So I haven't got as far as considering noiseware but anyway as I have said, I quite like a bit of noise - It depends on the image.

This Robin image is my first ever go at using Photoshop to sharpen with the High Pass Filter - One step at a time!

 

[u8myufo]

....Certainly I am happy to say what I like about it but this area of the TP forum is for feedback and critique and so I would rather hear what others have to say first.

So, if you have any comments?.....

But it's also fine if you don't

Re the noise subject: My thoughts are as described in Reply #8.

Ok then as you ask, the crop has already been pointed out to you, the bg is noisy which you are happy with. The subject itself is slightly oof as well as looking really grainy even at full size, again perhaps the grain effect is something you are happy with, but for a static shot of a Robin and considering that lens, image quality should be much better. Your shutter speed should be equivelant if not greater than the focal length that you are using, 200=1/200, 300=1/300 etc etc. Did you use a tripod or a solid resting point for this shot or the monopod? If you used the monopod then more often than not you will end up with an image of this quality at those settings. I am not sure how much PP work you are doing, but if you are not already aware then you need to make all your adjustments first and then some slight sharpening at the very end to allow for web display. You say you had to step back with this shot, could you not have zoomed back a bit instead? I also wonder if you were that close if you had the lens set to minimum focus distance? If it was set to 3m to infinity this may have been the cause of the slightly oof issue with you being so near.

 

[RedRobin]

Ok then as you ask, the crop has already been pointed out to you

....I have looked at the crop following Trev's post #5 and I have given the maximum space for the bird 'to look into' that I can while avoiding a very ugly and hence dominant post - It could possibly be Photoshop'd out but that would be a lot of work to do properly and not worthwhile for this photo.

The image you see is the full height of the original landscape shot and I really like the blues and greens in both the top and bottom of the background bokeh. I had considered cropping square but would have then lost those very attractive elements. Furthermore, cropping so closely to the bird loses all the atmosphere of its environmental setting - I have tried it.

For me, photography is capturing and creating an image and picture and not just a technically perfect record. Achieving both is my holy grail.

the bg is noisy which you are happy with.

....Indeed I am, very happy with the background. As I have given reasons for earlier in this discussion. Personally I do not worship at the altar of no-noise-allowed and this is a very subjective subject in which there is no right or wrong, in my opinion.

The subject itself is slightly oof as well as looking really grainy even at full size, again perhaps the grain effect is something you are happy with, but for a static shot of a Robin and considering that lens, image quality should be much better. Your shutter speed should be equivelant if not greater than the focal length that you are using, 200=1/200, 300=1/300 etc etc. Did you use a tripod or a solid resting point for this shot or the monopod? If you used the monopod then more often than not you will end up with an image of this quality at those settings.

....This shot was handheld and grabbed very quickly indeed and without the time to consider and change my shutter speed. I just had time to focus and snap.

Why would using a monopod end up with an image of this quality at those settings, please? (The shot was handheld and completely unsupported).

I am not sure how much PP work you are doing, but if you are not already aware then you need to make all your adjustments first and then some slight sharpening at the very end to allow for web display.

....I always try and do minimal PP work but this was shot in RAW, tweaked in Apple's Aperture and finally High Pass Filter sharpened (my last process) as a TIFF in Photoshop. I didn't know about the sharpen-at-final-stage tip, so thanks for that. Perhaps I should have another go at it, afterall I am a beginner with PP as well.

You say you had to step back with this shot, could you not have zoomed back a bit instead? I also wonder if you were that close if you had the lens set to minimum focus distance? If it was set to 3m to infinity this may have been the cause of the slightly oof issue with you being so near.

....In the exact science of hindsight and far more DSLR experience I don't doubt I could have zoomed back instead and I most likely had the lens set to the longer minimum focal distance because I had seconds earlier being shooting this same Robin in a tree. It was as if he saw my camera and came rushing in to have a close-up! Although he was more likely to have been telling me "Enough with the photographs - Give me 5 dollars! (or some mealworms)".

This photo clearly isn't going to win any awards but as part of my DSLR learning curve I am pleased with it. I am very grateful for the feedback and I strive to find my holy grail.

I will of course be posting more bird photos for feedback. Thanks

 

[BRASH]

Ok then as you ask, the crop has already been pointed out to you, the bg is noisy which you are happy with. The subject itself is slightly oof as well as looking really grainy even at full size, again perhaps the grain effect is something you are happy with, but for a static shot of a Robin and considering that lens, image quality should be much better. Your shutter speed should be equivelant if not greater than the focal length that you are using, 200=1/200, 300=1/300 etc etc. Did you use a tripod or a solid resting point for this shot or the monopod? If you used the monopod then more often than not you will end up with an image of this quality at those settings. I am not sure how much PP work you are doing, but if you are not already aware then you need to make all your adjustments first and then some slight sharpening at the very end to allow for web display. You say you had to step back with this shot, could you not have zoomed back a bit instead? I also wonder if you were that close if you had the lens set to minimum focus distance? If it was set to 3m to infinity this may have been the cause of the slightly oof issue with you being so near.

Listen to him. All good advice. He knows about Robins and photographing them (sad deluded fool that he is).

 

[jakeblu]

This Robin image is my first ever go at using Photoshop to sharpen with the High Pass Filter - One step at a time!

I was wondering earlier if the problem with the noise was due to over sharpening especially more so now if you have used a new technique.

Steve

 

[RedRobin]

Listen to him. All good advice. He knows about Robins and photographing them (sad deluded fool that he is).

....I am listening to him and have given him a very full reply - #15.

 

[RedRobin]

I was wondering earlier if the problem with the noise was due to over sharpening especially more so now if you have used a new technique.

Steve

....Worth me starting again from the original to see if I can improve - Will post result later - Job #432!

 

[jakeblu]

Personally as a snap shot I feel its ok and would say well done for managing to capture anything. I think Rich's advice is good and plenty of pointers in how to shoot birds but I feel these type of images really are not suitable for critique and should in fact just be judged for what they are, hastily taken shots with no time to arrange composition, or camera settings with credit giving for having been able to capture anything recognisable at all But seeing as I missed the shooting settings under the image what do I know

Steve

 

[u8myufo]

....I have looked at the crop following Trev's post #5 and I have given the maximum space for the bird 'to look into' that I can while avoiding a very ugly and hence dominant post - It could possibly be Photoshop'd out but that would be a lot of work to do properly and not worthwhile for this photo.

The image you see is the full height of the original landscape shot and I really like the blues and greens in both the top and bottom of the background bokeh. I had considered cropping square but would have then lost those very attractive elements. Furthermore, cropping so closely to the bird loses all the atmosphere of its environmental setting - I have tried it.

For me, photography is capturing and creating an image and picture and not just a technically perfect record. Achieving both is my holy grail.



....Indeed I am, very happy with the background. As I have given reasons for earlier in this discussion. Personally I do not worship at the altar of no-noise-allowed and this is a very subjective subject in which there is no right or wrong, in my opinion.



....This shot was handheld and grabbed very quickly indeed and without the time to consider and change my shutter speed. I just had time to focus and snap.

Why would using a monopod end up with an image of this quality at those settings, please? (The shot was handheld and completely unsupported).



....I always try and do minimal PP work but this was shot in RAW, tweaked in Apple's Aperture and finally High Pass Filter sharpened (my last process) as a TIFF in Photoshop. I didn't know about the sharpen-at-final-stage tip, so thanks for that. Perhaps I should have another go at it, afterall I am a beginner with PP as well.



....In the exact science of hindsight and far more DSLR experience I don't doubt I could have zoomed back instead and I most likely had the lens set to the longer minimum focal distance because I had seconds earlier being shooting this same Robin in a tree. It was as if he saw my camera and came rushing in to have a close-up! Although he was more likely to have been telling me "Enough with the photographs - Give me 5 dollars! (or some mealworms)".

This photo clearly isn't going to win any awards but as part of my DSLR learning curve I am pleased with it. I am very grateful for the feedback and I strive to find my holy grail.

I will of course be posting more bird photos for feedback. Thanks

Thanks for getting back on this, I only mentioned the monopod as in your other thread you seemed keen to use it quite a bit. Going back to my first reply about giving some info with the shot Robin this proves my point. Do not take this the wrong way and this goes not only for me but for others trying to help. You have mentioned two or three things here in your reply which gives people some idea about how to go about helping, personaly I feel it is not down to those trying to help to keep spending time asking so many questions to extract that information from people, it does not have to be too in depth but even such things as " this shot was handheld " gives us something to go on and does not leave us playing a guessing game as to what advise needs to be given out.

 

[RedRobin]

Personally as a snap shot I feel its ok and would say well done for managing to capture anything.

I think Rich's advice is good and plenty of pointers in how to shoot birds but I feel these type of images really are not suitable for critique and should in fact just be judged for what they are, hastily taken shots with no time to arrange composition, or camera settings with credit giving for having been able to capture anything recognisable at all

....Thanks Steve - I was pleased to capture an image and didn't think it so bad as not to process and post it here.

I have highlit part of your comment in bold because I don't agree with you about such images not being suitable for critique (and feedback). I have afterall posted this thread in the appropriately titled part of TP's forum. But more importantly, how does someone (myself in this case) who is keen to improve their photography obtain critique and feedback if they can't post them here?

 

[RedRobin]

Thanks for getting back on this, I only mentioned the monopod as in your other thread you seemed keen to use it quite a bit. Going back to my first reply about giving some info with the shot Robin this proves my point. Do not take this the wrong way and this goes not only for me but for others trying to help. You have mentioned two or three things here in your reply which gives people some idea about how to go about helping, personaly I feel it is not down to those trying to help to keep spending time asking so many questions to extract that information from people, it does not have to be too in depth but even such things as " this shot was handheld " gives us something to go on and does not leave us playing a guessing game as to what advise needs to be given out.

....Yes, I am keen on using my fluid head monopod when shooting with my 400mm f5.6L - It's all part of my learning curve and I find it excellent for maintaining a position yet also have a useful amount of flexibility - I can anticipate, hold position, and be ready to shoot. I haven't used my 70-200mm f4L on a monopod.

I assumed that by not including monopod/tripod information along with the EXIF (posted in my OP), it would be understood that it was handheld as it's the only other method. In future I will do my best to give as much information as possible but folks here should understand that what you established toggers expect also has a learning curve.

If I have left out information which you feel needs to be asked for, I had not realised that. I didn't bother to state that this shot was set at 0 EV but would have done so if it was a +/- value.

This afternoon I'm going to try and rework this image and will post it later. Hopefully you won't be fed up to the teeth with this discussion by then.

Again, thanks for your input - It's appreciated.

 

[RedRobin]

This afternoon I'm going to try and rework this image and will post it later. Hopefully you won't be fed up to the teeth with this discussion by then.

Again, thanks for your input - It's appreciated.

....That afternoon turned into days! But I have taken onboard advice and here is a reworked version starting again from scratch from the original....

 

[Solo man]

I'd like to see the robin back on the longer pole, and to crop from the left to lose that strip...and to knock the saturation back a bit

 

[RedRobin]

I'd like to see the robin back on the longer pole, and to crop from the left to lose that strip...and to knock the saturation back a bit

....That white vertical strip is why I originally cropped the image in portrait aspect ratio. Are you saying you think you would prefer a portrait ratio, Lee?

Perhaps I better also consider either a square crop or one which is unconstrained. Trouble is that I'll have to re-do everything like Noiseware and Aperture settings etc as cropping is the first thing I did (Jeff's advice). Still, practice makes perfect.

 

[Steve Hatch]

Hi Robin, As said the image is very noisy and the whites on the landscape crops are hot! I also don't understand why you didn't just zoom out (you said you are new to dslr not to photography). Also I think once again with a little thought about the shots you are taking you would improve greatly, if this is a resident Robin in your garden did you really need to take a grab shot?, as other opportunities are obviously there, also no converter would be needed. Surely using a Low shutter speed, handheld is going to cause you problems regardless of whether is is a DSLR or not!!

 

[Solo man]

....That white vertical strip is why I originally cropped the image in portrait aspect ratio. Are you saying you think you would prefer a portrait ratio, Lee?

Perhaps I better also consider either a square crop or one which is unconstrained. Trouble is that I'll have to re-do everything like Noiseware and Aperture settings etc as cropping is the first thing I did (Jeff's advice). Still, practice makes perfect.

No, I think it might suit a square crop, or thereabouts.... I think it looked better being on the longer pole....

 

[Solo man]

Hi Robin, As said the image is very noisy and the whites on the landscape crops are hot! I also don't understand why you didn't just zoom out (you said you are new to dslr not to photography). Also I think once again with a little thought about the shots you are taking you would improve greatly, if this is a resident Robin in your garden did you really need to take a grab shot?, as other opportunities are obviously there, also no converter would be needed. Surely using a Low shutter speed, handheld is going to cause you problems regardless of whether is is a DSLR or not!!

Steve makes some valid points here....

 

[RedRobin]

Hi Robin, As said the image is very noisy and the whites on the landscape crops are hot!

....I'm assuming you mean the bird itself is very noisy because the background certainly isn't after I applied Noiseware.

I also don't understand why you didn't just zoom out (you said you are new to dslr not to photography). Also I think once again with a little thought about the shots you are taking you would improve greatly, if this is a resident Robin in your garden did you really need to take a grab shot?, as other opportunities are obviously there, also no converter would be needed.

....The exact science of hindsight. I took this shot on 26th December, just 3 weeks after buying the camera. I'm already beginning to be more selective about what shots I take but by grabbing every opportunity to shoot I gain experience in photographing birds and learn more about my particular camera. So I didn't need to shoot but why waste an opportunity to practice grab shots?

The converter (Canon 1.4x Extender) was already on the lens to help reach for other bird subjects. As said, the sudden closeness was unexpected.

Yes, the Robin is resident and I take all the photos opportunities I can. The beauty of digital being that you can shoot and bin whenever you want without concern for cost etc.

Surely using a Low shutter speed, handheld is going to cause you problems regardless of whether is is a DSLR or not!!

....I already explained earlier in this thread how that came to be - I made a mistake. Failure is the path to success!

I'm off to reconsider the cropping and kick back the saturation.................. (and have a cuppa)

 

[LCPete]

Hi Robin I really like robins and never tire of seeing shots of them but hope you don't mind me saying that I don't really like this one
Can you set up a perch in the garden and arrange it so that you don't get such a dark background ?
A twig or branch clamped to a pole would be much nicer than the metal post
If you get some meal worms he will get really tame and you will be able get really close so you don't have to crop
I used to do this in my garden a few years ago and even got shots of the birds with my 100mm macro lens by setting up the camera on a tripod aimed at a perch and used a remote trigger to fire the camera

 

[Steve Hatch]

....I'm assuming you mean the bird itself is very noisy because the background certainly isn't after I applied Noiseware.

Noise ….original post
Whites…. All landscapes shots but not portrait

....The exact science of hindsight. I took this shot on 26th December, just 3 weeks after buying the camera. I'm already beginning to be more selective about what shots I take but by grabbing every opportunity to shoot I gain experience in photographing birds and learn more about my particular camera. So I didn't need to shoot but why waste an opportunity to practice grab shots?

Surely Zooming in and out is no different to focusing ….regardless of how long you have had the camera? especially to someone not new to photography
Yes, the Robin is resident and I take all the photos opportunities I can. The beauty of digital being that you can shoot and bin whenever you want without concern for cost etc.

Very true….other than a new shutter once yours has reached its limit……..but my point is you are asking for critique and if you take a shot of everything just because you can you will never improve unless you think about and pick your shots more wisely. A resident Robin is a perfect subject to practice perfecting your technique on and for me grab shots are exactly that and not something you can practice so really a waste of time.

 

[RedRobin]

Hi Robin I really like robins and never tire of seeing shots of them but hope you don't mind me saying that I don't really like this one

Can you set up a perch in the garden and arrange it so that you don't get such a dark background ?

A twig or branch clamped to a pole would be much nicer than the metal post
If you get some meal worms he will get really tame and you will be able get really close so you don't have to crop
I used to do this in my garden a few years ago and even got shots of the birds with my 100mm macro lens by setting up the camera on a tripod aimed at a perch and used a remote trigger to fire the camera

....Absolutely no problem whatsoever with you not liking this particular Robin shot

That was a grab shot in the drive where the posts are to keep off cars. The thick hedge with Cherry trees etc in the background is not my responsibility to re-arrange . I have several other places in my garden which are more suitable (see shots below) but I'm someone who much prefers to go on walkabout and shoot what I happen to see rather than build sets and sit and wait.

^ Posted for my garden's environment reference only.

^ Posted for my garden's environment reference only.

 

[Trev4]

You know... this shot is what it is. I expressed my thoughts on the original one as did many others. Its not a competition winner by any means, and it has never been claimed to be. The last edit, to my mind is quite an improvement on the original. I do think it needs a slight desaturation, and there does appear to be some camera shake, only slight bit its there. The Robin has landed on the rusty post, and the BG is as it is, that cant be changed. As a learning exercise, Robin has listened and acted on the advice offered and to my mind produced an improved and acceptable version. Apart from the saturation I mentioned, I don't think this image can be taken much further and I would leave the last edit as it is (apart from saturation again). Overall I do feel its been a useful thread with many valid points made that can be used for future projects.

 

[RedRobin]

Surely Zooming in and out is no different to focusing ….regardless of how long you have had the camera? especially to someone not new to photography

....It all happened so very fast and I instantly went for the shot to 'get one in the bag' before a hoped-for chance to reset everything to achieve a better result. He didn't settle for long enough for me to reset anything and, added to this, I purposely moved my arms etc slowly so not to alarm him and to consequently increase my chances of setting myself up for a better shot. But it wasn't to be and there will be future opportunities.

Very true….other than a new shutter once yours has reached its limit

....Using that logic I wouldn't take out my car and enjoy driving her (109k miles so far) in case I would need a new gearbox sooner. If you've got things, use and enjoy using them.

but my point is you are asking for critique and if you take a shot of everything just because you can you will never improve unless you think about and pick your shots more wisely. A resident Robin is a perfect subject to practice perfecting your technique on and for me grab shots are exactly that and not something you can practice so really a waste of time.

....I have already said that I have become more selective, Steve!

Am I to understand that you would never attempt to take advantage of an unexpected photo opportunity just because it would be a grab shot and might fail?

I practice using my camera gear with the aim of improving my own photography and I post SOME of them here because I can learn from the critique/feedback (including some of yours). Your point about saturation for example.

 

[RedRobin]

You know... this shot is what it is. I expressed my thoughts on the original one as did many others. Its not a competition winner by any means, and it has never been claimed to be.

The last edit, to my mind is quite an improvement on the original. I do think it needs a slight desaturation, and there does appear to be some camera shake, only slight bit its there. The Robin has landed on the rusty post, and the BG is as it is, that cant be changed.

As a learning exercise, Robin has listened and acted on the advice offered and to my mind produced an improved and acceptable version. Apart from the saturation I mentioned, I don't think this image can be taken much further and I would leave the last edit as it is (apart from saturation again).

Overall I do feel its been a useful thread with many valid points made that can be used for future projects.

....EXACTLY!! Thank you, Trev!

I was going through my shots and binning some and when I came across this one I thought it would be a good thing to have another go at it today with the advantage of all the feedback I had read in this, and indeed in other threads as well. Background noise for example.

Although there is still some room for further improvement (saturation, thankyou Steve) this picture is of course never going to win any awards but surely my posting it both 'rewards' those who have bothered to comment constructively and also is of benefit to this thread and hence this forum.

 

[Steve Hatch]

Very true….other than a new shutter once yours has reached its limit

....Using that logic I wouldn't take out my car and enjoy driving her (109k miles so far) in case I would need a new gearbox sooner. If you've got things, use and enjoy using them.

Fair enough if thats what you want to do

Your last two shots imho are worse than your first post….the last one is almost glowing! the white patch on the breast is totally devoid of any detail whatsoever. The first one for me has too many bright areas in the bg which take your eye of the subject and the log is also quite dominant

 

[RedRobin]

Your last two shots imho are worse than your first post….the last one is almost glowing! the white patch on the breast is totally devoid of any detail whatsoever. The first one for me has too many bright areas in the bg which take your eye of the subject and the log is also quite dominant

....Thanks for your comments but these shots were only posted in response to LCPete's post about my garden environment.

 

[Steve Hatch]

Ok i will make no further comments to your posts as whatever constructive advice is given you always have an excuse and these posts show you have taken little or no notice whatsoever…. hope you get what you strive for and just carry on enjoying what you are already

 

[RedRobin]

Slightly desaturated version:


Robin_0846v4ns by RedRobin_05, on Flickr

I think that's as far as I feel it's worth taking this particular image. A square cropping places the bird very centrally and then there's that guideline about there being enough space for a bird to look into.