So, what's the point?

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Folks, forgive me for not multi quoting and replying individually as I usually try to do. I'm on the phone at the moment and put and about at work.

There are some excellent points raised here. It's always reassuring to hear people have felt the same way and what they have done/tried to change direction, mindset and approach. I very much appreciate the input. I will definitely be trying some of the ones I haven't already tried and see where it leads.

mid_gen said:
If you don't gain anything from photography (as seems to be the case)...then just give up.

Seems like you are more interested in recognition rather than photography. Go post your shots to loads of Flickr groups, you'll soon have all the gold stars you could ever wish for.
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If only it were that easy to 'just give up'. From the second part of your post, you have misunderstood where I am coming from. That's not all I want at all. I don't want false praise at all just for the sale of it.
 
If you don't see any point in doing it, why do it?

That you say it is difficult to give up gives an indication that you do see the point. Maybe you need to try giving up and see what draws you back.
 
mid_gen said:
If you don't see any point in doing it, why do it?

That you say it is difficult to give up gives an indication that you do see the point. Maybe you need to try giving up and see what draws you back.
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I have tried giving up before. Sold up, bought back. Can't get away from the fact that it is what I want to do. I think the only answer is to shoot more, learn more, shoot some more.

I think it's more a feeling of personal satisfaction and achievement that I am seeking rather than reward and recognition, although peer recognition is obviously excellent and very encouraging.
 
mid_gen said:
If you don't gain anything from photography (as seems to be the case)...then just give up.

Seems like you are more interested in recognition rather than photography. Go post your shots to loads of Flickr groups, you'll soon have all the gold stars you could ever wish for.
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Have to say, from what I've read, im inclined to agree with the above. Pretty much everything you have posted in this thread so far has all been doom and gloom, im rubbish, oh woe is me. Everyone has creative blocks occasionally, and I too am my own biggest critic, but if anything, that just spurs me on to improve. If photography really is causing you so much mental anguish and doubt in your abilities, give up!
 
I appreciate all the input in this thread. I was tempted to let it disappear down the forum but wanted to thank people for their opinions
 
If your problem really isn't with the actual photographing, and is with the idea that your shots are languishing pointlessly on a hard-drive, then consider looking up Wikipedia entries for your locality, finding articles that have no photos, and going out and taking the best photographs you possibly can to illustrate them. If you're resigned to not making money from your photos, and are comparing them to the top photographers, then licence them for free to a good cause and compare them with the usual snapshots that you find in Wikipedia articles - your photographs (which are excellent, as others have said) would give so much more value to the article than a quick snap)

They're currently running a competition to photograph Listed buildings in the UK. I'm thinking of going round taking photos of some of the ones in my area, not to win, but because it's a nice ready-made project for me.

Of course, it doesn't have to be Wikipedia, but it is a nice way of giving purpose to ones shots.

(Obviously, it'd mean licensing your images under a Creative Commons license, so if someone is not willing to do that, it's a non-starter)
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I kinda know what I want to do. I want to do people photography really. Real people. That would be the ultimate goal for me.
 
HWest said:
Do it if you like it, stop doing it if you don't. Like any creative endeavour you are fulfilling your own creative drive and impulses. If you like the results, that's all that matters; the audience will take care of itself.
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Thanks. :)

I DO like doing it. I DO NOT like the results. :bonk::LOL:
 
Hi Mate,
I have not looked at your shots yet to say if I agree they are "Mediocre! but if you feel they are what makes you feel that way?
Photography is all style and in the eye of the beholder. What some will like others will hate what some find tranquil and serene others will find boring and flat.
When shots i take don't match up with what I wanted /desired I work out why.
A lot of the time it will come down to light either wrong time of day or just flat light etc.
if its not the above is it wrong lens choice bad framing etc.
Some times i try and blame gear and look longingly on the for sale page at all the gear I would love to own. But in all honesty I have seen some great shots taken on point and shoot and iphones etc so thats always just an excuse. Its your gear so you should know its limitations and know what you can produce with it.
And failing all the above i then hunt you tube for processing tips and read books and magazines.
When asked what is my best shot I always answer the next one and always try to get better every time I go out. Of course there are plateaus where we sit forlornly looking for a route to higher and better but as long as we keep looking we will find that route and enjoy the new view from the next plateaus.
if you enjoy what you do keep doing it and don't take others views on what you do if you like it then its job done.
Really hope this helps
Allan
 
I reckon head over to Behance. I signed up last night and if you can't be inspired there then you might need to take a break!

Also what Allan said!
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Thanks. :)

I DO like doing it. I DO NOT like the results. :bonk::LOL:
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What exactly do you want to achieve from this thread because you are replying and purposefully keeping this thread going yet not taking any advice. Why??
 
srichards said:
So what is wrong with the results? What are you planning to do differently to produce results you do like?
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I'm always trying to shoot differently and reading and trying new approaches to hopefully produce different/better results.

Eaglesnestphoto said:
Hi Mate,
I have not looked at your shots yet to say if I agree they are "Mediocre! but if you feel they are what makes you feel that way?
Photography is all style and in the eye of the beholder. What some will like others will hate what some find tranquil and serene others will find boring and flat.
When shots i take don't match up with what I wanted /desired I work out why.
A lot of the time it will come down to light either wrong time of day or just flat light etc.
if its not the above is it wrong lens choice bad framing etc.
Some times i try and blame gear and look longingly on the for sale page at all the gear I would love to own. But in all honesty I have seen some great shots taken on point and shoot and iphones etc so thats always just an excuse. Its your gear so you should know its limitations and know what you can produce with it.
And failing all the above i then hunt you tube for processing tips and read books and magazines.
When asked what is my best shot I always answer the next one and always try to get better every time I go out. Of course there are plateaus where we sit forlornly looking for a route to higher and better but as long as we keep looking we will find that route and enjoy the new view from the next plateaus.
if you enjoy what you do keep doing it and don't take others views on what you do if you like it then its job done.
Really hope this helps
Allan
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Thank you for your detailed response. Some good points there. I feel my shots are mediocre because they don't give me the same feeling as I get from looking at others shots. Something that has been mentioned in another current thread about producing more emotive photographs.

Ferj said:
I reckon head over to Behance. I signed up last night and if you can't be inspired there then you might need to take a break!

Also what Allan said!
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Never heard of behance. Will have to check it out later. Thank you.

Danny8oy said:
What exactly do you want to achieve from this thread because you are replying and purposefully keeping this thread going yet not taking any advice. Why??
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What's to suggest I'm not taking any advice? You don't know what I'm up to when I'm not replying here?! Also, I haven't purposefully kept the thread going. I take the time to reply to the people who have posted advice in it wether I agree with it or not because it's the polite thing to do. I think there have been some good responses and tips and they aren't just for me. They are for others who possibly feel the same way at times which, evidently, is quite a few other people.
 
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gazmorton2000 said:
What's to suggest I'm not taking any advice? You don't know what I'm up to when I'm not replying here?! Also, I haven't purposefully kept the thread going. I take the time to reply to the people who have posted advice in it wether I agree with it or not because it's the polite thing to do. I think there have been some good responses and tips and they aren't just for me. They are for others who possibly feel the same way at times which, evidently, is quite a few other people.
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I just find it odd you have so many suggestions yet there is absolutely no feedback on anything anybody has suggested except you multi-quoting and telling the person if you think its a good idea. If you really want to improve perhaps you would come back to the thread after trying said suggestions with possibly some shots and you thoughts of the suggestion then? :thinking:
 
Danny8oy said:
I just find it odd you have so many suggestions yet there is absolutely no feedback on anything anybody has suggested except you multi-quoting and telling the person if you think its a good idea. If you really want to improve perhaps you would come back to the thread after trying said suggestions with possibly some shots and you thoughts of the suggestion then? :thinking:
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Ok that's a fair point and see what you mean. However, I don't keep shots that I don't like unless I think I'm onto something but need help/direction/suggestions. If I know something's not to my liking, I won't keep it. I'm shooting stuff pretty much every day and deleting it either in camera or after review on the computer.

Although as quite a contradiction to what I've just said, there's quite a bit on my Flickr that I no longer like that I could cull. I got rid of everything on 500px a couple of days ago.
 
To be completely honest I think your over thinking and being over critical. If we all did what you are doing none of us would have any photos.... because none of us are the best or have the best photos! There are people looking at your photos saying I wish I could shoot like that.... (y)
 
Sometimes i hate the results,if that happen i just stop looking at them and go back another day.

Also if i say get 1 great shot out 50/100,sometimes that a plus :)
 
Photography is...

A great way ponce about with cool stuff and discover an ever increasing array of essential kit that you need.

Its a great way to get near naked women without being seen to be a perve.

Its a great way to show off your latest new stuff and feel you are the buisness

Its great for making you the master of pointless technology like photoshop

Its a good excuse to be somewhere

Err...:thinking:

There must be more...
 
I have to say, I went through a phase a bit like this. I deleted all of my images apart from my family photos. I wish I hadn't.

Shoot RAW. Keep everything that is average or above. You never know when yo umight go back to it be able to re use it or re process it. I've had my mad creative moment - it won't happen again!

Basically you either like photography and taking pictures or you don't. If you do not enjoy it try something else. Don't feel forced (by who I dont know) to take photos, just put your camera down.

If not keep shooting, shoot anything and everything, keep everything for 6 months and start sharing and enjoying your pictures. Simples!
 
I'm glad I never get to feel like this about my cartoon drawing, even though I started doing it when I was 11 years old in 1978! I do it for pleasure and if I make a bit of pocket money out of it then that is a bit of a bonus.
However, I do think that I have hit a peak with my interest in photography but it may be more to do with me being a home carer for an elderly mother as well as having given up car ownership three years ago. As a result, I'm not getting out and about with the camera as much as I used to ever since I got into digital photography in 2003. So, in a way, I know how you are feeling in that respect.
But I'm stilll holding onto my D7000 and lenses in the hope that my shutter button will start twitching again. I think it might be worth doing a 365 photos type project to get the photography juices going again.
 
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I admit that I'm not familiar with your work but I think I understand the point you're trying to make. For me, it's memories and something to talk about in the future. Sharing, ah I'll show most pics off but I'm not usually fussed if they're liked by others...usually!
 
Steve T said:
Photography is...

A great way ponce about with cool stuff and discover an ever increasing array of essential kit that you need.

Its a great way to get near naked women without being seen to be a perve.

Its a great way to show off your latest new stuff and feel you are the buisness

Its great for making you the master of pointless technology like photoshop

Its a good excuse to be somewhere

Err...:thinking:

There must be more...
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Haha. Some good points there. I've seen all of those reasons and more.

Ferj said:
I have to say, I went through a phase a bit like this. I deleted all of my images apart from my family photos. I wish I hadn't.

Shoot RAW. Keep everything that is average or above. You never know when yo umight go back to it be able to re use it or re process it. I've had my mad creative moment - it won't happen again!

Basically you either like photography and taking pictures or you don't. If you do not enjoy it try something else. Don't feel forced (by who I dont know) to take photos, just put your camera down.

If not keep shooting, shoot anything and everything, keep everything for 6 months and start sharing and enjoying your pictures. Simples!
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Thanks for your point of view. :)

Ian D J said:
I'm glad I never get to feel like this about my cartoon drawing, even though I started doing it when I was 11 years old in 1978! I do it for pleasure and if I make a bit of pocket money out of it then that is a bit of a bonus.
However, I do think that I have hit a peak with my interest in photography but it may be more to do with me being a home carer for an elderly mother as well as having given up car ownership three years ago. As a result, I'm not getting out and about with the camera as much as I used to ever since I got into digital photography in 2003. So, in a way, I know how you are feeling in that respect.
But I'm stilll holding onto my D7000 and lenses in the hope that my shutter button will start twitching again. I think it might be worth doing a 365 photos type project to get the photography juices going again.
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Ian, your cartoons are awesome. I always enjoy seeing them when you post them here. Hope you start to shoot more soon.

MagicMynx said:
I admit that I'm not familiar with your work but I think I understand the point you're trying to make. For me, it's memories and something to talk about in the future. Sharing, ah I'll show most pics off but I'm not usually fussed if they're liked by others...usually!
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Thanks for the input. I think I need to start shooting more random stuff just for the memories. I have contacts on Flickr who ONLY upload their very best works of art and I have some who are very good at photographing seemingly anything and everything and documenting their life with excellent photos.
 
Set yourself a goal Gareth.
At the end of the year I make a 20 image photo book of the best images that I feel are the best I have taken in the last 12 months.
Not only does this give you a feeling of accomplishing something, it also feels great to receive feedback from people you show the book to. Family, friends, whoever!!
I now have 5 books.
Give it a go Gareth. I guarantee your perception of photography will change.
 
Gareth, just treat photography as a hobby, try to enjoy it without feeling that you have to seek justification/praise/critique from others. If it was a job, then that would be understandable pressure, but there should not be any stress attached to the things which keep us happy.
 
Think photography is frustrating then try golf! Similar to photography - never be a pro, started too late, can't afford all the gear and many times come home and wonder why I bother.

However, now and again I will hit that great shot, the ball does exactly what I visualised and the end result is near on perfect. A bit like that one day when you get the photograph that you visualised. That's what keeps you coming back - the promise of that happening again.

Ansel Adams reckoned that he only shot a handful of great photographs a year. His quote was: "Twelve significant photographs in any one year is a good crop."
Some good and inspirational quotes here ww.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/ansel_adams.html
 
Ive drifted in and out of photography for around 15 years, sold my gear to pay the bills and a few months later at most Im buying some more. I think I'll always end up coming back to it. Its like home and I know it, one of the few things I know I can do. When Im behind the camera the world stops, the noise, people etc. means nothing and its just me and the subject. Its my calm time, when things don't seem quite so bad.
Photography is home, you may go away for a while but always come back because at the end of the day you just want to go home.
 
LeeTurner said:
Think photography is frustrating then try golf! Similar to photography - never be a pro, started too late, can't afford all the gear and many times come home and wonder why I bother.

However, now and again I will hit that great shot, the ball does exactly what I visualised and the end result is near on perfect. A bit like that one day when you get the photograph that you visualised. That's what keeps you coming back - the promise of that happening again.

Ansel Adams reckoned that he only shot a handful of great photographs a year. His quote was: "Twelve significant photographs in any one year is a good crop."
Some good and inspirational quotes here ww.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/ansel_adams.html
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Well said Lee, the comparison with golf is very true, and the Adams quote is a gem.
 
mant01 said:
Ive drifted in and out of photography for around 15 years, sold my gear to pay the bills and a few months later at most Im buying some more. I think I'll always end up coming back to it. Its like home and I know it, one of the few things I know I can do. When Im behind the camera the world stops, the noise, people etc. means nothing and its just me and the subject. Its my calm time, when things don't seem quite so bad.
Photography is home, you may go away for a while but always come back because at the end of the day you just want to go home.
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I find this with photography, it is very therapeutic - just you, the camera and nature. Sometimes we need to jump off the merrygoround which is life, and I find photography the ideal hobby to relax with.
 
Thanks for the further suggestions. Funny someone should mention golf as I would really like to play again!
 
I have a feeling this is going to be a long post. So please bear with me.

I like many other people, in various aspects of my life, over time have asked: Why? Why am I not good enough, whats the point?

The answer though is simple. I haven't tried hard enough to do the things I love to do, to be great at them, to break out of whatever self imposed shackles I have created and look at things anew.

In terms of photography, I recently have gone through thousands of photographs I have on my hard drive and thought "What a load of old dross." And deleted everything and anything that has no sentimental meaning to me. And I started asking the same questions you have. Why am I not happy with my photographs? Is photography a wasted endeavour, do I have it in me to take a shot I will be pleased with and for vanity get the respect of my peers. And after some soul searching I have come to the following conclusion.

I can not be good at something if I don't put in the time and effort required to improve myself. Athletes train every day to become gold medalists. Artists have a lifestyle where they are continually critiquing there own work and creating new pieces. Photographers find there own way, there own style (like artists). Simply taking photographs, downloading them on to your hard drive playing around with them in photoshop and forgetting about them will never make you a good photographer. This is not how you get better.

So what are the plans for my photography and how am I going to improve?

  • Forget about other people, forget about people on the internet with thousands of followers loving every image they produce. Focus on your own images.
  • Leave all your gear at home and buy a Holga or other cheap camera, take it everywhere. Forget about the technology, that isn't getting in your way - you are.
  • Start thinking in terms of every picture you take becoming a print. Think about how you want that print to look before taking the picture. If it isn't going to work because of bad lighting etc - don't take the picture and make a mental note to come back some other time.
  • Make a plan. Write down your list of goals for your photography. Be that, enter a competition and finish in the top 50% or take a photograph and hang it on your wall. Write these down and then figure out how you are going to get there. 2 hours of focused improvement/learning is worth far more than hours and hours spent on the computer browsing flickr and 500px.
  • Review your own photographs before you ask others to review them, be your own worst critique. Ask those questions: Why did I take the shot? What was I trying to achieve? Did it achieve those things, if not why not. How could I have improved it? Could the light be better, the composition?
  • Gauge your photographs against your own. That way you will be able to see improvement and feel positive about the progress your making. I have personally purchased a large photo album and every time I take a photo that I think is better than I have previously taken I print it 12x8 and place it in it. Now I can see very easily how I am getting better.
  • Print your photographs, hang them on the wall and be proud of your achievements.
  • Think of photography as an art. It's too easy to get caught up with the wrong things. Less noise/more megapixels/better glass, non of this matters yet. You will know when it does. Look at paintings constructively to see how light and placement of subjects help to promote an idea or feeling.
There is also thousands of things to think about all of the time and this post does not cover everything. But what I wanted to try and make myself and you consider is that being great at things takes time and effort. If you are not prepared to put that time and effort in, you will always be mediocre.
 
I watched the new this week , a new Van Gogh, I don't think this man was ever happy with his work, and personally I think it looks like he painted it with a catapult form across the street, the art world are wetting themselves about how good it is, and it's worth squillions, so in my opinion keep your hard disk full of photos you think are rubbish, keep adding to them whenever you can who knows what may happen. oh and by the way sharp knives and ears are best kept apart.
 
Hi Gareth
I thought I might throw in my two penneth, which might help reinforce your thinking, or suggest a different approach to your photography.

After firsthand experience of helping frustrated photographers, I have found the best way to help them is to show how a truly good effective photograph is one that has an aim and purpose. This can be regarded as the ‘Why’ of the photograph.

In almost all types of photography there are three elements that need to be considered.
These are the ‘What’, ‘How’ and ‘Why’ factors that should always come into play throughout the picture making process.

However, most photographers who do not fulfil their potential usually only think about ‘What’ they are going to photograph and ‘How’ they aim to do it, but the most important ‘Why’ factor is rarely considered.

I hope this has perhaps jogged your thinking and maybe helped in some way.
Sam-D
 
Sensible words from Barry a couple of posts up. I am currently carrying out a similar cull of my hard drive.

I do think that it is in the nature of progress to be staggered rather than smooth. I think we hit periods when we feel that our work is improving, that there is progress and we are satisfied with it, then this stops, you find yourself unhappy, frustrated and depressed. This tends to mark a point of increment. I suspect that it is here, after a period of stasis, that we refocus and push ourselves through to the next step.
 
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