Sooooo much cheaper- why?

DigitalRevDeals said:
DigitalRev offers the convenience of shouldering these fees on your behalf by sending it via DDP (Duty Delivery Paid). This means that the sender is the one that pays any tax excise, not recipient. The express courier will bill us directly and never request the recipient for payment. This means that the amount you pay on check out is the final and only amount you need to pay.
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That's interesting. If I were to buy from DigitalRev, would I receive a VAT invoice so that I could reclaim the VAT from HMRC?
 
StewartR said:
That's interesting. If I were to buy from DigitalRev, would I receive a VAT invoice so that I could reclaim the VAT from HMRC?
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Another and possible more worrying point is after buying the lens are you free to take it out of the country and not fear being asked to pay any VAT when you come back in?
 
Fordsabroad said:
Another and possible more worrying point is after buying the lens are you free to take it out of the country and not fear being asked to pay any VAT when you come back in?
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Why would you need to pay VAT on something you own?

"Excuse me, sir, did you buy that t-shirt on the grey market?"
 
Craigus said:
Why would you need to pay VAT on something you own?

"Excuse me, sir, did you buy that t-shirt on the grey market?"
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You're slightly missing the point.

Yes!
Customs can seize your goods and it's up to you to prove that they're legal and you've paid VAT. all of us returning here could be subject to this.
 
troutfisher said:
Well I will never be in the position to even contemplate spending that on a lens, but if I did I would want to be secure in the knowledge that if anything went wrong I could either pick up the phone to Elstree or drive there and get it sorted
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If anything did go wrong with the lens, and even if the grey dealer didn't honour their warranty for any reason, I image that the £2,500 which the OP would save by buying grey would pay for an awful lot of repairs!
 
Phil V said:
You're slightly missing the point.

Yes!
Customs can seize your goods and it's up to you to prove that they're legal and you've paid VAT. all of us returning here could be subject to this.
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It happened to me, coming in from the US which was a popular grey import route back then. Equipment confiscated, threatened with a fine, criminal record etc, before I could prove to custom's satisfaction that the large amount of new and expensive gear I had on loan from Canon was legit. Not easy before dawn on a Sunday morning, but they got my boss out of bed, managed to confirm a few things, and after a couple of hours eventually took my word. I think they thought I was on a bit of a scam, importing and re-selling etc.

The fact that this very unpleasant kind of affair doesn't happen often doesn't alter the fact that it is actually a serious offence - tax evasion, fraud, smuggling etc - with scary potential penalties. The least you can expect is payment of outstanding VAT and duty.
 
Phil V said:
You're slightly missing the point.

Yes!
Customs can seize your goods and it's up to you to prove that they're legal and you've paid VAT. all of us returning here could be subject to this.
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Fair enough, but have you honestly ever heard of this happening? I suspect not. How many laptops are taken through airports around the country each day, and how many of those people could produce a receipt for it to prove this. I bet most couldn't.

It's fine if people feel this type of thing is wrong, but let's not be silly about it.
 
Contax said:
If anything did go wrong with the lens, and even if the grey dealer didn't honour their warranty for any reason, I image that the £2,500 which the OP would save by buying grey would pay for an awful lot of repairs!
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I'm sure I've read reports official service centres sometimes refuse to look at anything grey market, even on a paid basis. Maybe there's some unofficial repairers?
 
an1uk said:
I'm sure I've read reports official service centres sometimes refuse to look at anything grey market, even on a paid basis. Maybe there's some unofficial repairers?
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I'm sure I've read reports that the moon landings didn't happen. The credibility of the source is important here.
 
DigitalRevDeals said:
DigitalRev offers the convenience of shouldering these fees on your behalf by sending it via DDP (Duty Delivery Paid). This means that the sender is the one that pays any tax excise, not recipient. The express courier will bill us directly and never request the recipient for payment. This means that the amount you pay on check out is the final and only amount you need to pay.

There are, in some rare occasions, that the courier may overlook this portion and ask you to pay for tax excise. When this happens, simply pay for it first and send us a copy of the paid tax excise receipt and we’ll help refund the paid amount back to your account.

In the event that you require any additional assistance, please do not hesitate to let me know through DM so that I can personally assist you.
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Excellent. Well done you.

Can you therefore confirm that VAT and (where appropriate) import tax is paid on each and every one of your sales to the UK and that you are able to provide a VAT receipt for each of your customers?

Or are you (as most of us suspect) taking the tax gamble and only paying on those items that are stopped UK portside?

I'd also be interested to hear you state that you only declare the full (paid) invoice price on the delivery docket.

By the way, the legal term [according to Incoterms 2010] is 'Deliver(ed) Duty Paid' not Duty Delivery Paid. We wouldn't want you confusing your customers with differing terminology, would we?
 
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an1uk said:
Petapixel good enough? https://petapixel.com/2016/05/20/nikon-now-allows-grey-market-camera-repairs-us/

Also https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/31847198 fair enough one individual one location, but why would they go to the effort of lying about it.
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Grey (strictly "gray" there) imports in US have a different connotation there. B&H is a bricks an mortar store in New York importing some cameras bypassing the official Nikon USA importer so presumably all the relevant taxes are paid just as with other cameras they sell. So it's really some kind of trade dispute rather than potential illegality.
 
sphexx said:
Grey (strictly "gray" there) imports in US have a different connotation there....
So it's really some kind of trade dispute rather than potential illegality.
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Nope, grey imports are exactly the same in the US and the UK. They're more properly called 'parallel imports'; ie genuine goods, legally imported but not using the official dealer network.

What are improperly referred to as 'grey imports' on this site are usually illegal imports.
 
DemiLion said:
What are improperly referred to as 'grey imports' on this site are usually illegal imports.
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No they aren't "illegal" imports. Illegal imports would be good such as drugs, guns, etc.

What is illegal is the tax evasion which appears to go on as part of the import process.
 
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StewartR said:
That's interesting. If I were to buy from DigitalRev, would I receive a VAT invoice so that I could reclaim the VAT from HMRC?
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Well Digital Rev, can we perhaps have an answer to the points raised above....we'd be most interested and would save a lot of discussion on this forum?
 
DemiLion said:
Nope, grey imports are exactly the same in the US and the UK. They're more properly called 'parallel imports'; ie genuine goods, legally imported but not using the official dealer network.

What are improperly referred to as 'grey imports' on this site are usually illegal imports.
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Well, there you go, it's the latter sort of grey imports that are being discussed in this thread. I'm not sure there is legal definition of the term "grey imports" for either sort.
 
Eloise said:
No they aren't "illegal" imports. Illegal imports would be good such as drugs, guns, etc.

What is illegal is the tax evasion which appears to go on as part of the import process.
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Nope. Those are banned imports (which incidentally are legal with a licence).
 
sphexx said:
Well, there you go, it's the latter sort of grey imports that are being discussed in this thread. I'm not sure there is legal definition of the term "grey imports" for either sort.
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It’s not a legal definition... but grey imports generally mean parallel imports or unofficial imports. That is imports which aren’t from the official UK importer.

The point at which things become illegal is if the goods are passed off as something they aren’t. Or if the correct duty and tax are not paid.
 
Orangecroc said:
Grey imports are imports of legal products where the importing practices involved are illegal.
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What Ben said above. For the other comments, you can import a Japanese or American car legally (as long as it meets local regulations for e.g. emissions or lights). That car may not be officially imported in the UK so it is neither a grey nor an illegal import.
 
Eloise said:
Only if you are avoiding taxes...
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You will be hard pushed to find grey imports that are not avoiding taxes. The local distributor can refuse warranty repairs as they have not had their pay after all but the distributor of the country where they were purchased cannot.
 
TLR-330 said:
What Ben said above. For the other comments, you can import a Japanese or American car legally (as long as it meets local regulations for e.g. emissions or lights). That car may not be officially imported in the UK so it is neither a grey nor an illegal import.
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That’s not true. A VW bought from a dealer in France is a grey import (no taxes involved) or a dealer selling you a Mazda Eunos is a grey importer but will have paid taxes!
 
Orangecroc said:
Not true, avoiding taxes is only one possible illegal import practice.
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Other illegal import practices tend to make it a counterfeit import not a grey import. Such as the case where this thread started which involved changing serial numbers.

The point is grey importing is not in itself illegal. However some of the practices around grey importing ARE.
 
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DemiLion said:
Actually that's the classic definition of a grey (parallel) import.
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I am thinking of cars that have not been imported as many Japanese and US cars are. I would class those as a personal import, there is nothing dodgy about them to make them "grey" as if there is something obscure about them.
 
TLR-330 said:
I am thinking of cars that have not been imported as many Japanese and US cars are. I would class those as a personal import, there is nothing dodgy about them to make them "grey" as if there is something obscure about them.
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They are still grey imports. Especially if the importation is arranged by a third party.
 
TLR-330 said:
I am thinking of cars that have not been imported as many Japanese and US cars are. I would class those as a personal import, there is nothing dodgy about them to make them "grey" as if there is something obscure about them.
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If they have not been imported then they are not grey imports or white imports for that matter.
 
an1uk said:
I'm sure I've read reports official service centres sometimes refuse to look at anything grey market, even on a paid basis. Maybe there's some unofficial repairers?
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Not sure what an "unofficial repairer" is. If the lens breaks, you pay somebody to repair it; you start with a broken lens and end up with a working lens. How can that be "official" or "unofficial"?

And at the end of the day, a lens is just a metal tube with a few bits of glass in it. I mean, how hard can it be? :)
 
Contax said:
Not sure what an "unofficial repairer" is. If the lens breaks, you pay somebody to repair it; you start with a broken lens and end up with a working lens. How can that be "official" or "unofficial"?

And at the end of the day, a lens is just a metal tube with a few bits of glass in it. I mean, how hard can it be? :)
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Official, your warranty remains intact, unofficial you void your warranty.
 
Fordsabroad said:
Another and possible more worrying point is after buying the lens are you free to take it out of the country and not fear being asked to pay any VAT when you come back in?
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It would be the same as any lens, how would anyone know which supply chain you received it from when you are returning through customs with your camera bag?
 
Eloise said:
Banned is another word for illegal. But whatever; grey imports are not illegal.
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You can 'ban' anything, it doesn't necessarily make it illegal.
 
Eloise said:
They are still grey imports. Especially if the importation is arranged by a third party.
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No, the cars are (as per the example) just personal imports, as much of the 'grey' photography equipment actually is. You just need to make sure the various duties are paid. Its just harder to avoid when importing a car due to the paper trail.
 
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odd jim said:
It would be the same as any lens, how would anyone know which supply chain you received it from when you are returning through customs with your camera bag?
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Theoretically you can be asked to prove you own the camera / lens and that all duty/taxes has been paid on them. If you can't prove it, your property can be confiscated and you made to pay tax. This includes if you are returning from holiday. Its unlikely to happen, but can do.

There are formal processes / declarations that can be made.
 
Eloise said:
Theoretically you can be asked to prove you own the camera / lens and that all duty/taxes has been paid on them. If you can't prove it, your property can be confiscated and you made to pay tax. This includes if you are returning from holiday. Its unlikely to happen, but can do.

There are formal processes / declarations that can be made.
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Indeed, but its very rare. As per Hoppy's post, they would only give it a second glance if you are going through with a considerable amount. I've been lucky enough to have flown to many places across the world and I've never been asked to prove purchase dates. That said, I have all my current stuff in an email folder on my phone that can prove this.

And of course this would happen whether you bought in it the UK or grey, so it wouldn't matter where you purchased it from as you'd be just as likely asked if you bought it from Jessops or a backstreet seller in Vietnam.
 
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