Street Photography, a$$ backwards

Shootsyou

Shootsyou

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Ivor
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Recently I had a fantastic experience shooting two rolls off film through a TLR in the busy streets of Chester. It was an experience that left me with quite a few questions about people, perceptions, and strangers interacting like old friends.

There seems to be some unwritten rules applied to street photography....
Blend in to the environment
Use a quick camera
Use a small camera (to help blend in).
You need to be ready to shoot at all times.

It's similar to the advice an apprentice assassin would hear on their first day at killer school!
Mr Cartier Bresson didn't like to be noticed, so much so he painted his cameras all black to avoid them being seen! And his god like status among street togs has cemented the notion that to be good, you have to be invisible.

Personally, and I'm gonna stick my neck out here, I think an unhealthy portion of this thinking is cr@p. Utter cr@p in it's purest form too!

My own view, and it is only my personal view & many will vary, is that Bressons shooting style & tactics (which have been copied to death) were employed to suit the times he lived through & places he found himself. He operated in different times among people with different frustrations.
Back in the day, many folks didn't have a camera of their own, so more motive for robbing a photographer. People weren't used to being photographed. Anonymity was a given & streets weren't filled with lamp posts, police cars, shop cctv etc etc ALL taking your picture!

Candid photography is going on wherever there's an electricity supply & a human being. People are so sick of being photographed candidly from control rooms, that the opportunity to voice their objection to the cameras operator when they've access to him, is understandably often taken up.

So I went back, and just spent three days shooting the streets getting noticed as much as possible by as many as possible. The absolute opposite of candid & what you're supposed to do!
I took a tripod, TLR and very obvious camera bag into town to shamelessly photograph shoppers & shop staff. There's not much 'candid' about welcoming children & parents to check out an old camera! There's something incredible about strangers stopping to talk, then striking up conversation with the next person to stop, then they unite for a brief moment & have their photograph taken together. Total strangers man!! I was enthusiastic about what I wad doing & it showed in those who involved themselves, that they wanted a piece of this. They were having fun being photographed with friends or family, or even a stranger.

In the age when everybody has a camera in their mobile phone, we're all aware that photographs are shot every minute & digitally fired straight onto facebook or twatter or whatever your guilty pleasure is.

So how refreshing & welcome I found it to watch people bored & pi$$ed off with constantly being photographed, to enjoy being photographed! Enjoy smiling with friends while they became part of a novelty act for a moment. Enjoy meeting a new person or people.

I don't care of this comes across as over romanticised. I don't care if I never take a perfect photograph technically brilliant in every way. I don't care if nobody else ever delves into doing this too.

I don't care because I felt something quite powerful about giving pleasure to people for free, giving away shots, letting excited children hit the shutter when mum 'n' dad were in front of the Rollei, and watching people embrace something they don't usually like. I had coffee's bought for me, I met a friend of a friend who's a street photographer in Liverpool & he stayed to watch things unfold with people coming to the camera instead of being hunted by it.
I had phone numbers & email addresses given to me, to pass on the images when the films are developed.

I know I'm not changing anything or doing anything 'radical'. But seeing & feeling what a camera can do, how it can give smiles to friends & couples, excitement to children who want to see the pic of themselves on the touchscreen that isn't there, and how much fun people have, is for me the single best reason to enjoy owning an old film camera!

Fifteen rolls of film spent in three days, many shots will be forwarded to those who asked me to. It's cost me money & it's been worth twice as much or more.

The only thing I don't like about this, is how long it's taken me to find it!


That's all. was thinking out loud folks.
 
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you need to find a polaroid back, or a instax back but sadly theres very few of those :(
that would make it even more magic :)
 
Superb write up of a great idea.

I really want to do street photography but just don't have the bottle.

This approach opens up all sorts of possibilities.

Cheers.
 
Sounds like you had a good three days! :)

I completely disagree with your general point though. What you've done is nothing like Cartier-Bresson; your goals and his (and people who work similarly to him) are completely different and I'm failing to see the reasoning behind saying other ideas of how to shoot street stuff are rubbish when you're actually working to a totally different set of rules, that's like me saying the rules of snooker are rubbish when I'm actually playing pool - they're different things entirely and it makes no sense to compare them directly.

You've gone for interaction with your subjects, Cartier-Bresson and others concern themselves with capturing scenes that exist in a way that isn't influence or changed in any way by the photographer. The ways in which you interact with those situations yourself as a photographer are completely different, I can't in any way see why you're rubbishing a way of thinking that in no way applies to what you were doing.

As for people being so sick of being shot candidly, that sounds extremely over-cynical to me as does the idea of comparing candid street photography to CCTV. I've just spent a week wandering the streets of New York and during that week shot around 1500 frames (on digital), the vast majority of which purposely had people in them. I can guarantee hardly anyone would have realised I was intentionally putting them in the frame. If people notice you're shooting them to the point where you're annoying them you're doing something very wrong!

One of the most basic techniques is to compose a shot and let people walk through the frame (sorry for polluting F&C with digital here, it's for illustrative purposes only!) This guy would have thought he was in the way of my shot when he heard my shutter go when in fact he was central to it working. There are ways of shooting people without annoying them.

I realise (as per my original point) this is very different to what you were going for, I'm just trying to illustrate the point that other ideas of how to go about shooting street stuff aren't crap just because you did something different. :)

Untitled by Paul Nichols, on Flickr
 
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simon ess said:
Superb write up of a great idea.

I really want to do street photography but just don't have the bottle.

This approach opens up all sorts of possibilities.

Cheers.
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Kudos to the likes of Bruce Gilden who's 'Boom flash in the face' approach nourishes the appetite they have for doing it the way they do. But like many things, it's not dangerous, until it goes wrong.

Equally, photographing people without interacting with them & sharing the moment wouldn't feed my appetite, which obviously has different needs than the candid lads & lasses.
I think some photographers are solitary, and my guess would be that many landscape photographers enjoy the solitude they get when out in the hills with their camera?? (That's not a generalization, I'm sure many landscapers are very sociable)
I think the candid street shooter is possibly coming from the same place? Enjoying the solitary quiet element of wandering around alone and candidly photographing people. Feeding & fulfilling there own particular requirements of why they do it, and what it does for them.
And if that's their bag then good on em for doing it the way that works for them and their own needs!

I'm not made that way. My own personal view, is that photographing another human being is a dialog, a photographic instead of spoken one. A dialog between the photographer and the subject, and the camera is just the tool to capture it, for both the person in front of and behind the camera!
There's a wealth of candid shots by the candid shooters that I admire and appreciate. Some of them are staggering even. But those images don't give me any sense of dialog with the photographer, a dialog that transfers onto the image & straight at me when I look at it!

So much as I admire some candid stuff, I personally have different buttons I want to press for myself & my own needs & pleasure when photographing people. This time in town wasn't all posed stuff either. I made myself obvious and photographed plenty of folks who after noticing allowed me to continue, but didn't act for the camera, they worked out for themselves that I was photographing not only them, but what they were doing, so they didn't change it. Afterwards I thanked them and enjoyed some really nice conversations with these folks who were pleasant and seemed genuinely interested in what I was doing.

I loved the last three days even though burning fifteen films has quite a price. I maybe should've put the brakes on a bit, but was enjoying myself too much to discipline such a fun caper.

So you don't need any bottle at all Simon, just go have some fun.
 
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PMN, you're right, what I did was nothing like Cartier Bresson and that's exactly how I wanted it to be.
I wasn't saying candid photography's or its methods are crap. Although having red my post again I maybe did come over a bit strong? The point I was trying to make, was that everywhere i read about street photography I've read the same hard & fast advice that 'this is the way it's done & the way it should be done. Because that's how HCB & many other great photographers did/do it'.
I appreciate that but don't agree that photographing people in the street means they mustn't see you coming. What's wrong with choice? Choice as a photographer going in to the street, be seen or don't be seen?
And choice for the subject? Be in the shot, or stay out of the shot?
It wasn't meant to be fully candid (HCB style), or partially candid prior to firing a flash in someones face (Gilden style). These are the only two methods or copied variations of, shooting in the street I've read about.
I haven't read anywhere that there's another approach to shooting people in the street... You could possibly just put the camera in the street, a different kind of camera that people aren't used to these days, & fire some film through it while it captures what the people make it.

More than anything it wasn't about reinventing the wheel, becoming the new HCB or revolutionizing anything. I'm not deluded. It was just about having fun, and doing it in a way I haven't read about anywhere that's covered photographing people in the street.

It worked for me. And if it works for someone else who's uncomfortable candidly photographing strangers, then that's good. Folks who do enjoy photographing strangers candidly should carry on shooting the way they have fun too.
 
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This was just another way of shooting street photography. I think it is refreshing to be so passionate about shooting differently. Anyone can take a snapshot and call it street photography and that is what most do. I shoot with a 70-200II to keep the subjects candid and that is what I get. I have people tell me that is not "street photography" because (insert name dropping) didn't do it like that. BS!
 
I see just two rules for 'street photography'

1- You need a street.
2- You need something to take photographs.

As long as you've got those two fundamentals covered, whatever your method, choice of camera or goal, it's street photography!!

T'is my opinion that street shooting's wide open to a lot more than just one or two heavily copied methods, with exhausted and repetitive advice on how it's meant to be done.
HCB's and/orGilden's methods are fine, tried & tested for doing it their ways and that's all. Doing it any way they didn't/don't can't be wrong... It can only be different!
 
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shaylou said:
This was just another way of shooting street photography. I think it is refreshing to be so passionate about shooting differently. Anyone can take a snapshot and call it street photography and that is what most do. I shoot with a 70-200II to keep the subjects candid and that is what I get. I have people tell me that is not "street photography" because (insert name dropping) didn't do it like that. BS!
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Horses for courses and people get hung up on the process or technicalities.
I like getting close, getting involved, interacting, however I saw a great series recently of someone shooting people through steamed up bus windows with a 70-200 for isolation. Stunning.

There is no right or wrong way. It's the final image that counts.
 
Shootsyou said:
The point I was trying to make, was that everywhere i read about street photography I've read the same hard & fast advice that 'this is the way it's done & the way it should be done. Because that's how HCB & many other great photographers did/do it'.
I appreciate that but don't agree that photographing people in the street means they mustn't see you coming. What's wrong with choice? Choice as a photographer going in to the street, be seen or don't be seen?
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Everywhere you look for advice on photography, regardless of the style, there are hardcore people who say it 'must' be done xxx way. That's just how it is. Some people blindly follow such advice which is fine if it works for them, but personally I'm more in favour of taking the bits of advice that work for you and taking note of photographers who inspire you, then finding your own style. Photography's a very personal thing, whatever feels right to you *is* right.

You did indeed come across a bit strong at the start, in fact most of the post came across as little more than a hugely cynical rant and your use of language did make it very much seem like you were saying other approaches are crap, but now you've explained it a bit further I can see you're just very passionate about what you do which is great to see. I do think it's possible to love what you do without things outside your genre or style annoying you though, and without feeling the need to put something else down to enhance your own enjoyment of what you're doing. ;) :)
 
PMN said:
Everywhere you look for advice on photography, regardless of the style, there are hardcore people who say it 'must' be done xxx way.
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In everything (not just photography) that's all the encouragement I need to try it another way and prove them wrong (or right!).


Steve.
 
Some people mind, some don't. You just happen to see a lot of videos of "street" photography on the net that only show the ones that don't mind. I've seen plenty of doc's of quite famous old street photographers who do annoy the people they're pionting things at, they just apologise and move on.

i think a lot of the reaction you experienced was down to the gear you used. A TLR on a tripod is a novelty, an slr in someone's face is less so. I find the same thing when i set up my 5x4 somewhere, its a chat magnet, you suddenly become everyone's mate.

I like the dynamism and randomness of shooting a 35mm from the hip covertly and i like the compositional possibilities of setting the big guns up somewhere. Personally, i think modern street photography is awful in general, a lot of the old stuff too, its just that the age of the scene has imparted some historical interest into it.
 
Interesting write up and conversation, good to read peoples views. I don't have an opinion but I've enjoyed everyone elses.
 
Andysnap said:
I don't have an opinion but I've enjoyed everyone elses.
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This, is wisdom!

I shall add questioning/challenging the street photographers universe to my list of 'things to not get embroiled in'....along with the standard politics & religion.
 
In many ways this thread is starting to just annoy me (the OP),its very easy to have a knock at somebody famous,and think you come up with something different,well guess what you havnt,lot of photographer work the street the same way as you do,and lots work the same as HCB and others work different from your way and HBC way.

And as always the proof is in the pudding with the work you turn out,which ever way you go about it :)
 
This is an interesting discussion, "Street photography" is what it says on the can, photos of streets or urban sites but it can be candid and posed, there aren't any set rules as far as I know. Even Henri C-B indulged in both techniques.
Hope that you post some of your work here Ivor.
 
I now have an opinion.....

I do not like the way this is going, let us stop knocking the op for his original post, he has already explained that he may have got a bit excited at the beginning so let's move on from that.
Let's just celebrate the fact that someone else has discovered the joys of film and is enthusiastic about it.

I have spoken, let there be peace.:)
 
Snapped !


Well I'm kinda going with the proof and pudding thing.......and custard.......must have custard.

If it looks like street, it is street cos nobody can prove otherwise.
 
I've got to say it (from behind a protective shield of Internet wall..) but as a Flickr user I'm getting a bit sick of generic 'street' photography.

As an example, someone I've never heard of added me a few weeks ago so I quickly checked out their photo stream and it looked quite interesting so I added them in return. Following this, they seemed to add 10-20 new 'street' shots every day, generally in B&W (digital) that appeared to be just general photographs on general streets of nothing in particular. There were no themes or capturing 'life in a moment', just snaps of random strangers and shop fronts. However, every picture was getting 30-40 favourites and gushing comments from other users about how good the shots were and how they were "capturing life" but I found that they just left me cold and bored. Obviously, each shot was added to about 47,000 different groups and we're all different but I can't help feeling that lots of people try to shoot 'street' as it's fashionable but very few actually deliver shots with any depth or interest (personally)

Anyway, just thought I'd share and this is in no way aimed at the OP as by the sounds of it they've spent some time shooting something they enjoy in a way they enjoy which, to me, is the underlying point of photography.

Cheers
Steve
 
Andysnap said:
I now have an opinion.....

I do not like the way this is going, let us stop knocking the op for his original post, he has already explained that he may have got a bit excited at the beginning so let's move on from that.
Let's just celebrate the fact that someone else has discovered the joys of film and is enthusiastic about it.

I have spoken, let there be peace.:)
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Fair enought,but Andy we no your biased towards film,to me it just about the photo taken on film or digital :)
 
Simon mate, it hasn't got anything to do with bias I just felt it was getting a bit shouty toward the op who seems to have found something that makes him happy. And that's a good thing.

You are however correct though, I am biased towards film.:D
 
Oops, double post.
 
Steve Smith said:
Perhaps some people think street photography is just pictures of streets (this could be why nobody liked my aerial photography!).


Steve.
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you haven't posted any, I love aerials, I lie awake at night dreaming of 5 element quads, delta loops and double bazooka trapped dipoles :D
 
I think I'll try something different next week (though no doubt done before).

Possibly pitch up outside Ann Summers & see if anyone wants to participate in some 'street boudoir'.
 
Shootsyou said:
I think I'll try something different next week (though no doubt done before).

Possibly pitch up outside Ann Summers & see if anyone wants to participate in some 'street boudoir'.
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shoot frilly knickers, leather whips and 10 inch heels and I doubt anyone will even care whether they are street or not :)
 
joxby said:
shoot frilly knickers, leather whips and 10 inch heels and I doubt anyone will even care whether they are street or not :)
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Yeah after carefully considering the likelihood of a backlash, I concluded a unanimous thumbs up was a probability . :D

See? I'm not just thinking of myself!
 
Andysnap said:
Simon mate, it hasn't got anything to do with bias I just felt it was getting a bit shouty toward the op who seems to have found something that makes him happy. And that's a good thing.

You are however correct though, I am biased towards film.:D
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No problem thats somebodys enjoying their photography or people love of film,but having a cheap knock at somebody else way of taking photos (n)
 
Steve Smith said:
Perhaps some people think street photography is just pictures of streets (this could be why nobody liked my aerial photography!).


Steve.
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Not forgetting the now and then street shots (which is one of my hobbies which I'll bore y'all one day with my shots :eek: )...i.e. if you see an old shot of a street, building or whatever you try and take the same shot from the same place with a similar lens (not easy if the shot was taken a very long time ago).
 
shaylou said:
That is just a rude remark that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation but an insult to the op.

Not cool, not cool at all.
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I saw that and just assumed that he'd posted in the wrong thread, it never occurred to me he was being a cock :LOL:
 
I never assume that someone is being a cock.

I tend to assume that someone is using the notoriously semantically tricky medium of forum posts to make a point with a modicum of humour.

Subsequent posts may cause me to re-evaluate of course.
 
stevelmx5 said:
I've got to say it (from behind a protective shield of Internet wall..) but as a Flickr user I'm getting a bit sick of generic 'street' photography.

As an example, someone I've never heard of added me a few weeks ago so I quickly checked out their photo stream and it looked quite interesting so I added them in return. Following this, they seemed to add 10-20 new 'street' shots every day, generally in B&W (digital) that appeared to be just general photographs on general streets of nothing in particular. There were no themes or capturing 'life in a moment', just snaps of random strangers and shop fronts. However, every picture was getting 30-40 favourites and gushing comments from other users about how good the shots were and how they were "capturing life" but I found that they just left me cold and bored. Obviously, each shot was added to about 47,000 different groups and we're all different but I can't help feeling that lots of people try to shoot 'street' as it's fashionable but very few actually deliver shots with any depth or interest (personally)

Anyway, just thought I'd share and this is in no way aimed at the OP as by the sounds of it they've spent some time shooting something they enjoy in a way they enjoy which, to me, is the underlying point of photography.

Cheers
Steve
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I totally agree. I joined one of those groups without really checking it out and found myself surrounded by people that had no clue. I mean they couldn't even expose a shot correctly. But as they posted pictures for critique everyone was falling over telling them how great the shots were. When I did a real critique I was the only one that pointed out flaws. Well that didn't go over well so I left. It was an eye opener to just how ignorant people can be about photography and completely close their eyes to other methods. They already knew everything and were not interested in learning other techniques. I think it is sad but I'm glad that there are so many others that love to learn and explore like I do.
 
simonblue said:
No problem thats somebodys enjoying their photography or people love of film,but having a cheap knock at somebody else way of taking photos (n)
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Its like you're reading a different thread.......or something

The op posted, some replies were a little......robust, Andy said he thought robust was a shade out of order, and then you take exception to......I dunno what really

What's up chuck :)
 
Andysnap said:
I now have an opinion.....

I do not like the way this is going, let us stop knocking the op for his original post, he has already explained that he may have got a bit excited at the beginning so let's move on from that.
Let's just celebrate the fact that someone else has discovered the joys of film and is enthusiastic about it.

I have spoken, let there be peace.:)
Click to expand...


he's the real MESSIAH
 
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