Strobist Advice

Huss

Huss

Messages
241
Name
Huss
Edit My Images
No
Hi All,

I am really quite new to all this photography so let me apologize in advance if any of my questions are somewhat ill educated or seem silly. Now one aspect that really appeals to me is strobist photography (i hope that is the correct phrase) The problem is when it comes to what equipment to buy it seems to be a bit of a minefield. Hence my post. So I am hoping some of you kind ladies and gentlemen will be able to offer me some pointers.

At present I have a Canon 450D and no flash. I have looked at Canon's own flashes and they seem to get poor reception when compared to Nikon's. However, I have also heard that us canon users, can make use of Nikon Flashes, I seem to remember a piece of advice mentioning SB flashes as a cheap and reliable option, but not sure they would work with my camera. If is is are there any special considerations I need to bear in mind?

I have also heard mention of Vivitar (not sure if it is the correct spelling) flashes as a good option

I am looking to spend about £300 - £400 max So would appreciate any advice offered

Thanks in advance for any advice offered.
 
as long as you dont expect to mount them on top of the camera, (ie using wireless triggers etc) then you can use a flash set up for any system as long as you can get a cable to fire them. most flashguns have a sync port on the side, or you can get hotshoe adaptors that fix to the bottom, and have a sync port in them.

i would probably buy at least one canon fit flash at least, so that you could mount it on camera if req. as for the rest, i would use wireless(the cactus triggers from ebay seem to have got more reliable from what i have read). remember you will need a reciever for each flash unit.

dont forget stands and brollies/softboxes etc which can really add to your costs.

to start with, i would get a canon flash 2nd hand or new, then in the for sale forum, Flash in the pan is selling some softboxes, umbrellas and umbrella mounts. i would pick some of them up and work it from there
 
Hi Huss, personally I have a 550EX and 580EX and two Nikon SB-28's, for the stobisty kind of stuff the SB-28's get much more use. From what I can see, the main reasons people tend to go for the Nikon equipment is that they packed quite a few very hand features into their older gear.
the sb-28's for instance, are pretty damn powerful, have a tilt and zoom head (means you can narrow/widen the area that the flash head illuminates - v.handy) and have a fairly quick recycle time.

It's been yonks since I stumped up for much of the gear but these days these 'off camera flashes' tend to command rather high retail prices... so much so I've always found London Camera Exchanges shops often have the flashes cheaper (where I got my sb-28's), so do try there. I paid £65 each for them.

I'm trying to remember off the top of my head what other things I have to make your life a bit easier when purchasing... here's what I can remember

Portaflash Light stand - £15(?)
portaflash universal brolly bracket £20(?)
Jessops pc/hot shoe adaptor £10(?)
umbrellas £8(?)
cactus trigger and receivers (cant remember)

then you should get a largeish reflector if you afford one, a grey card, and flash gels.

that should get you hitting the ground running.

ads
 
Thanks for the prompt responses, much appreciated. I will take a looksie on Ebay to see if I can pick up some bargains then.

Cheers
 
Canon introduced E-TTL II as their new standard flash system some years ago now, and since then there is no signifcant difference between the functionality and performance of Nikon and Canon flashes. They both work in essentially the same way, similar power, same features etc. The big difference is the Nikon on-board camera flash can be used to control other flashes in a strobist set up, and with Canon you need either a 580EX gun which doubles up as a Master unit, or an ST-E2 Master controller.

For your budget, you could just about get a 580EXII and a 430EXII which is a mighty potent combo, if you buy carefully (get a quote from kerso - PM him under that name from here).

If you can afford Canon, I would go with that. They are very good quality, sophisticated and powerful guns. Tons of strobist accessories. I would not go for cheaper, non E-TTLII guns as one of the big things that has made stobist techniques popular is the amazing automated exposure technology built in to modern units, which works seamlessly with the camera's normal metering (actually it's the same metering working with both, but separately). The built-in IR wireless sync lets you link everything up over a reasonable distance, even outdoors.
 
Hi Hoppy, thanks for the feedback. One concern I have with the suggest setup is, do I have to work on line of sight for the IR to work. Excuse my ignorance but I always thought that was a necessary evil when using IR?

thanks again for the advice so far
 
For the price of one 580EXII you could build a full Strobist kit, if you went for Nikon flashes and something like a set of Skyports to trigger them...
 
Huss said:
Hi Hoppy, thanks for the feedback. One concern I have with the suggest setup is, do I have to work on line of sight for the IR to work. Excuse my ignorance but I always thought that was a necessary evil when using IR?

thanks again for the advice so far
Click to expand...

Working indoors, my Canon 580EX guns will IR sync pretty much anywhere, anyhow - never had a problem. I just tried it and with the guns pointing in oppositive directions along the length of 6m room (so you could argue a combined distance of 12m) and they fire 100%. I think it would be quite difficult to get them to fail indoors.

And out of interest, I went outside to check Canon's 15m claim with direct line of sight, and that worked perfectly too. But I wouldn't take that as gospel under all conditions, especially in bright sun (it's obviously dark now). However, as an observation, in practise isn't it quite an unusual lighting situation when both the camera and all the lights are not within about a 5m circle? And with easy line of sight?

If you do have range issues, the only way around it is to use radio triggers, but I think I'm right in saying that the only radio triggers to retain full E-TTL functionality are the top of the range PocketWizards, which cost a rocket. They are sound friggin brilliant though :)

As a comment, the wireless triggering is not actually infrared. The command is sent in a pulse-coded pre-flash via visible light, received as semi-IR through the slave's red sensor. If you use the ST-E2 as a command unit, that is semi-IR and the range of that is less than you get with the full-fat 580EX (about half I read somewhere).
 
thanks for taking the time to test that Hoppy, It certainly makes the canon's appealing but What Flash says sound just as appealling, as I am a tight fisted bugger, Kids and missus to look after :)

What Nikon flashs (besides the SB28's as these seem quite rare on ebay atm) would everyone suggest?

Flash did you happen to have a specific strobist setup in mind?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks once again for all you help so far
 
I use a Canon 430 EX with a cactus trigger and 2 x Nikon SB 26's which have built in optical sensors :)

Nikon flashes are a nightmare to get at a good price, even the 15 year old ones due to their strobist popularity.

I would personally buy a 430 EX II (search out Kerso) so you have one perfect flash with your camera and a softbox (see this thread http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=149472) and a wireless trigger or sync cord. Take a look at cactus triggers on ebay if you want cheap triggers or pocket wizards if you want to splash some cash. Get light stands from 7dayshop.

Once you have one light you can experiment with that until you are ready for more. Gadget infinity do the vivitars now, but basically any old flash for the extra flashes as long as they have full manual. Nikon SB24, 25, 26 are the strobists main choice but you pay the price for old gear. Deffinately get a single 430 imo though as it will work amazing on camera as well. Only problem with them is the standby mode but it's a minor annoyance.

It's a matter of scouring ebay really :(
 
Huss said:
thanks for taking the time to test that Hoppy, It certainly makes the canon's appealing but What Flash says sound just as appealling, as I am a tight fisted bugger, Kids and missus to look after :)

What Nikon flashs (besides the SB28's as these seem quite rare on ebay atm) would everyone suggest?

Flash did you happen to have a specific strobist setup in mind?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks once again for all you help so far
Click to expand...

LOL :) With cash in mind, a Full Monty Canon set up is great, but expensive. If you want to play the strobist with a few heads, then as has been said pretty much any old gun will do, provided it has manual output (don't they all?). It would be handy to have maybe half power and quarter power settings also, but you can quite easily vary the light by moving back or forwards (check out inverse square law ;) ).

Of course, you will lose the E-TTL auto convenience but then if you are setting up with softboxes and stands etc then a bit of fiddling with manual exposure control isn't going to be too much extra. Once you've experimented with a couple of set ups, you should have a good idea of what's what.

InkZ post above seems spot on to me. Maybe get a 580EXII instead of a 430EXII if you can afford it, as it will work as a Master unit when/if you get the pukka E-TTL set up; 430EXII will not. Kerso sells a 580EXII for about £280 I think. He's a respected independent trader on here, you can PM him direct as kerso.
 
Thanks Inkz and Hoppy, I have a clearer understanding of the necessary equipment now and will be able to make an educated purchase choice.
 
HoppyUK said:
Working indoors, my Canon 580EX guns will IR sync pretty much anywhere, anyhow - never had a problem. I just tried it and with the guns pointing in oppositive directions along the length of 6m room (so you could argue a combined distance of 12m) and they fire 100%. I think it would be quite difficult to get them to fail indoors.

And out of interest, I went outside to check Canon's 15m claim with direct line of sight, and that worked perfectly too. But I wouldn't take that as gospel under all conditions, especially in bright sun (it's obviously dark now). However, as an observation, in practise isn't it quite an unusual lighting situation when both the camera and all the lights are not within about a 5m circle? And with easy line of sight?

If you do have range issues, the only way around it is to use radio triggers, but I think I'm right in saying that the only radio triggers to retain full E-TTL functionality are the top of the range PocketWizards, which cost a rocket. They are sound friggin brilliant though :)

As a comment, the wireless triggering is not actually infrared. The command is sent in a pulse-coded pre-flash via visible light, received as semi-IR through the slave's red sensor. If you use the ST-E2 as a command unit, that is semi-IR and the range of that is less than you get with the full-fat 580EX (about half I read somewhere).
Click to expand...

Thought I'd try the IR triggering range outdoors a bit more today, as the sun's out.

When the sun is behind a cloud, it works well and I could get up to 15m pretty consistently with direct line of sight (one 580EX as Master, triggering another 580EX as Slave).

But when the sun came out, shining directly on to the IR receiver (ambient exposure 1/250sec at f/16, ISO400) it dropped dramatically. It was reliable at 5m, but not happy at all at 6m.

I think this is actually quite workable, and reading Joe McNally's book The Hot Shoe Diaries (triffic book - pretty much the strobists' bible) http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0321580141/?tag=googhydr-21&hvadid=3787711441&ref=pd_sl_3cmqvh3qhn_b I see that he doesn't use radio triggers and is a big fan of Nikon's iTTL cleverness. If he can trigger seven units in the desert, then that'll do for me :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top