The Official Fuji X10/X20/X30/XF1/XQ1 Thread

Asa (and anyone else who is interested) - here's a challenge for you to delve into.
Because it's got me beat...

Two 'identical' images.
One is how I remember it, the other is from an alien world.
i-9D9BN2M-S.jpg
i-nqVSsDg-S.jpg


The only difference is that one is an out of camera JPEG, and the other is converted in LR4.3 using default settings.
The lurid cyan is the RAW conversion.
I've noticed this weather is producing some decidedly dodgy results.

I've played with white balance etc in LR and I can't get the blue looking right.
I may be about to stop using RAW.
Thoughts please!

Here's a link to the RAW. The colours in Lightroom are way off.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/25tmspx5dzijhld/DSCF0634.RAF

And for comparison here's the JPEG I created by loading the RAW back into the X10 and using in-camera conversion. The colours in this are correct.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvhes9n3u0ww7hq/DSCF0661.JPG
 
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DuncanDisorderly said:
Which ones - stormy seas or the woods?
It's very hard to separate my recollections of being there from the images.
I'm interested why they don't work for you.

My images are often Marmite; that's fine.
But please have a think.
Click to expand...



Stormy Seas - I don't think the images show the full extent, power and force of the sea as you witnessed it, apart from the rocks in the background there is nothing to show the full scale of the waves.

I would have loved to have been there to see it for myself.
 
Guys, whats your view on getting the best from the EXR technology (both software and hardware side)

I'm still certain that for 99% of pics, its best leaving the camera on medium (6 mp)...

Today, set to large, dr 100, iso 100 - cant do more iso to get DR up as it will break the 1/1000th shutter limit (and i want f2.8 in this example)
= some blown highlights....i wanted more DR here, but i'm on large and at 12mp.

I'm getting much better results on 6mp using the EXR (hardware i guess its using here rather than the 'other', software EXR?) are you getting good results from it? 12mp, well, i just dont see the use as sometimes your extra resolution will have more noise than 6 if you use SN for example? You would have been better using 6 mp? - its really a 6mp camera ( not a prob for me)

What do find useful? Am i talking complete tripe, please stop me.... :)

Also, as an aside, I have c2 set to DR EXR mode, but this wont allow flash to fire, whats the score here then? I wanted DR 400 and also some fill flash, but this isnt allowed it would seem. Ok, this is being a bit extreme, but still, a little frustrating...flash only for dr100??

Cheers.
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
Asa (and anyone else who is interested) - here's a challenge for you to delve into.
Because it's got me beat...

Two 'identical' images.
One is how I remember it, the other is from an alien world.
i-9D9BN2M-S.jpg
i-nqVSsDg-S.jpg


The only difference is that one is an out of camera JPEG, and the other is converted in LR4.3 using default settings.
The lurid cyan is the RAW conversion.
I've noticed this weather is producing some decidedly dodgy results.

I've played with white balance etc in LR and I can't get the blue looking right.
I'd be happy to upload the RAW if anyone is interested in having a go.
I may be about to stop using RAW.
Thoughts please!
Click to expand...

I was getting that odd colour in RAW from the sea as well! Had to play around with the HSL to correct it in lightroom.

As for you comment about pixel peeping, the only reason I started doing so in the first place was because of noticing it in the full image just on my computer monitor. The JPEG just looked mushy compared to the RAW, that was what made me look deeper.
 
Billy said:
Stormy Seas - I don't think the images show the full extent, power and force of the sea as you witnessed it, apart from the rocks in the background there is nothing to show the full scale of the waves.

I would have loved to have been there to see it for myself.
Click to expand...

Phew! That's ok!
Apart from not being particularly safe at the waters edge, it was like trying to photograph under a salt water shower. The lower I got, the worse it got.
However, I hope they still tell a story to anyone who likes watching waves.

P.S. Love the light on your model. If you could replicate that setup with a real person then I'd rate it right up there with the very best.
Got to be worth a go :D
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
Phew! That's ok!
Apart from not being particularly safe at the waters edge, it was like trying to photograph under a salt water shower. The lower I got, the worse it got.
However, I hope they still tell a story to anyone who likes watching waves.

P.S. Love the light on your model. If you could replicate that setup with a real person then I'd rate it right up there with the very best.
Got to be worth a go :D
Click to expand...


It would be nice but I only have plastic figures and no willing models, so for now I'll just have to make do with what I can, at least it's a bit of practice. The image was just 1 from about 20 so it proves that if you persevere and keep changing the camera settings in the end you'll get an OK image. That's how it usually works for me.
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
Phew! That's ok!
I hope they still tell a story to anyone who likes watching waves.
Click to expand...

I absolutely love them and can see they will recreate, for you, the memories of being there. I wasn't there but only need to close my eyes for an odd second, or two, and can easily imagine. Conditions sounded horrendous so Duncan I hope you didn't endanger your life to get these shots on TP :nono:
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
Souldeep...
Wow - that's raised the bar pretty high for 2013. :clap:
Your pano problems are quite visible in that set.
I don't seem to be suffering except where there is nothing for the X10 to work out how fast I'm rotating and it get's it wrong. Just a thought, are you saving the originals? I'm not, but I could imagine that if you were then the X10 would have to work a LOT harder.
LOL at the self-portrait :D
Click to expand...

Thanks Duncan - always a confidence boost to hear your kind support :)

Nope not on. I have raised this a few times in the thread. Guess it call to Fuji time as most of you don't witness this issue :(

DuncanDisorderly said:
5) The poor X10 was soaked in salt spray with the lens licked clean before wiping with my t-shirt :wacky:
i-sV9w48n-X3.jpg
Click to expand...

:clap: I love this one - it's so hard to put some of those shots into scale e.g. the size of the waves. You could have asked your mum to stand the other side to give us a scale but I'm guessing you preferred the idea of dinner yesterday evening :p

On the second set I love shot number 2 of the beech. Great light and nice comp.

Finally on your challenge - I must be blind. I can't see much difference. The one on the right looks slightly lighter but can't see the alien world you talk about. Oh dear I'd better check my pictures closer if you dislike the one on the right over the one on the left. Honestly you could have posted either and I'd of felt the same about the shots!

Craig - that's really very kind and thank you :D

Yvonne thank you and a very happy 2013 to you too :)

Dave - cheers for the love ;)

John - :LOL: they got me to the top of that peak - and by god those flip flops have got me to the top of some peaks in the Atlas mountains and many other extreme places. I think in the right hands they may just be a samurai's lethal weapon. Think John Cleese and the fish slapping episode but with Havanna's instead - the carnage!!! Hope you had a nice xmas :)

Billy thanks! Your picture has tripped me right out. For a minute I was wondering if it was self portrait (like you are into paint ball or something) then realised the face just wasn't real. Wow. What a different shot to have posted!

Gary - perfect point to choose to shoot the pano. Amazing shot for NY day. You should have joined your daughter and her friends. The sea refreshes the soul whatever time of the year and I'll let you into a secret. This time of the year the water is much warmer in that out. It's March/April that requires the most cahouners!

PS slightly bad news for you all. I posted some of the first shot from Seoul (about 20% of the way through upload). There was just over a 1000 in total and still waiting for them to finish uploading. I won't be posting that amount of course but will post a second set a some point... hehe
 
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That's a great set souldeep! Really enjoyed them.

Great storm pics from duncan, you can sense the power.
 
AESamuel said:
I think this works out about right but let me know what you think! Do you think I've made the right choice?

Also, to others who use the jpegs (I know souldeep is one) what do you have these set to to get the most clarity out of your photographs?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Asa - thanks for taking the time to share those technical results - especially on hang over New Years Day!

If you go with noise reduction I would go with -1 not -2. Think of higher ISO's. This is where you are really going to notice the noise if you switch it off. In my opinion the reason the X10 produces such good high ISO shots is because Fuji have got a good software noise processing option in cam. I only have sharpness set to -1 because of advice from Lindsay and Duncan. It helps create a slightly roomier shot. The set I posted yesterday is not -1 though. Only my latest stuff e.g. the set from the Art event I posted a few weeks back.

I am impressed with the JPG's. I tried working with the RAW but found that the results couldn't really better the JPG's so I now save space and shoot in JPG by default with the occasional RAW where light is really difficult.

Thanks again for taking the time! Your sort of posts really help out newcomers that want to understand the differences between the settings.
 
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Ed Sutton said:
I've noticed the same, both in my own shots and quite a few posted on here. Shoving the purple and magenta sliders over to the left in LR has improved mine.
Click to expand...

Duncan now I've seen them on my work monitor I can see the colour differences much clearer. Instead of using LR to convert the RAW - do you have another package you can check it in? This will help extract if it's something to do with LR RAW conversion for the Fuji RAW files or something going wrong in Cam. I think it's most likely to be LR conversion.
 
souldeep said:
Duncan now I've seen them on my work monitor I can see the colour differences much clearer. Instead of using LR to convert the RAW - do you have another package you can check it in? This will help extract if it's something to do with LR RAW conversion for the Fuji RAW files or something going wrong in Cam. I think it's most likely to be LR conversion.
Click to expand...

Here's a link to the RAW. The colours in Lightroom are way off.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/25tmspx5dzijhld/DSCF0634.RAF

And for comparison here's the JPEG I created by loading the RAW back into the X10 and using in-camera conversion. The colours in this are correct.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvhes9n3u0ww7hq/DSCF0661.JPG

I don't have any other RAW converters with me.
Any chance you, or anyone else reading this, could have a look please.
 
Lindsay D said:
As a fuji owner maybe you can download it from Fuji's site?
Click to expand...

LOL - not from here :D
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=5219063&postcount=5178

Broadband in the wilds is at best similar to dial-up (except the phone still works), and unlike dial-up this broadband stops communicating for 10-60 seconds at a time; presumably when someone nearer the exchange uses the internet.
It took me a long time to get that RAW uploaded to share; large downloads are out of the question!
 
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Lindsay D said:
Ah I see - didn't realise you were right out in the wild ..... I could do with some of that, it's only 2 January and I'm already fit to scream!
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention this as I was mulling over an idea last night.....
So I'll use your frustration as a way of airing my thoughts.

Last week I posted a piccy of a house my Mum fell in love with.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=5222471&postcount=5199
It's right on the high tide line of a beach regularly voted as one of the best in the UK and is perfectly situated for exploring the west coast of Scotland.
i-zTNL9Qj-X3.jpg


I found the self-catering details for it, and to my surprise it has four bedrooms (most self-catering cottages are three or two bedroom aimed at families); this makes it very suitable for a group of photographers.
http://www.road-to-the-isles.org.uk/accommodation-details.php?id=62
Better still, it has one of Scotlands best coastal campsites about 200m away over a small rise.
http://coolcamping.co.uk/campsites/uk/scotland/north/inverness-shire/camusdarach
http://www.road-to-the-isles.org.uk/accommodation-details.php?id=27
The campsite would be perfect for people leaving the decision to the last minute or wanting a cost effective alternative, and the house would be a perfect all weather base for the group.
It would rely on enough people agreeing a date and committing to booking space in the house. After that it gets much easier.

Plus - I'd be happy to act as guide as I know this area extremely well :)

So that is my random collection of thoughts...
Not really sure if it's realistic or would appeal to enough people.
What next? :shrug:
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
Funny you should mention this as I was mulling over an idea last night.....
So I'll use your frustration as a way of airing my thoughts.

Last week I posted a piccy of a house my Mum fell in love with.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=5222471&postcount=5199
It's right on the high tide line of a beach regularly voted as one of the best in the UK and is perfectly situated for exploring the west coast of Scotland.
i-zTNL9Qj-X3.jpg


I found the self-catering details for it, and to my surprise it has four bedrooms (most self-catering cottages are three or two bedroom aimed at families); this makes it very suitable for a group of photographers.
http://www.road-to-the-isles.org.uk/accommodation-details.php?id=62
Better still, it has one of Scotlands best coastal campsites about 200m away over a small rise.
http://coolcamping.co.uk/campsites/uk/scotland/north/inverness-shire/camusdarach
http://www.road-to-the-isles.org.uk/accommodation-details.php?id=27
The campsite would be perfect for people leaving the decision to the last minute or wanting a cost effective alternative, and the house would be a perfect all weather base for the group.
It would rely on enough people agreeing a date and committing to booking space in the house. After that it gets much easier.

Plus - I'd be happy to act as guide as I know this area extremely well :)

So that is my random collection of thoughts...
Not really sure if it's realistic or would appeal to enough people.
What next? :shrug:
Click to expand...

I'm game! Would be up for a long weekend. Travel up on the Friday, Travel back on the Monday so three night stay. What sort of cost are we looking at and what is the driving distance? I guess from London would be similar distance as it would from your place. When would be the best time of year for sun?

EDIT Aha - £525 for the place for a week. So not really a place you can have for a weekend. Hmmm. Best months it cost 700 so maybe June or September worth considering. I don't know what the weather is like up in Scotland at that time of the year. Every time I see a weather forecast it’s raining and cold ;)
 
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This would be really interesting if possible, and I would really like to join in somehow. I guess if some wanted to go for the week and some for the weekend a cost-sharing arrangement might be possible. On average, I think you get better weather in West Scotland in May/June (and fewer midges than in July/August, when it's often bucketing down).
 
So how about late June say from the 24th for one week. Duncan do you know if that week is avalible?

Do you think the sharing would work if I was to only make the Friday to the Sunday night?
 
souldeep said:
So how about late June say from the 24th for one week. Duncan do you know if that week is avalible?

Do you think the sharing would work if I was to only make the Friday to the Sunday night?
Click to expand...

First - it's way to long a journey to come up here for a long weekend; for me, a week is the minimum to make it worth while.
A lot of people don't realise just how big Scotland is; partly because of the distorted map of the UK used on the TV weather, and partly because most people think Cornwall and the Lake District are a long way from London and this shouldn't be much further.
For me living in Somerset, the Scottish border is only half way; and this cottage is only half way up Scotland!
Distances in Scotland are vast; I used 2/3 a tank of diesel getting here, but have used a full tank running around. When I used to mountaineer I typically did 1000 miles running around during a fortnight break.
If you still can only manage a long weekend, then camping or B&B would be a better bet rather than faff around with a part week self-catering.

Second - June is getting into midge territory.
The weather up here doesn't follow the same pattern as the rest of the UK.
Look at the workshop dates on Colin Prior's website; he really knows this region and those are pretty much optimum slots for maximising chances of good weather with minimum midges. The August workshop is a puzzle as Mum says the midges are still about, it rains a lot and it's busy because the school's are out; maybe it's being driven by availability of the Knoydart lodge.
http://www.colinprior.co.uk/store/photography-trips/
If you have never suffered the Highland Midge, they are horrific and pretty much prevent any sitting or standing around outside, especially during periods of good weather.
For photography, April/May or Oct/Nov are definitely the months to aim for.

Just my 2p :)
 
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Lindsay D said:
As a fuji owner maybe you can download it from Fuji's site?
Click to expand...

I decided to give that a go, and the answer is NO!

The Fuji X10 support site only has links to download MyFinePix Studio and the X10 firmware.
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x10/support/
MyFinePix Studio contains the following small print - "This software doesn't include USB driver and RAW file converter.".

It took 3 hours to download, and I can confirm that when you double click an X10 RAW file in MyFinePix Studio it opens Photoshop.
Presumably there is something else supplied on the CD.

Meanwhile, if anyone has Silkypix installed - please could you download my RAW file, convert it using defaults settings and tell us if it looks closest to the Adobe or in-camera RAW conversion.
Ta!
 
This is your raw file, taken in to silkipix and nothing done at all except saved as Jpg.

The problem is in looking at at the open raw in Silkipix prior to saving as a jpg... it looks far more purple on the screen than the resulting Jpg output. If you were to adjust it you would get a different result again.

DSCF0634_zps6557cb2e.jpg
[/IMG]

The Lightroom results always need more adjustment as it does not seem to understand the camera settings data. so colour balance will not be as taken.
 
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This is another version using vuescan to convert.
.
You have to make manual adjustment as it can not read the colour instructions from the camera. The sky can not be matched but the other colours could have more variety?

Scan-130103-0001_zps8857eef4.jpg
 
Thanks for taking the time to do the conversion.
They both look a heck of a lot closer than the Adobe RAW converter.
Silkipix is the clear winner (no surprise there), with Vuewscan sort of getting about half way between the in-camera JPEG and the horrors of the Abode conversion.

Here's the in-camera JPEG and Abobe JPEG I posted earlier for comparison.
DuncanDisorderly said:
i-9D9BN2M-S.jpg
i-nqVSsDg-S.jpg
Click to expand...

Until Adobe pull their proverbial fingers out and release the much awaited 'improved' EXR conversion algorithm I think I'll be following LindsayD's lead and only using RAW when I have to.
 
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At least vuescan does not give the strange mosiac result like Silkypix and adobe when you blow them up.

But like prints from film negs there is no Truth just preference.
I too just use jpegs from the x10.
 
I've just discovered that I've fixed a long standing annoyance on the X10...

You know the command dial?
And that rotating the dial is stupidly sensitive and often changes settings when you don't mean to?
Mine is fixed :D:D:D

It's a side effect of the salt water shower it got photographing storm waves; the command dial is now quite stiff and needs a positive effort to be rotated (y)
I only spotted it when my thumb slipped, and I had an 'Uh Uh' moment while I tried to work out what settings I'd accidentally changed, then realised the dial didn't move and I was OK.
Salt water surgery ? :thinking:

As long as it doesn't get any worse (or any other side effects) I'll be a happy lad.
But knowing my luck, next time I give the X10 a fresh water shower it'll free itself back up.
But in the mean time - YAY :D
 
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Time to lower the overall image quality, and just add a couple of images from a local fun event... drumroll... the Annual Kenilworth Duck Race! Normally held on Boxing Day, this year it was postponed to New Year's Day as the brook was too full. I couldn't quite see the start (or the finish for that matter), but here they are just after the start; as you can see there are already some leaders...

DSCF4605.jpg


There are something like 2-3,000 ducks, and the casualty rate is pretty high, so the ambulence crews have to follow along... but the hard-hearted *******s just chuck the ducks back in:

DSCF4615.jpg


We bought a duck per head as usual, but also as usual not a hope of a prize! Run by the Lions for their local charities!

Completely loony, doncha just love it?

(PS that's my first go at a watermark with Aperture... I think something's not quite right there!)
 
Hehe - what great fun Chris! I'd be sorely tempted to sneak in my Radio Controlled shark and create some carnage.

The thing is with water marks - they are generally transparent as to make a minimal distraction from the photo. I see what you are trying to achieve with your block of white but it may be worth playing with just a white signature as well and see if you prefer that.

Duncan - a slightly unorthodox way to sort out the command dial. Did you know you can lock it using menu options?
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
Thanks for taking the time to do the conversion.
They both look a heck of a lot closer than the Adobe RAW converter.
Silkipix is the clear winner (no surprise there), with Vuewscan sort of getting about half way between the in-camera JPEG and the horrors of the Abode conversion.

Here's the in-camera JPEG and Abobe JPEG I posted earlier for comparison.


Until Adobe pull their proverbial fingers out and release the much awaited 'improved' EXR conversion algorithm I think I'll be following LindsayD's lead and only using RAW when I have to.
Click to expand...

Hi Duncan, and others. Haven't been much around here. Been awfully busy; don't know with what, really :thinking:

Just for good measure, I imported your RAW into RawTherapee (4.0.9) and did 1.) just an export as JPG (the neutral one), and 2.) an auto-levels adjustment without any sharpening or other corrective measures.

1.) neutral

DSCF0634-neutral by Robenroute, on Flickr


2.) auto-levels

DSCF0634-auto-levels by Robenroute, on Flickr


If I compare the RT produced JPGs with the SP one, I see that RT only takes part of the image (not the full resolution), and that the RT images are much grainier than the SP one. I have no copy of LR, so I cannot compare easily, but my impression is that SP produces the best results (with a bit of tinkering, perhaps).

Hope this adds to the discussion.


P.S. I finally bit the bullet and sent my X10 in for a sensor swap (oh dear, what have I done :eek:)


Regards,
Rob
 
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My X-10 arrived yesterday, just as I was trying to wire in a new cooker so no time to have a proper play. It's come down to North Cornwall with me for the weekend and I'm using it as much as possible. Mainly been playing with longish exposures - getting some examples of a fastish flowing stream at assorted shutter speeds from 1/30th down to 15s as well as a couple of seascapes at 30" (including one with a bit of flash to illuminate a nearby cliff).

Some features on it that I like, other bits where I far prefer it's little brother the XF-1. Possibly down to familiarity but could well be something more fundamental! Pleased with the results so far - just need to fiddle with the in camera processing settings a bit - at the moment, everything's set to 0 but obviously needs a little adjustment. Want to experiment with the metering too - centre weighted seems a little too centrecentric (but it may be set to spot, knowing my eyesight!)

Oddly, one of the things that attracted me to the X-10 as well as the XF-1 was the OVF but TBH, it's only slightly better than useless! OK, it's nicer for framing but apart from a green glow out of the corner of the eye to tell me it's focussed, there's no information available. I'm no fan of EVFs but at least they tell you aperture and shutter speed settings and give a level!

It came with a fancy 1/2 case and a few other odds and sods - I'm sure the FS thread's still available. The only bit's I'm using of that are the cap, wrist strap and oversize shutter button and I'm not convinced about 2 of them... Might well be a few accessories in the FS section before too long - need to figure out prices that aren't seen as profiteering (I bought it as a bundleso no idea of 2nd hand values of the bits).
 
Nod, the OVF was one of the reasons I went for my X10, nearly a year ago! 've probably not used it for 80% of the shots, going instead for "stinky nappy mode", to paraphrase Kirk Tuck. But in bright light (Israel and Greece last year), it is invaluable. I love it AND hate it! Oh, if only it had at least a minimum of information in it!...

But, hang on a minute, isn't there a strong rumour that on Monday the X20 will be introduced with an OVF with at least some information in it? I think if I'd just bought a X10 I'd be making sure the receipt is in a secure place in case I feel an urgent desire to return it next week.:D:D:D

PS will we try to subsume the X20 into this thread or let another one start naturally? I guess it depends (a) on Duncan and (b) on how different the X20 is from the X10!
 
Hi Gary - good rustic subject. Slightly dark exposure on my screen but that may just be my laptop.

Nod - as Chris says - if only you could have hung tight for a few days the OVF issue looks like it might be resolved on the new X20. The new silver black version looks lush. Importantly "AF speed of 0.06 seconds" - that will please many that I know on this thread have gone off the X10 becuase they are not happy with the AF response times.

http://www.fujirumors.com/

Now what's it going to be priced at!?
 
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