The pinnicle of DSLR technology?

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Are we nearing the pinnicle of DSLR technology, are there any real advancements to be made anymore? For me I feel we're pretty much there, sure we can cram in more mega pixels on to a sensor and maybe improve AF but really they are only small steps.

Are Canon and Nikon current flag ships cameras the best we'll get?
I just get the feeling they can't offer anything new or innovative, sure there is the video side but that just computing power.

So each new model offers

More MP
Faster AF
4K 8K whatever Kind video

And that's about it, maybe improvements in some feature that you don't use.
 
I'm sure DSLR's can improve. We may see a new sensor technology and there's the possibility of incorporating some sort of hybrid overview VF technology which will allow some of the in view things mirrorless cameras have. Maybe another thing could be some sort of automatic MA feature to stop or at least reduce some of the faff on DSLR users have with lenses.
 
When the 5d classic came out I remember a few folk wondering how it could ever be better.
 
Reduction in size and weight. Micro 4/3rds has shown what can be achieved in this area. I used to be a dedicated Canon shooter but usually ended up leaving a lot of my kit at home/in the hotel because it was just too heavy to be carrying around all day. I also bought the Canon 100-400 MkI at some point but never used it out of the house because of the size and weight. This also taught me it was probably not a good idea (for me) to invest in any of the Canon super telephoto primes.

Face recognition. I think the Canon 5D Mark IV has this now, but when I bought an Olympus E-M5 and a Panasonic GH2 as a lower-weight alternative to my Canon 5D MkII, the biggest gain for me was that the E-M5 and the GH2 focused on faces by default and did it very well, so no more missing the shot because you're trying to select the right focus point, or slightly missing the focus and ruining an otherwise great shot.

I still use Canon but I regard it as my "medium-format" system now. It will still deliver the ultimate image quality when needed, especially in low light.
 
There is an awful long way to go on the software and connectivity side.
 
I think the mistake is to assume all advancements will come in terms of image quality, Canon has been pretty much stood still here for a while I believe. For example:

Maybe another thing could be some sort of automatic MA feature to stop or at least reduce some of the faff on DSLR users have with lenses.

Already exists on the D5 (and maybe D500?) and is a great feature I would imagine.

I'm sure there will be other things assuming the industry survives well enough to invest in R&D.

edit: that's not to say DSLRs aren't already beyond what most people need, they have been for years. Remember when people kept saying that 6mp were enough and 12 was just an unnecessary extravagance?
 
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I think wireless connectivity can be improved dramatically still, to ensure an entirely fluid experience with transferring images etc. It makes life so much easier!
 
You can bet your last pound that the 2030 model cameras are sat in a r & d lab somewhere in Japan ,but each year they release a new camera with a few minor improvements to keep us buying ,the newest model will sell at premium prices for the first six months to a year then drop in price dramatically .as the next must have minor improvement comes along .

Most of us these days just take photos that are displayed online ,with only a small percentage actually printing things out for non commercial use ,the statement from Nikon a few years back still holds true in that case you don't need more than 12mp resolution .

But we will still keep buying the latest must have to think it's the universal panacea
 
You can bet your last pound that the 2030 model cameras are sat in a r & d lab somewhere in Japan ,but each year they release a new camera with a few minor improvements to keep us buying...
I think your cynicism is misplaced. Have you seen the numbers for the camera market recently? DSLR sales down 50% in 4 years (2012 to 2016). Total value of *all* camera gear shipped from Japan - compacts, mirrorless, DSLRs, lenses - down 44% in the same 4 years. If they're deliberately only releasing minor improvements to keep us buying, it's pretty stupid because it ain't working.

Source: http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/how-bad-is-it.html
 
I think your cynicism is misplaced. Have you seen the numbers for the camera market recently? DSLR sales down 50% in 4 years (2012 to 2016). Total value of *all* camera gear shipped from Japan - compacts, mirrorless, DSLRs, lenses - down 44% in the same 4 years. If they're deliberately only releasing minor improvements to keep us buying, it's pretty stupid because it ain't working.

Source: http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/how-bad-is-it.html
I think part of that is the real improvements made in Mobile phone camera tech, which means people are just using their phones. Added to that the instant upload to whatever social media you want.

Talking of the small advancements, isn't there something about Nikon new D5600 and it just being a D5500 rebadged and actually not have anything new?
 
I think part of that is the real improvements made in Mobile phone camera tech, which means people are just using their phones. Added to that the instant upload to whatever social media you want.

Talking of the small advancements, isn't there something about Nikon new D5600 and it just being a D5500 rebadged and actually not have anything new?

This, so much this.

I think wireless connectivity can be improved dramatically still, to ensure an entirely fluid experience with transferring images etc. It makes life so much easier!

You have to wonder. Didn't Samsung try and fix this by cutting out the middle man? When are the major camera manufacturers going to either clean up the process or skip going via a phone entirely?
 
I think part of that is the real improvements made in Mobile phone camera tech, which means people are just using their phones. Added to that the instant upload to whatever social media you want.

Talking of the small advancements, isn't there something about Nikon new D5600 and it just being a D5500 rebadged and actually not have anything new?


That's not only that phone cameras are better but it is driven by how we consumer media.

From the looks of it the D5600 looks to address that problem with better connectivity, it might help sales...
 
I like going on photoshoots in photographically interesting places. Some shots, such buildings or landscapes, don't change much, so I have time to consider viewpoint, composition, etc. Some things are opportunistic grab shots that I'll miss if I'm not quick enough. I suspected that I didn't have enough lenses, that some shots would be missed, or inferior, because I wasn't carrying a long enough end of a wide enough lens. I wanted to discover which was the most urgent need in terms of getting more good keepers from an outing, wider or longer. So for a few outings I kept a lot of what I'd wanted to shoot and what had happened to discover what was the major problem.

Two reasons stood out from all the rest as major reasons for not having been able to get the shot I wanted. To my surprise neither of them was because wasn't carrying, or didn't possess, the appropriate lens. The major reason was not being able to get my act together in time. By the time I'd selected the appropriate settings the moment had passed. Sometimes it was obvious I wouldn't be able to get my act together in time and just let the moment pass without even trying. The two most important reasons for not being able to get my act together in time were firstly that the camera was bagged. Unzipping the bag and yanking it out would have taken too long. The second d most important reason was that although I had the camera out and ready, I had the wrong lens on it, and changing lenses would have taken too long.

I bought myself a shoulder sling camera strap that could comfortably carry my camera safely in difficult terrain, yet be very quickly deployable. I trained myself to reset the camera back to good general purpose settings after using an extreme setting for some special purpose. I bought a bag which made lens changing much quicker and easier and n difficult places. The result was a much improved rate of good keepers from my photographic walks. A much greater improvement in my keeper rate than had ever resulted from getting a new lens or upgrading my camera, and a lot cheaper.

My last camera body upgrade nearly doubled my image megapixel count. I expected that would make the biggest contribution to image quality and keeper rate. In fact it made the least important involvement. Most important were those new ancillary features of the camera which let me get settings, viewpoint, focus, etc. correct much more quickly.

Reviewers, and readers of reviews, like those qualities of a camera and lens which can be measured and which produce numbers. Obviously a camera which scores 53 will be a lot better than a camera which scores 45 on some measure. Really? That reminds me of the drunk searching around on his hands and knees under a street lamp. He was looking for his door key. No, he hadn't dropped it there, he'd dropped it in the dark place between the street lamps. But of course it was much easier to find things where there was more light.
 
Discrimination is required...What are 'advances'; and what are merely 'changes'. What is an 'improvement', what is an 'easement', and what is simply a 'gadget'?

It has taken twenty years for Digital SLR's to get to a point that they do, pretty much what conventional film cameras, which were little more than a light tight box with a lens in the front, 'could' do, and replace silver halide as the capture medium!!! In THAT they still haven't 'quite' matched the same exposure latitude or dynamic range, and what we have is significantly more 'clinical' in it's reproduction than film is....

Major 'advances' in digital in the last quarter century have mainly been in 'consumerism'; making a 'product' that is affordable and over-the-counter easy to use.

Sorry to be flippant, but the only 'advance'; of any note Digital has offered has been to alleviate the necessity for the user to fit the film, and hence the potential for them to get it 'wrong' and not get the leader onto the spool, and be firing away 'not' taking pictures! But cartridge cameras had already answered even that one!
'Instant' cameras existed before digital, A-N-D 1-hr photo-labs the opportunity to get your prints, potentially 'faster' than you can 'up-load' a memory card and get them up on a computer or TV screen!
"Wireles Connectivity"... this opens up the can of worms.... no longer is the camera a stand alone picture maker. Once upon a time you bought one took the film to boots and they handed you pictures from it.NOW, cameras don't make pictures, they make DATA; and you have to be 'in' this while wired digital world with all the other digital devices to get your pictures out of the box and see the ruddy things..... in THIS? hmmmm.... technology supposed to make things 'easier'! THIS is actually exemplifying the one area where Digital is 'anti-technology', and the job of getting pictures out of the camera actually made HARDER by the 'advance' that we should even be looking at such other advances to lessen how much harder it made it in the first place!!!!

'Image Quality' is very very mutable... but again, I'll stick my neck on the block, Digital has dumbed down to consumerism; the IQ they offer is merely an 'acceptable quality level'... which, for most, and certainly in the consumer/non enthusiast arena was probably achieved over a decade ago, when sensors, even for consumer compacts and phone-cams started beating 1Mpix, which STILL usually have to be down-sized for most web-display purposes! Astounding MPix levels achieved since then, are significantly 'redundant' for most consumer purposes, and even a lot of professional... WHICH, it would seem has co-incidentally 'dumbed down' the AQL for professional reproduction, to match digital delivery via web, rather than paper media!)

As an area they 'can' offer 'improvement', it's one I think they only WILL offer if it's selling more consumer cameras.. on the bigger numbers.. and these add more to the product price than they do the manufacturing cost.... so I expect it WILL still keep creeping up... BUT I don't see it as a significant 'improvement', it's an advance, but not a particularly useful one for most practical purposes..

Automation in digital? 'Electronic' Automatic Exposure has been around my entire life time! Its been in the shops in 'consumer' cameras, my entire life time! Silicon revolution of consumer electronics have seen that evolve from 'simple' center weighted average metering schemes to hugely complicated 'multi-spot meter' algorithms to offer 'evaluative' metering methods.. certainly an advance as far as the electronics and computer programming goes.... mutable whether its a 'useful' advance though... especially when a large part of such sophisticated metering is begged by how much more critical metering is with a sensor that lacks the response range and latitude..... again, more technology being chucked at the job to compensate for inadequacies the technology to start with!

Auto-Focus... again, pre-dates digital by a good margin, consumer electronics have done more to make it 'cheap' and get it into every camera, as they have to make it work much if any better; and again, complicated computing power used to drive it has and is still struggling to make it work quickly, and accurately and reliably, and do a 'better' job more often than people did without it.... certainly makes the job easier for the inept, BUT does it actually make for 'better' photo's very often? From any-one? THIS is what we get to. It may be better if you know no better, but if you do? Is it? I certainly don't think so, and revert to using manual or even manual lenses quite often, because the 'advanced' technology ISN'T actually helping me, but hindering!

What's left? What else does digital do? Electronic View Finders have been mentioned.... this probably IS one of the few things 'novel' to Digital; live electronic display of what the lens sees.. But err... What they do, optical ones don't or didn't? Crickey, I have cameras that don't even HAVE a view finder! I could still 'see' my subject and compose a picture with them!

EVF's are a mongrel, trying to do what an optical pentaprism 'reflex' view finder did, without the mirror... fair enough... BUT that is to remove that mechanical complexity from the product and make the camera cheaper, and possibly a little more compact NOT any more 'useful'.. It is NOT really an 'advance' giving us anything we didn't have before or doing it better. It IS consumer product design; making the product more marketable!

Tilt out or even remote pre-view screens? Sorry, these are definitely heading into almost useless 'gadget' territory; they are definitely push technology, things that can be done, and so are, and significantly only to add 'sales features' to the product; they are not exactly essential to the job, making it much easier, better or doing much if anything you couldn't do without one! But again, as long as such 'sales features' can be added and put more on the sticker price than they add to the manufacturing cost, they will carry on adding these 'features' and trying to convince us they are both 'advances' and 'improvements'.

So, rather glib appraisal.... the 'technology' chucked at DSLR cameras, or digital cameras general, I think has far from topped out; and they will continue 'pushing' technology to, then down, the market, and insisting that these are 'advances' and 'improvements'... and we REALLY must have them... they are SO much 'better'.....

BUT sorry, I remain 'glib'.. MOST of it is 'just' marketing, and they have in quarter of a century, done little or nothing with digital that couldn't be done before; the shift in capture medium and the proliferation of consumer electronics, has, significantly NOT provided any significant 'advance' in what might be achieved, either in taking a photo that couldn't have been taken, or in making any photo that could have been taken any 'better' in any way....

ALL the 'technology' has been doing is make the practice cheaper and more accessible, for more people to buy cameras and take 'average' photos with them... consumerist product evolution, NOT technical advancement..

With 'entry level' DSLR's being pushed into the sub £500 bracket almost five years ago, and now chasing the sub £300 bracket.. and those cameras, like the digi-compacts before them, that had incredibly short product lives, based on technical 'advance' making them redundant and their innate longevity engineered down to a service life as long as a new product introduction program, I see the market tending to saturation, 'entry' level models will gain features, loose box price and start loosing ever more in service life, in order to stimulate sales of upper range cameras, with even more sales features and only slightly better durability. Top end cameras. made for a very small market, will as they always have, beg a premium in the market by consumers who ether 'need' the longevity they don't get from lower market models, or who are prepared to pay the premium for the prestige, and will likely forgo a lot of the less essential 'sales features' for that durability or prestige, which is often enhanced by NOT having the mass market gadgets!

More pertinent question as far as Digital SLR's go is not whether they will evolve any 'further'.. which based on appraisal is a mute question to begin with, BUT whether they will survive extinction!

As the market saturates, and the bottom end demands the features and functions of the top end, but without the cost, and sales volume at the top end squeeze the economy of scale to 'add' more to the camera; and that Pentaprism and mirror that put the 'Reflex' into single lens cameras... are the major mechanical maledy to making the camera smaller and cheaper and simpler... WILL EVF's become ever more the norm, and SLR's become 'extinct'?

It is ONLY legacy of 'consumerisation' of film photography, and 35mm film format making cameras small enough that a pentaprism mechanism was viable without making it so large and unwieldy or expensive to manufacture, AND that making interchangeable lens 'system' cameras that much more viable and affordable, that the architecture has carried through, MOSTLY as a consumer expectation of a 'serious' camera to 'Digital' SLR's that don't really 'need' that complexity to offer a 'through the lens' composition view-finder! They can use an electronic screen.

There's a certain argument over frame sizes; 35mm on which 'Full-Frame' digtal is based, was before digital critasised for being 'too small' for 'serious' photography; and lackig the DoF and perspective offered by longer lenses on larger formats.... a critasism that APS-C 'half frame' dgtal s similarly running into, let alone, MFT or micro systems.

In recent 'full-frame' digtal cameras, there is hint, that, that the demand for 'bigger better faster more' year o year product 'evolution' will see the full-frame market pushed, ot up... but down, into the range of middle end consumer DSLR's.. and that they are likely to loose their pentagrams in order to meet cost breaks and assert the convention, which is likely to be pushed back UP that sector of the market as it's accepted.

BUT overall trend, is likely to follow the same as it has for quarter of a century, significantly not offering us anything particularly 'better' i any partularly practical way... just 'cheaper' or more precisely, more 'profitable' to the maker!
 
Cameras will continue to improve - though how relevant the improvements are will depend on the individual

Over time higher and higher ISO settings will be available (with acceptable noise levels).
AF tracking and sensitivity will improve (and the coverage of the AF points across the sensor increase - the new Sony A99II, for example, covers almost the entire sensor (albeit a DSLT rather than DSLR)
Improved Weather sealing
Battery life increases
Video capabilities (4k and beyond)
Dynamic Range.
etc.
 
Talking of the small advancements, isn't there something about Nikon new D5600 and it just being a D5500 rebadged and actually not have anything new?
It's actually a downgrade ... it's got Snapbridge!
 
Sorry to be flippant, but the only 'advance'; of any note Digital has offered has been to alleviate the necessity for the user to fit the film, and hence the potential for them to get it 'wrong' and not get the leader onto the spool, and be firing away 'not' taking pictures! But cartridge cameras had already answered even that one!

Maybe not flippant but how about just wrong?

How about the ability to change ISO between shots? Think back to the days of film, this is massive. How about the ability to get decent quality at ISO 100 or 25,600? Second to second, shot to shot?

How about the ability to shoot more than xx shots without having to stop and reload and miss what happened when you were doing so? Remember taking boxes and boxes of film with you?

How about the ability to see the shot immediately after you've taken it and be able to evaluate it, reshoot if necessary and learn from the process? It's easier to learn from your these days, you don't need to note your settings in a book.

How about the ability to take a shot and within seconds or minutes (depending on how tech savvy you are and/or where you are) send it to just about anyone just about anywhere on the planet? My GF is at a mates wedding this weekend and I'm sat at home looking at the pictures she's just sent me.

Try any of that lot with film :D

PS.
And the rest of your post Mike, sorry but there's just so much there I disagree with :D
 
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.... Try any of that lot with film :D
If you want to see another advantage of digital photography over film: go and see the Wildlife Photographer Of The Year exhibition and compare the quality of the underwater photos with those which were winning prizes 10 years ago. It's like day and night. The reason, I'm sure, is that with digital cameras you're not limited to 36 exposures per dive.

(Yes Teflon-Mike, I know that bulk film backs were available, but really, how many photographers used them?)

Of course underwater photography is a bit niche. But this same ability to shoot for extended periods has also benefitted other genres - its just not so blatantly visible in the results.
 
I've not real all the posts so sorry if this has been mentioned already, but I think tech will change dramatically over the years and cameras will be as different as DSLRs are to box brownies. Organic sensors, metalenses etc etc will mean better IQ, smaller lighter, more tech etc etc. I think current tech has reached a plateau, but something new will come along and move it on in leaps and bounds. Whether the 'purists' will like it though is debateable ;)
 
There are a quite a few features that are common place on mirrorless cameras that haven't made it into DSLR main stream yet so even ignoring future ideas, there seems plenty of scope for improvement.

I realise that Pentax have brought a lot of these features onto their cameras but Nikon and Canon seem to be really lagging.

In body stabilisation
Pixel shift hi res mode (needs in body stabilisation first)
Raw histograms (is anybody doing this yet?!)
Decent live view functionality, just look at what Olympus do with live bulb mode and live composite, both great features.
Decent tilt screens (I realise this is marmite but when shooting landscapes, I'd love my D810 to have a Pentax K1 screen)

I'm sure there are many more and none of those are tomorrow's world stuff.
 
There are a quite a few features that are common place on mirrorless cameras that haven't made it into DSLR main stream yet so even ignoring future ideas, there seems plenty of scope for improvement.

I realise that Pentax have brought a lot of these features onto their cameras but Nikon and Canon seem to be really lagging.

In body stabilisation
Pixel shift hi res mode (needs in body stabilisation first)
Raw histograms (is anybody doing this yet?!)
Decent live view functionality, just look at what Olympus do with live bulb mode and live composite, both great features.
Decent tilt screens (I realise this is marmite but when shooting landscapes, I'd love my D810 to have a Pentax K1 screen)

I'm sure there are many more and none of those are tomorrow's world stuff.

Some have been around longer than you might think.

Sony has IBIS since their first DSLR (the A100, released in 2006) and kept it on all their A-Mount cameras since (they switched from DSLR to DSLT (fixed translucent mirror with EVF) with the A33 in 2010, but continued to use in body stabilisation).
Sony also had a superior Live View from the A300/A350 in 2008 (though I don't know how this compares to the Pentax version, it was certainly a step up from the Canon / Nikon implenetations)
The Sony A99 / A99II tilt screen is also one of the best
 
If you want to see another advantage of digital photography over film: go and see the Wildlife Photographer Of The Year exhibition and compare the quality of the underwater photos with those which were winning prizes 10 years ago. It's like day and night.

In that 'niche' I'm really not qualified to comment. But will anyway.. or at least query the suggestion and particularly the inference that that improvement is directly attributable to digital technology.

Underwater photography was not made possible by digital, it pre-exited. I wont argue that current under-water photos are probably of a far higher standard; but in that niche... how much of that improvement is directly and solely attributable to digital technology?

In the twenty years that digital cameras have been evolving to affordable high street products, so too has 'accessibility' and participation in so many 'leisure activities' people now have so much more to take photo's of. More people now, participate in all manner of leisure pursuits and more frequently than they did twenty five years ago? And take photos of it. My 'pursuit' is motorbikes. 25 years ago, I might have seen one or two others at a race meet or event taking photo;s, but not many. Now there are lots, AND more, half the rider's have 'action-cams' on their hats or handlebars! I suspect the same 'proliferation' is true in so many pursuits such as canoeing or mountain climbing or even extreme ironing!

And Scuba Diving is a relatively 'new' pursuit compared to so many. I seem to recall checking some safety statistics to compare the relative safety to motorcycling, and ISTR that the stats showed such a huge leap in accident rates in the last ten years, there was an addendum to explain that the pursuit had expanded by something like twenty times the number of people who participate, and that average hours participation, per person had also increased by more than double, so that while the actual number of 'accidents' had ramped enormously, per participant hour, it was actually 'about' the same..If that is so, then could forty times the number of under water man-hours alone not account for an awful lot more opportunities for 'better' photos, and hence the higher standard of those making exhibition?

Proliferation of water-proof enclosures on e-bay, and what seems to me to be incredibly low prices of them, compared to those offered twenty five years ago in the specialist magazines for, usually higher end film SLR's would also seem to me to be indicative not only of more people being under water for more hours and there being more opportunities for better photo's but more of those people actually having cameras to take them? And THEN, more still... 'other technology' that provides greater scope to exploit those opportunities, significantly, I'd suspect, artificial lighting?

I will confess I don't dive. I got as far as having my head shoved in a tank at Bovisand, quarter century ago, had a panic attack, and that was it! I was NOT being suited up to go in the water! But what I recall, and what I understand, is that visibility is usually pretty dire, and artificial lighting crucial to seeing anything, so I would imagine that high intensity, low consumption LED or HID lighting technology coupled with compact high capacity batteries, has probably done more to increase the opportunities to take more and better underwater photographs than any feature or function associated with Digital?

To wit, is it actually digital cameras and digital cameras alone, that has made these photo's possible or better?

How about the ability to change ISO between shots? Think back to the days of film, this is massive. How about the ability to get decent quality at ISO 100 or 25,600? Second to second, shot to shot?
Missing my point, this is something more people can do, do more easily and conveniently with digital, it's NOT something you 'couldn't do with film, Digital hasn't pushed the boundaries of what was possible into any new territory.

I don't need to think 'back' to the days of film or carrying 'boxes' of film about... I still do! Film ISN'T 'dead' quite yet!... but, in days past? Yes, I have rewound mid-roll to change film speed or type; or have swapped bodies for one loaded with a different film. Curiously DIDN'T need to do it very often! And shooting digital, I still don't! Yup, certainly easier if I want to... and having ISO 6400 available on a button certainly saves a trip to the shops, and a couple of boost settings above that, playing with my timings push-processing that film.....

But as said, it's not pushed the boundaries to do things that just could NOT be done before; it has JUST made them easier to do and for more people to do them, making cameras cheaper and easier to use and a 'consumer friendly' mass market product.

How about the ability to shoot more than xx shots without having to stop and reload and miss what happened when you were doing so?
As Stewart pointed out, there were always bulk film backs that took stock movie cans of 30m, or around 750 frames! True not many people used them, but that potential was there, it has not been made possible by Digital, just more available and more common.

Meanwhile, you still have to swap a memory card in a digital camera when it's full, or how many shots would you miss trying to clear down the duffers on the card on the preview screen?

Sure, I only get, 36 frames to a roll of 35mm.. but got pretty 'practiced' and deft at changing them; and usually had plenty of spares in the bag, and could pick up another if needed at any petrol station or convenience store... what's odds, these days, of finding one that stocks the 'right' memory card, and I never had my winder equipped film cameras ever locked up waiting a buffer over-run, making me 'miss a shot', either!

This is not something made possible by digital, nor improved in quality by digital. I can take just as many photo's on a digital camera as I can on a film camera, and how many I can fit on a memory card or roll of film makes not one jot of difference to how good they are likely to be!

How about the ability to see the shot immediately after you've taken it

Lands Polaroid... been about since the mid 1940's. This is not 'new'. It is not something that digital has made possible that wasn't before!

It's easier

Precisely... its 'easier', it s NOT achieving what was previously 'impossible' or even impractical! It is NOT an 'advance' it is a 'easement'.

How about the ability to take a shot and within seconds or minutes (depending on how tech savvy you are and/or where you are) send it to just about anyone just about anywhere on the planet?

So, before 'digital' came along no-one ever sent photographs by conventional mail? Pictures could't be distributed and published globally? I believe that photographs were being transmitted by telegraph routinely as early as the 1920's! Photos of world events, leading up to the second world war, were being transmitted via the telegraph network, and appearing within 24 hours in the daily papers!

Sorry, again, this is NOT something that has been made 'possible' by digital that wasn't before. It has certainly made it 'easier' and possibly faster and available to the man in the street, BUT, it's not a feature of 'the camera', but the infrastructure, and significantly mobile telephone network, and again, evidence of 'consumerism' making these things available and easier NOT making them simply 'possible' or 'better'

And THAT is the point.Film technology had over a century and a half of evolution before digital came along. In that time the 'technology' had evolved enormously, and the practice of making photographic pictures, became an accepted norm, in which the trend towards consumerism, and not particularly advancing the state of the art, but bringing it to to a wider market, had been the main 'impetus'for most of the century, from the first 'consumer' box brownie in the 1890's!

The last notable 'advance', making possible something that previously wasn't was probably color photography! But even that, which didn't really filter down to the 'enthusiast' market until the 1940's when 'subtraction' one shot emulsions pioneered for the movie industry were used in or offered for stills cameras, or the 'consumer' market in the 1970's when small format cartridge cameras offered it over the counter, BUT additive colour processes had been being used since the 1870's, in wet-plate cameras before even celluloid 'film' and commercial film manufacture and processing alleviated the actual photographer of the 'chore' of messing with chemistry!

For SURE digital has made a lot of things a heck of a lot more "convenient", and an awful lot more accessible AND cheaper. Consumer electronics has hugely increased the number of 'easements' that can be crammed into a camera at any particular cost break. AND whilst I still shoot film.. The electric picture maker has supplanted the winder equipped, auto-exposure SLR's in the gadget bag FOR that 'convenience'.. But THAT is ALL digital is significantly offering! It s NOT offering me anything to take pictures that I couldn't with conventional cameras, nor is it offering any improvement in those pictures I can take, and YET an awful lot of the 'convenience' digital is providing, is not actually from the camera or the camera technology, BUT convergence of electronic technologies, and the 'digital infrastructure' ..

Its certainly a darn site more convenient to store, and review my pictures in a digital archive on a computer, than it is trawl through binders of negatives, possibly with accompanying contact strips.. BUT even THAT isn't something that has been 'made possible' by Digital cameras! It was made possible by computers! And I have been using THAT convenience since 1996 when I bought a 100Mb 'Zip' drive that could store more than one picture per disc, digitized from film! And yeah, darn site easier to e-mail a photo to my mother than pop a print the post! But still, it's not something 'new', its something different, AND it relies not just on me having a camera to take a picture, but a computer to e-mail it, AND my mother to have one to receive it!

For the last quarter century, Digital Photography has NOT been trying to further the realms of photographic possibility, but, replicate that possibility that had for a century already been possible, and offer it in a more convenient consumer friendly 'package'. And very very little of what is even 'easier' with digital, IS actually made easier by 'the camera' but digitalization AND consumerism, and the entire 'wired world' it all plugs into and depends on.

Like I said, its a matter of discriminating between 'advances' which genuinely make something previously not, actually possible, and 'Easements' which make what is already possible, less onerous to achieve, 'Changes' which are neither advances or easements, but simply different ways of achieving the same thing, and 'gadgets' which don't actually make anything possible, or easier, or better.. but often convince people they do!

'Progress' in digital, great as they it be, has significantly not expanded the boundaries of photographic possibility or excellence... the medium has merely made the practice more convenient, more accessible and more affordable to more people. That does not mean that its all been a waste of time, and film is still better, BUT, the changes, and the easements are NOT really 'advances' to the state of the art, they ARE easements and changes! And we should be more discriminatory in recognizing this and NOT buying the consumerist line that newer must be more 'advanced' and that that inherently means 'better'!

Better photographers take better pictures, not better cameras... but even if you ignore that, more sophisticated, more technologically evolved cameras AREN'T automatically 'better' cameras! Whether they are digital or not!
 
No, the improvements in dynamic range, sensitivity and noise reduction are clear advancements. They allow pictures to be taken at higher shutter speeds or in lower light than was previously possible without artificial lighting. These are not 'easements'.
 
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IMO, CMOS sensor technology pretty well peaked about 10yrs ago... there have been some notable gains in specific areas w/ tradeoffs in others, but nothing major. I don't think we will see anything really significant until there is a shift to some form of new technology.
I actually have patent pending on a sensor design using a stack of transparent photodiodes (i.e. graphene) separated by dichroic filters for true spectral separation with minimal loss of light (losses can be mathematically calculated/restored)... but it is a "theoretical design" and has some issues. I.e. "transparent" also means it's not very reactive, and it's a complex design (depending upon how much spectral separation is desired).

The real question is if it's even worth pursuing such possible advancements... it amazes me how many people use 24-50MP DSLR's and use them to do nothing more than hang 1024x pics online. And apparently the trend is moving towards consuming media on smaller devices (i.e. phones/tablets instead of TV's). What we have is already more than enough for that. I think the big advances will be made elsewhere, VR imaging/3D video/etc. Pictures are just too "analogue" and over saturated.
 
Missing my point, this is something more people can do, do more easily and conveniently with digital, it's NOT something you 'couldn't do with film, Digital hasn't pushed the boundaries of what was possible into any new territory.

I don't need to think 'back' to the days of film or carrying 'boxes' of film about... I still do! Film ISN'T 'dead' quite yet!... but, in days past? Yes, I have rewound mid-roll to change film speed or type; or have swapped bodies for one loaded with a different film. Curiously DIDN'T need to do it very often! And shooting digital, I still don't! Yup, certainly easier if I want to... and having ISO 6400 available on a button certainly saves a trip to the shops, and a couple of boost settings above that, playing with my timings push-processing that film.....

But as said, it's not pushed the boundaries to do things that just could NOT be done before; it has JUST made them easier to do and for more people to do them, making cameras cheaper and easier to use and a 'consumer friendly' mass market product.

I didn't miss your point Mike, what you said was...

the only 'advance'; of any note Digital has offered has been to alleviate the necessity for the user to fit the film, and hence the potential for them to get it 'wrong' and not get the leader onto the spool, and be firing away 'not' taking pictures! But cartridge cameras had already answered even that one!

That is IMO rubbish. And let me be clear, by that's rubbish I mean IMO your point about the "only" advance is rubbish. Maybe you don't use or see the advantages but if that's the case I'd hazard a guess that you're in a tiny minority.

As Stewart pointed out, there were always bulk film backs that took stock movie cans of 30m, or around 750 frames! True not many people used them, but that potential was there, it has not been made possible by Digital, just more available and more common.

Meanwhile, you still have to swap a memory card in a digital camera when it's full, or how many shots would you miss trying to clear down the duffers on the card on the preview screen?

Sure, I only get, 36 frames to a roll of 35mm.. but got pretty 'practiced' and deft at changing them; and usually had plenty of spares in the bag, and could pick up another if needed at any petrol station or convenience store... what's odds, these days, of finding one that stocks the 'right' memory card, and I never had my winder equipped film cameras ever locked up waiting a buffer over-run, making me 'miss a shot', either!

This is not something made possible by digital, nor improved in quality by digital. I can take just as many photo's on a digital camera as I can on a film camera, and how many I can fit on a memory card or roll of film makes not one jot of difference to how good they are likely to be!

If you think changing film every xx shots is comparable or more convenient than changing a memory card with digital you're on another planet. I've never ever had to change memory cards in the field, ever. Not once. Never. And yes I'm old enough to have shot with film and I did so for decades.

You want to challenge me to a shoot out? You change your 35mm film and I'll change my memory card and the loser has to eat his shorts? I'll go for that :D

My point had nothing to do with the quality of the pictures people take although I would argue that digital has quality wise surpassed anything I got from 35mm film and lets not forget that people took crap pictures with film too.

My own keeper rate with digital has never been higher and is higher than I got with film and I bet the same is true for many people who grew up with film and moved to digital.

Lands Polaroid... been about since the mid 1940's. This is not 'new'. It is not something that digital has made possible that wasn't before!

My God. Are you serious? If you are show me a Polaroid that can show me a picture as quickly as my digital cameras can and match the quality.

Precisely... its 'easier', it s NOT achieving what was previously 'impossible' or even impractical! It is NOT an 'advance' it is a 'easement'.

Mike, in the old days in an effort to learn people used to take notes and then match them up (or try to) to the prints when they came back. It is undeniably much easier to learn about exposure and other things when using digital because everything is there right in front of you... the shutter speed, the aperture... everything and just maybe it'll help.

It's a bit like comparing a type writer to a computer running a word processor. Yes, the type writer will get you there but it wont help you learn anything whilst a computer will get you a better end result (no ribbon smudges, no misaligned letters etc) and you can learn spelling and punctuation as you go.

Digital cameras make things easier. If you don't see that as an advancement I assume you live in a cave rather than a house, you wear animal skins instead of manufactured clothes and you send your forum posts in by carrier pidgeon or bison or something.

So, before 'digital' came along no-one ever sent photographs by conventional mail? Pictures could't be distributed and published globally? I believe that photographs were being transmitted by telegraph routinely as early as the 1920's! Photos of world events, leading up to the second world war, were being transmitted via the telegraph network, and appearing within 24 hours in the daily papers!

Sorry, again, this is NOT something that has been made 'possible' by digital that wasn't before. It has certainly made it 'easier' and possibly faster and available to the man in the street, BUT, it's not a feature of 'the camera', but the infrastructure, and significantly mobile telephone network, and again, evidence of 'consumerism' making these things available and easier NOT making them simply 'possible' or 'better'

And THAT is the point.Film technology had over a century and a half of evolution before digital came along. In that time the 'technology' had evolved enormously, and the practice of making photographic pictures, became an accepted norm, in which the trend towards consumerism, and not particularly advancing the state of the art, but bringing it to to a wider market, had been the main 'impetus'for most of the century, from the first 'consumer' box brownie in the 1890's!

The last notable 'advance', making possible something that previously wasn't was probably color photography! But even that, which didn't really filter down to the 'enthusiast' market until the 1940's when 'subtraction' one shot emulsions pioneered for the movie industry were used in or offered for stills cameras, or the 'consumer' market in the 1970's when small format cartridge cameras offered it over the counter, BUT additive colour processes had been being used since the 1870's, in wet-plate cameras before even celluloid 'film' and commercial film manufacture and processing alleviated the actual photographer of the 'chore' of messing with chemistry!

For SURE digital has made a lot of things a heck of a lot more "convenient", and an awful lot more accessible AND cheaper. Consumer electronics has hugely increased the number of 'easements' that can be crammed into a camera at any particular cost break. AND whilst I still shoot film.. The electric picture maker has supplanted the winder equipped, auto-exposure SLR's in the gadget bag FOR that 'convenience'.. But THAT is ALL digital is significantly offering! It s NOT offering me anything to take pictures that I couldn't with conventional cameras, nor is it offering any improvement in those pictures I can take, and YET an awful lot of the 'convenience' digital is providing, is not actually from the camera or the camera technology, BUT convergence of electronic technologies, and the 'digital infrastructure' ..

Its certainly a darn site more convenient to store, and review my pictures in a digital archive on a computer, than it is trawl through binders of negatives, possibly with accompanying contact strips.. BUT even THAT isn't something that has been 'made possible' by Digital cameras! It was made possible by computers! And I have been using THAT convenience since 1996 when I bought a 100Mb 'Zip' drive that could store more than one picture per disc, digitized from film! And yeah, darn site easier to e-mail a photo to my mother than pop a print the post! But still, it's not something 'new', its something different, AND it relies not just on me having a camera to take a picture, but a computer to e-mail it, AND my mother to have one to receive it!

For the last quarter century, Digital Photography has NOT been trying to further the realms of photographic possibility, but, replicate that possibility that had for a century already been possible, and offer it in a more convenient consumer friendly 'package'. And very very little of what is even 'easier' with digital, IS actually made easier by 'the camera' but digitalization AND consumerism, and the entire 'wired world' it all plugs into and depends on.

Like I said, its a matter of discriminating between 'advances' which genuinely make something previously not, actually possible, and 'Easements' which make what is already possible, less onerous to achieve, 'Changes' which are neither advances or easements, but simply different ways of achieving the same thing, and 'gadgets' which don't actually make anything possible, or easier, or better.. but often convince people they do!

'Progress' in digital, great as they it be, has significantly not expanded the boundaries of photographic possibility or excellence... the medium has merely made the practice more convenient, more accessible and more affordable to more people. That does not mean that its all been a waste of time, and film is still better, BUT, the changes, and the easements are NOT really 'advances' to the state of the art, they ARE easements and changes! And we should be more discriminatory in recognizing this and NOT buying the consumerist line that newer must be more 'advanced' and that that inherently means 'better'!

Better photographers take better pictures, not better cameras... but even if you ignore that, more sophisticated, more technologically evolved cameras AREN'T automatically 'better' cameras! Whether they are digital or not!

Mike, you show me a postal service that'll put the pictures my GF's takes at her mates wedding in front of me as I lay in bed within 5 minutes of her taking them and I wont just eat my shorts I'll eat yours too.

One thing that me and GF do is share pictures with friends and family all over the world and we can all if we chose print them out and mount them on our walls or even cover a wall with multiple copies of the same picture and if you think all that is comparable to getting the bus into town, dropping your rolls of film off at Boots, getting the bus back into town a week later to pick them up and then posting multiple envelopes full of prints all over the world and waiting two or three weeks for them to get to the back of beyond in Thailand, Kazakhstan, Australia and the rest you've been sniffing something you shouldn't.

Better photographers take better pictures, not better cameras... but even if you ignore that, more sophisticated, more technologically evolved cameras AREN'T automatically 'better' cameras! Whether they are digital or not!

At the extremes better (better for the task at hand) digital cameras allow people to take pictures that couldn't have been taken before. At less extremes better digital cameras allow people to take better pictures. Away from the extremes digital cameras allow the masses to do it all... easier... and arguably but increasingly more certainly so... better. Look at the picture quality that's possible from the smartphone the average person has these days, it's waaaaaay better than the quality that the camera the average person had years ago gave and if you go back far enough the average person didn't have a camera with them or at home.

I'm going to say something I can't remember saying on this site before and if I get banned I get banned but here goes... Mike, no offence meant mate but in this thread at least IMO you've talked complete and utter drivel. An absolute avalanche of it.

If you like film, fine, fill your boots. There was a time when I revisited film and I admit that there's a charm and romance and feel to the process just like there is to using a typewriter rather than a computer but IMO digital has moved beyond anything that 35mm offered me and I see clear and real advantages and clear and real improvements. If you don't then please look harder if only so that you can appreciate what others see.
 
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IMO, CMOS sensor technology pretty well peaked about 10yrs ago... there have been some notable gains in specific areas w/ tradeoffs in others, but nothing major. I don't think we will see anything really significant until there is a shift to some form of new technology.
I actually have patent pending on a sensor design using a stack of transparent photodiodes (i.e. graphene) separated by dichroic filters for true spectral separation with minimal loss of light (losses can be mathematically calculated/restored)... but it is a "theoretical design" and has some issues. I.e. "transparent" also means it's not very reactive, and it's a complex design (depending upon how much spectral separation is desired).

The real question is if it's even worth pursuing such possible advancements... it amazes me how many people use 24-50MP DSLR's and use them to do nothing more than hang 1024x pics online. And apparently the trend is moving towards consuming media on smaller devices (i.e. phones/tablets instead of TV's). What we have is already more than enough for that. I think the big advances will be made elsewhere, VR imaging/3D video/etc. Pictures are just too "analogue" and over saturated.

Good luck with the patent... and if it all works out remember your starving friends on the forum :D

Just on 1024 pictures. I still manage on average a print a week but most of my pictures are zapped around the world 2000 pixel wide, sometimes at quality 12, sometimes at 10 (CS5) and no one has ever complained about the quality. I've walked into houses and seen pictures I've taken and sent off electronically printed, framed and wall mounted and at normal viewing distances and even quite close viewing they look fine. There are the odd few who flatter me by requesting a full sized image or even a print and I'm happy to supply both but I do have to say that for many people even a 2000 pixel wide image is good enough to print, frame and mount on the wall.

A while ago someone wanted a picture from their phone printing and framing and of course I was out of ink and we couldn't wait so we trundled off to ASDA and tried to use one of their machines but it kept saying that the image quality was too poor so the girl on the counter did if for us overriding the machine and the picture looked good. Even more so when it had been framed.

That little episode reinforced what I know but sometimes forget... I have a tendency to pixel peep and obsess but normal people just look at pictures. A lot of people have seen that framed picture and not one has mentioned any aspect of image quality and this is a picture that the machine at ASDA thought was too poor to print at the size we wanted :D
 
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Good luck with the patent... and if it all works out remember your starving friends on the forum :D
I doubt I'll get anywhere with it... I haven't been able to stir up any interest from the big companies. I have discussed it with Eric Fossum (the inventor of the current sensor technology) and he has simultaneously patented a design incorporating a portion of the idea (dichroic filtration) for IR/astro sensing/photography.
 
Some have been around longer than you might think.

Sony has IBIS since their first DSLR (the A100, released in 2006) and kept it on all their A-Mount cameras since (they switched from DSLR to DSLT (fixed translucent mirror with EVF) with the A33 in 2010, but continued to use in body stabilisation).
Sony also had a superior Live View from the A300/A350 in 2008 (though I don't know how this compares to the Pentax version, it was certainly a step up from the Canon / Nikon implenetations)
The Sony A99 / A99II tilt screen is also one of the best
Not sure if anyone else used it before... but in body stabilisation came in with Minolta's Dynax 7D which came before the Sony cameras of course...

Of course there are debates as to if in lens stabilisation isn't better...
 
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This, so much this.



You have to wonder. Didn't Samsung try and fix this by cutting out the middle man? When are the major camera manufacturers going to either clean up the process or skip going via a phone entirely?

True. Having a seamless system built in (like iCloud photos - no effort needed and it is automatically on everything in full res) would be incredibly useful and soon be taken for granted - just as we now text and make calls off our iPads and macbook. Surely that's is ierfection - when we take something for granted after adoption.
 
phase ones cameras have some nifty features

but really for us hardcore togs itll be more buttons and dials
canikon/pentax could do dual viewfinder, normal slr type, then evf type to the side

and more memory presets
 
oh and decent wifi and 4g inbuilt, so you can social media on the camera itself with no depenancy on a tablet or phone, or bluetooth etc, thats always tedious, and lunches batteries
 
I'd be happy with a waterproof camera that could be charged using something like a QI pad and had wireless (fast!) file transfer.
 
Gear-tech-wise, I'd say there' a lot of innovation to come. IQ-wise, I would say we've reached a peak, of sorts. Can't see much difference between the current new crop of higher end cameras, comparing end results only. I guess high ISO performance will continue to improve.
 
I'm not sure the pinnacle has been reached yet.

Has mirror-less really done something that revolutionary since it started? Ok they ditched the mirror and gave us EVF's which have only just become usable in low light in the last few years. Not speaking against mirror-less by the way, I happen to know the OP and the camera he uses.

I mean what can they put in any camera now other than better battery life (mirror-less) and improved connectivity.. not a whole lot.

The improvements in both DSLR and Mirror-less will be in sensor technology and AF. More resolution will come, lenses will get better to cope.. .DXO will continue to post s*** that does not matter in the end of it all. Take my main stills bodies for example 5D Mark II's, the new sensors of today (5Ds, 80D, 5D IV and others) run circles around it for dynamic range and what can be done to the files and they give more detail. That's where the improvements will continue. Personally I don't care that much about being able to push exposure that much with the work I do but I can see the use for other types of work.

The 5Ds gives better colour than the 5D II out of camera, more DR, similar ISO performance but can be taken ahead with NR because of the higher resolution and detail provided. That's pretty impressive given the resolution. The 5DIV does the same bar colour OOC (it's too cyan).

We will see video improve in IQ and AF also but few actually need 4K let alone 8k.

The only thing I can see being included in future cameras that may open some options for innovation is software or apps.. let's just hope you can't install snap chat on them because the world does not need a bunch of millennials posting 50mp snaps with stupid filters on.

One final point on this. Innovation aside the one thing that mirror-less is yet to do is provide a camera that has the build, toughness and battery life that a mid to high end DSLR can. Not saying they won't manage it but let me know when they take a mirror-less camera in to the jungle or war zone and it survive.
 
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