Will Canon even nick Nikon's good ideas?

JohnN

JohnN

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As a Canon user I hear about useful features only available in on Nikons and have a slight envy, a couple of features are (no doubt there are more):

  1. Setting a max ISO limit on auto
  2. Have the camera only take a picture when the subject comes into focus (used for sports etc)
Now I wish Canon would look at the features and implement them, but damn them they don't they just continue on oblivious to these great ideas, despite some being a relatively easy firmware option.

As it stands if I could go back in time I may have gone Nikon, but I'm too heavily invested now to swap.

As a side thought and thinking it may be just a case of the grass being greener and all that if you're Nikkon user are there any things Canon users have that you guys wish they would adopt?

PS: Not trolling, just venting and curious.
 
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JohnN said:
Hi,

As a Canon user I hear about useful features only available in on Nikkons and have a slight envy, a couple of features are (no doubt there are more):

  1. Setting a max ISO limit on auto
  2. Have the camera only take a picture when the subject comes into focus (used for sports etc)

Now I wish Canon would look at the features and implement them, but damn them they don't they just continue on oblivious to these great ideas, despite some being a relatively easy firmware option.

As it stands if I could go back in time I may have gone Nikkon, but I'm too heavily invested now to swap.

As a side thought and thinking it may be just a case of the grass being greener and all that if you're Nikkon user are there any things Canon users have that you guys wish they would adopt?

PS: Not trolling, just venting and curious.
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You can set the second one of your wishlist as a custom function on the 7d, i think...
 
Can you? Do you know where, I've looked high and low as that one would be great for getting my daughter in focus (without the need for servo)
 
JohnN said:
Can you? Do you know where, I've looked high and low as that one would be great for getting my daughter in focus (without the need for servo)
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Not got it on me at present but I am pretty sure its there. Hopefully someone else can point it out for you.
 
JohnN said:
As a Canon user I hear about useful features only available in on Nikons and have a slight envy, a couple of features are (no doubt there are more):

  1. Setting a max ISO limit on auto
  2. Have the camera only take a picture when the subject comes into focus (used for sports etc)
Now I wish Canon would look at the features and implement them, but damn them they don't they just continue on oblivious to these great ideas, despite some being a relatively easy firmware option.

As it stands if I could go back in time I may have gone Nikon, but I'm too heavily invested now to swap.

As a side thought and thinking it may be just a case of the grass being greener and all that if you're Nikkon user are there any things Canon users have that you guys wish they would adopt?

PS: Not trolling, just venting and curious.
Click to expand...

I can certainly set a max ISO on auto on my 60D so I'm pretty sure you can on your 7D (I'm assuming you don't mean full auto mode, never used that in my life!)

:rules: (<---- Have a look at the manual, I'm pretty sure its there)
 
But you can do all that manually.

I've never once used auto ISO, I've never really seen the point personally. Even on auto modes you can dictate what ISO to use. Ok it's not auto but you can make sure it doesn't try and push it too far...

I see your point in general though, ie, why dont they copy eachother? All other types of tech gets copied by the big manufacturers, why not cameras?! I'm sure there is some industrial espionage that goes on that we don't know about though.
 
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JohnN said:
As a Canon user I hear about useful features only available in on Nikons and have a slight envy, a couple of features are (no doubt there are more):

  1. Setting a max ISO limit on auto
  2. Have the camera only take a picture when the subject comes into focus (used for sports etc)
Now I wish Canon would look at the features and implement them, but damn them they don't they just continue on oblivious to these great ideas, despite some being a relatively easy firmware option.

As it stands if I could go back in time I may have gone Nikon, but I'm too heavily invested now to swap.

As a side thought and thinking it may be just a case of the grass being greener and all that if you're Nikkon user are there any things Canon users have that you guys wish they would adopt?

PS: Not trolling, just venting and curious.
Click to expand...

There should be a setting called 'when focus impossible' or something like that - don't have my camera here.
 
odd jim said:
But you can do all that manually.

I've never once used auto ISO, I've never really seen the point personally. Even on auto modes you can dictate what ISO to use. Ok it's not auto but you can make sure it doesn't try and push it too far...

I see your point in general though, ie, why dont they copy eachother? All other types of tech gets copied by the big manufacturers, why not cameras?! I'm sure there is some industrial espionage that goes on that we don't know about though.
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Well auto ISO can be very useful if you are shooting on manual mode and the light is changing - although I also like to be in control.
 
travellingcello said:
There should be a setting called 'when focus impossible' or something like that - don't have my camera here.
Click to expand...

There is something like that , but its about autofocus giving up - the thing Nikon have (and I wish I could recall what its called) is where they focus on a spot, hold down the shutter and when the target is in focus it takes the picture.

The advantage there being get the composition you want, know your target will be there soon, wait and then get the picture exactly how you want it.

On the ISO front I often use auto ISO (okay I know I'm rubbish!) and the 7D can do 1600 nicely but it gets a bit ropy after that, so a limiter would allow flexible shutter speed while ensuring the image doesn't look like its printed on sandpaper :)

Nice the 60D has it though, at least they are paying attention, even if they don;t choose to update their "old" ones
 
JohnN said:
There is something like that , but its about autofocus giving up - the thing Nikon have (and I wish I could recall what its called) is where they focus on a spot, hold down the shutter and when the target is in focus it takes the picture.

The advantage there being get the composition you want, know your target will be there soon, wait and then get the picture exactly how you want it.

On the ISO front I often use auto ISO (okay I know I'm rubbish!) and the 7D can do 1600 nicely but it gets a bit ropy after that, so a limiter would allow flexible shutter speed while ensuring the image doesn't look like its printed on sandpaper :)

Nice the 60D has it though, at least they are paying attention, even if they don;t choose to update their "old" ones
Click to expand...

I just looked it up, it seems the 7D doesn't have this setting..... that is really stupid. It can't take much of a firmware upgrade to change that.

About this Nikon autofocus system, I don't know how well it works but I can't imagine it works that well unless the camera is plugged into your brain as well - how would it know where to focus?

Anyway thats one of those features that you don't actually need - you have a 7D, why would you need to undermime its autofocus system by getting that? You might as well get a XXXD series!
 
Actually you've a really good point about how does it know where, having not used one I'm not sure.

I presume you'd set the focus to manual.

I know I could do that, set it to manual and wait for the beep in single shot, but I've given that a go and between the action of the extra half press of the shutterand my reflexes they ended up blury anyway :(
 
My daughters 550D has the auto ISO limit setting and think its excellent, wish my 40D had it, but wouldn't swap it for the three custom modes (which now seems to be down to just one on the 60D)

Both would be great, not so fussed about the in focus shooting only though
 
JohnN said:
As a Canon user I hear about useful features only available in on Nikons and have a slight envy
Click to expand...

Ahem, you may find Pentax are still the innovators...
 
travellingcello said:
...how would it know where to focus?

Anyway thats one of those features that you don't actually need -
Click to expand...

It uses the selected focus point, and it's very useful for insect photography and the like.

Set the focus distance, select focus point, move camera in or out with shutter button pressed and when it hits focus the shot's taken. Much better than using a button to instigate focus after framing the shot.

So there!:D
 
travellingcello said:
I just looked it up, it seems the 7D doesn't have this setting..... that is really stupid. It can't take much of a firmware upgrade to change that.
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The 5D2 is even worse. Put it on full manual and auto ISO and you get ISO 400 meaning M = FULLY MANUAL. Grr....
 
Well I'm not sure who put it on a DSLR first but every previous Pentax I have owned had both those options.

The second one is great for macro as well. Just focus lens for full magnification, press shutter and then move camera towards subject .. as it hits focus the camera bleeps and the shutter fires.
 
Canon offer both those features. The taking a picture when in focus has been on the 1-series for a long time and I regularly use auto ISO on my 7D and 1D with a max ISO set. I have my 7D to not go over ISO1600 and my 1DIV at 3200
 
I can't comment on the auto ISO thing as I never use it, but the only take a shot when in focus, is one of the first things I disable on my Nikons. I want to take a picture when I want to, not when my camera tells me it's ok to!
Seriously, I've no idea why you'd want this feature, if the AF is on, something somewhere is always going to be in focus, or am I missing something?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by photon

Ahem, you may find Pentax are still the innovators...
Really ? What did they invent ?

First instant return mirror
First TTL metering
First AF lenses
First Aperture Priority SLR
 
grumpybadger said:
Canon offer both those features. The taking a picture when in focus has been on the 1-series for a long time and I regularly use auto ISO on my 7D and 1D with a max ISO set. I have my 7D to not go over ISO1600 and my 1DIV at 3200
Click to expand...

How do you do that on the 7D?

Edit: beat me to it!

Mark, the AF is sounds useful for a composed shot or as mentioned before macro.
 
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On the 7D, the custom function I think people are interested is C.Fn III-2. It alters priority of focus vs. shutter release vs drive speed when in AI Servo mode. This is new on non-1 series cameras I think where previously the priority for AI servo was shutter release, regardless whether initial focus had been achieved. So a 40D would often get a whole series of OOF pictures if it never got the first in focus for example.
 
Ah, the focus thing appears to be called "Trap Focus"

I found an article on C.Fn III-2 - here - its tied to servo and by the sound of it best left on 0 :)
 
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One idea that I thought was quite good on Nikon's that seems to have inspired Canon (don't want to say copying ;) ) is being able to trigger slave flashes without a hotshoe mounted flash.
 
JohnN said:
Ah, the focus thing appears to be called "Trap Focus"

I found an article on C.Fn III-2 - here - its tied to servo and by the sound of it best left on 0 :)
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I'm not sure about this John. Trap Focus was a side benefit which came with the first AF cameras but I think it's best used in single shot mode as the shutter wont actually fire until the subject comes into focus and you get a focus confirmation light in the viewfinder at which point the shutter fires.

The lens needs to be set to manual focus. Try this yourself - set the camera up then hold down the shutter button and walk towards something till it comes into focus - you should get an instant shot as focus is achieved.
 
JohnN said:
As a side thought and thinking it may be just a case of the grass being greener and all that if you're Nikkon user are there any things Canon users have that you guys wish they would adopt?
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A couple of things that come to the mind of this Nikon user:

The 7D's ability to switch between different AF points/groups when going between portrait and landscape. That sounds so useful that I'm sure Nikon will put something similar in the D4 and D400. Moving the active AF point around all the time is a bit of a pain on my D300.

Also, I've read somewhere that in manual focus mode, the focus points in the viewfinder light up as they come into focus. (Perhaps only on 1-series cameras?) Much nicer than the Nikon behaviour, which is just to go into single-point mode.

Of course I could make a big long list of things I DON'T like about Canons, but in the interests of forum harmony it's probably best that I don't :D
 
Silent Bob said:
.

Also, I've read somewhere that in manual focus mode, the focus points in the viewfinder light up as they come into focus. (Perhaps only on 1-series cameras?) Much nicer than the Nikon behaviour, which is just to go into single-point mode.

D
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It's true - on the 7D the active AF point lights up briefly as focus is achieved. Even nicer though - the whole viewfinder briefly flashes red. Only works in single shot mode or using manual focus. - not in servo obviously.

As far as I 'm aware, the viewfinder flashing red is peculiar to the 7D and it's brand new AF system, but certainly on the 1DMK2n I had, the active AF point would light up on achieving focus and I would imagine still does on later 1 Series bodies.
 
CT said:
I'm not sure about this John. Trap Focus was a side benefit which came with the first AF cameras but I think it's best used in single shot mode as the shutter wont actually fire until the subject comes into focus and you get a focus confirmation light in the viewfinder at which point the shutter fires.
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I agree. With the Nikon system focus trapping still appears to be very much a side effect of how the Nikon cameras work, rather than an actual deliberate design feature. It's only certain Canon models that appear to officially support trap focus operation.
 
CT said:
Try this yourself - set the camera up then hold down the shutter button and walk towards something till it comes into focus - you should get an instant shot as focus is achieved.
Click to expand...

I just tried this and yep it does beep/flash but doesn't auto fire and if I fully press the shutter it takes the image irrespective of whether focus is achieved - is there a setting I'm missing?

Silent Bob said:
The 7D's ability to switch between different AF points/groups when going between portrait and landscape. That sounds so useful that I'm sure Nikon will put something similar in the D4 and D400. Moving the active AF point around all the time is a bit of a pain on my D300.
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Yep that is pretty handy and occasionally annoying, but switching AF point is very quick anyway.

Back on my original whine, in some ways its anoying it isn't an option, code wise its easy as the focus confration is already in place...

IF Focus Trigger option = true then
IF Focus = True AND Shutter Pressed = True THEN Take Photo
ELSE
IF Shutter Pressed = True THEN Take Photo
END IF

The ISO limiter is pretty much the same
 
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CT said:
It's true - on the 7D the active AF point lights up briefly as focus is achieved. Even nicer though - the whole viewfinder briefly flashes red. Only works in single shot mode or using manual focus. - not in servo obviously.
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That's a nice touch, but I was led to believe that all the focus points were active. Say you're taking a picture of someone holding an object to the camera at arm's length, with a wall some way behind them. Manually focus on the wall, and the focus points which cover the wall illuminate. Focus on the subject's face, and the points which cover the face illuminate. And so on. At any time the illuminated focus points show which parts of the frame are in focus.
 
Silent Bob said:
That's a nice touch, but I was led to believe that all the focus points were active. Say you're taking a picture of someone holding an object to the camera at arm's length, with a wall some way behind them. Manually focus on the wall, and the focus points which cover the wall illuminate. Focus on the subject's face, and the points which cover the face illuminate. And so on. At any time the illuminated focus points show which parts of the frame are in focus.
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Ah gotcha. That's correct if you have all the focus points enabled. The 7D has more focus modes than you can shake a stick at though, and you can actually select smaller clusters of these AF points and move them around the screen - centre/ top/'bottom/ left /right and only the the ones in focus light up - just as you describe.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am :D),but doesn't the AI Servo release priority or focus priority custom setting change this?

I think it's C.fn III number 2.
 
travellingcello said:
Well auto ISO can be very useful if you are shooting on manual mode and the light is changing - although I also like to be in control.
Click to expand...

I use that frequently, leave my setting on M, choose ss and aperture and leave ISO on AUTO. But main problem is if I want to compensate for exposure quickly then I cannot do it.
Again I hear that you can do that with Nikon.
I have used Pentax and can be done also, and its quite handy.

I know this is going to raise debates as it always brings discussions on the table, things like "then that's not exactly shooting manual is it?"
My point is if Nikon for example does then surely its something that is useful. Then its not just me banging my head on something that only I find it handy ;). I definitely miss it BIG time
 
travellingcello said:
I just looked it up, it seems the 7D doesn't have this setting..... that is really stupid. It can't take much of a firmware upgrade to change that.

About this Nikon autofocus system, I don't know how well it works but I can't imagine it works that well unless the camera is plugged into your brain as well - how would it know where to focus?

Anyway thats one of those features that you don't actually need - you have a 7D, why would you need to undermime its autofocus system by getting that? You might as well get a XXXD series!
Click to expand...

You missed the point there.
Here is a scenario. A bird you want to shoot in flight and you know where it usually perches. You prefocus on the spot and release the shutter with your finger and wait. It won't take the shot until there is a subject in focus
 
Have we an answer yet to how you limit the ISO on a 7D as someone suggested could be done, believe a limit of 1600 was used as an example

Had a quick trawl and haven't seen any confirmation
 
grumpybadger said:
Canon offer both those features. The taking a picture when in focus has been on the 1-series for a long time and I regularly use auto ISO on my 7D and 1D with a max ISO set. I have my 7D to not go over ISO1600 and my 1DIV at 3200
Click to expand...

Why cant I do that on my 7D? The pre-focusing and then the shutter releasing only when the subject is in focus?
 
Auto ISO not actually being Auto at all in manual mode on the 5d2 has always vexed me, my shooting is predominately in dark clubs and I always use manual aperture and shutter control to ensure I can capture the performers how I want them. A little auto leeway on the iso would make things a tad easier for me.
 
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