Wireless trigger for Lencarta 200's

amumonamission

amumonamission

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Sarah
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Hiya everyone,

Wondering if I could get some advice please.

I have bought two of these flash triggers in the last 9 months and both have gone wrong. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003ARRAA8/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Clearly you get what you pay for so wondering if anyone can recommend something thats better quality and that will work well with my Canon 5diii and 7d with my Lencarta smartflash 200's (NOT the newer smartflash 2 200)

Thanks in advance
 
I have been using Ojecoco H430 Triggers for my Lencarta Flash Heads (also Mk1 200w/s), bought from Cotswold Photo via Ebay. Very reliable, still going strong and powered by standard AAA batteries, either Nikon or Canon pass through versions. I don't think they would stand up to heavy use but for light amateur work they are fine, I've used mine inside and outdoors on speedlights in the dry only. A bit too easy to change channels by mistake but I soon learnt to avoid this. Ojecoco seems to be no longer available and there are now no triggers on the Cotswold website. However, Commlite G430 Triggers look identical, Lighting Rumours says they are and they are reviewed here:
http://www.lightingrumours.com/commlite-comtrig-g430-flash-trigger-review-2392#.VC7-5BZtw2A
The Commlites are available on Amazon here although I note there has been no reviews so far:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Channels-Wi...1412365878&sr=8-1&keywords=flash+trigger+g430
 
HarveyM said:
I have been using Ojecoco H430 Triggers for my Lencarta Flash Heads (also Mk1 200w/s), bought from Cotswold Photo via Ebay. Very reliable, still going strong and powered by standard AAA batteries, either Nikon or Canon pass through versions. I don't think they would stand up to heavy use but for light amateur work they are fine, I've used mine inside and outdoors on speedlights in the dry only. A bit too easy to change channels by mistake but I soon learnt to avoid this. Ojecoco seems to be no longer available and there are now no triggers on the Cotswold website. However, Commlite G430 Triggers look identical, Lighting Rumours says they are and they are reviewed here:
http://www.lightingrumours.com/commlite-comtrig-g430-flash-trigger-review-2392#.VC7-5BZtw2A
The Commlites are available on Amazon here although I note there has been no reviews so far:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Channels-Wireless-Grouping-Pass-through-Fujifilm/dp/B00HJOKV72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412365878&sr=8-1&keywords=flash trigger g430
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Thanks, I will be using it for on average of 6 shoots per week, sometimes more, sometimes less - not sure if that would count at light use, might be good to have as a spare though.
 
amumonamission said:
I have bought two of these flash triggers in the last 9 months and both have gone wrong. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003ARRAA8/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Clearly you get what you pay...
Click to expand...

Yn602s are superb. The first of the 2.4GHz triggers and they have a well deserved excellent reputation and very long range. I have probably a dozen 602 receivers, and all are still working perfectly after very heavy use.

The trasnmitters / receivers can (very rarely) stop working for no apparent reason. They trick is to remove the batteries for five minutes and put them back in and they spring back to life.

622s are also excellent (I have quite a few of these too), but will provide little benefit when dumb triggering over the 602s. Maybe the IR focus assist.
 
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Sir SR said:
Brilliant for me in my nikon d800. Get the commander unit that sits in the hotshoe too.

Can't fault it for the money!
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Careful.

Canon and Nikon units are different. If you mean the 622tx dedicated trasmitter with lcd for Canon, then fine. 'Commander' unit is more of a Nikon term.
 
Kris said:
Careful.

Canon and Nikon units are different. If you mean the 622tx dedicated trasmitter with lcd for Canon, then fine. 'Commander' unit is more of a Nikon term.
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I didn't know that they made more than one commander unit for the 622?
 
???

The canon based 622s are available as
1. transceivers (sku 622c) with no inbuilt LCD and utilise the canon camera back LCD controls (Nikon don't offer this system) and
2. Transmitters only
(SKU 622tx-c) which do have an inbuilt LCD so you don't have to delve into the flash controls on the back of the camera.
 
Kris said:
Yn602s are superb. The first of the 2.4GHz triggers and they have a well deserved excellent reputation and very long range. I have probably a dozen 602 receivers, and all are still working perfectly after very heavy use.

The trasnmitters / receivers can (very rarely) stop working for no apparent reason. They trick is to remove the batteries for five minutes and put them back in and they spring back to life.

622s are also excellent (I have quite a few of these too), but will provide little benefit when dumb triggering over the 602s. Maybe the IR focus assist.
Click to expand...

I really like the 602 too but can't trust them after having 2 go wrong on me. The first one failed to sync at all and the second only fires the flash if the transmitted is right next to the receiver!
 
OK great, thanks.

Just to update - I purchased the commlites one the Harvey M recommend in the first post because I needed something for today and Amazon could have it hear on Sunday. I used the same settings I usually use ISO 100, 1/160 and f2.8, the first image looks under exposed but if I take another straight away it's fine! I am guessing that it's a shutter sync incompatibility issue so it's causing a shadow on the first image, not sure why the second image is perfect though. I got by today by taking two shots of every pose but was a pain. I like shooting at 1/160 as I find this works well for fast moving children (I usually turn the ISO up to 200 and shoot at f7.1 for children and families, the shoot today was a newborn) So, so far unless I am doing something wrong then I'm not impressed by the Commlites one :-/
 
amumonamission said:
OK great, thanks.

Just to update - I purchased the commlites one the Harvey M recommend in the first post because I needed something for today and Amazon could have it hear on Sunday.
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I don't know them, but they seem like decent triggers. You might even get away with 1/200sec x-sync with them, but there's no point with studio work. 1/160sec should be fine.

I used the same settings I usually use ISO 100, 1/160 and f2.8, the first image looks under exposed but if I take another straight away it's fine! I am guessing that it's a shutter sync incompatibility issue so it's causing a shadow on the first image, not sure why the second image is perfect though. I got by today by taking two shots of every pose but was a pain. I like shooting at 1/160 as I find this works well for fast moving children (I usually turn the ISO up to 200 and shoot at f7.1 for children and families, the shoot today was a newborn) So, so far unless I am doing something wrong then I'm not impressed by the Commlites one :-/
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Should not happen. Doesn't make sense at all.

Also, with flash, it's the flash duration that freezes movement, not the shutter speed.
 
HoppyUK said:
I don't know them, but they seem like decent triggers. You might even get away with 1/200sec x-sync with them, but there's no point with studio work. 1/160sec should be fine.



Should not happen. Doesn't make sense at all.

Also, with flash, it's the flash duration that freezes movement, not the shutter speed.
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Hmm I have no idea what is going on then! I even tried it with my other flash head and the same happens ??
 
amumonamission said:
Hmm I have no idea what is going on then! I even tried it with my other flash head and the same happens ??
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This is very strange Sarah. There is no way the flash can fire at anything other than the set output, no matter what. V strange. You're not on auto-ISO? Have you tired another lens (possible sticky aperture trouble)?

Suggest double-check everything - everything fully manual. Try it with the sync lead that came with the flash head to eliminate the triggers.
 
I'm sorry to hear you're having an issue. The reason I choose the Ojecoco/Commlites was because they were recommended on one of the Strobist Sites and because of their ability to sync at very high speed. I use them on my Nikons, especially when using my D40. This camera has an electronic shutter and I can sync all the way up to 1/2000 sec on this camera. I have not used them on my Canon 5D2 to avoid any risk of pin out shorting. However, I have found a different issue when I shoot at studios using their single pin triggers on my Canon at 1/200 sec, ending up with shutter curtain obscuration caused I think by transmitter latency. The first picture is at 1/200 and the second at 1/125. So this may be a Canon issue but it shouldn't matter, the exposure is actually of a very short duration flash unless you have a lot of ambient light in there. This can be tested by shooting one frame with the trigger and the next without, if the second is all black then there is no problem using the slower speed. The last picture is me just experimenting to see what the trigger could do, the picture has no photographic merit!. This is at 1/2000 sec with a red gel on a Nissin 360TW which is sat on the lap top using the Nikon D40.
View attachment 22072 View attachment 22073 View attachment 22077
 
HoppyUK said:
This is very strange Sarah. There is no way the flash can fire at anything other than the set output, no matter what. V strange. You're not on auto-ISO? Have you tired another lens (possible sticky aperture trouble)?

Suggest double-check everything - everything fully manual. Try it with the sync lead that came with the flash head to eliminate the triggers.
Click to expand...

No not on auto, I had it set to 100 today. Haven't tried another lens so will give that a go and see what happens. Will also try the lead as well. Don't you find those flash leads annoying though? Mine keeps falling out of the socket all the time!
 
HarveyM said:
I'm sorry to hear you're having an issue. The reason I choose the Ojecoco/Commlites was because they were recommended on one of the Strobist Sites and because of their ability to sync at very high speed. I use them on my Nikons, especially when using my D40. This camera has an electronic shutter and I can sync all the way up to 1/2000 sec on this camera. I have not used them on my Canon 5D2 to avoid any risk of pin out shorting. However, I have found a different issue when I shoot at studios using their single pin triggers on my Canon at 1/200 sec, ending up with shutter curtain obscuration caused I think by transmitter latency. The first picture is at 1/200 and the second at 1/125. So this may be a Canon issue but it shouldn't matter, the exposure is actually of a very short duration flash unless you have a lot of ambient light in there. This can be tested by shooting one frame with the trigger and the next without, if the second is all black then there is no problem using the slower speed. The last picture is me just experimenting to see what the trigger could do, the picture has no photographic merit!. This is at 1/2000 sec with a red gel on a Nissin 360TW which is sat on the lap top using the Nikon D40.
View attachment 22072 View attachment 22073 View attachment 22077
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Will upload an example of what I was getting, give me 5....
 
This is very odd. If it was a shutter sync problem there would be a black band on the frame. I'm presuming that the first shot is not ambient light only and that the flash has fired.
As suggested earlier:
Try another lens
Ensure that the ISO really is on manual and not Auto
Ensure that the camera is on M and not Av
Eliminate the trigger if possible, with a Canon Speedlight aimed at the flash head on low power manual to fire the flash heads in slave mode, assuming they have optical cells
Remove the batteries from the Transmitter and Receiver, replace and set to the same channel, test fire off the camera.
Test your old transmitters on another body if possible
Try shooting at 1/125 to see if this eliminates the first shot under exposure
Test with a sync cable if possible

Let us know if you have any joy.
 
Yes, very odd.

Did the flash actually fire in the dark shot? What was the ambient light level? Was modelling lamp on? Was it a consistent fault, ie one dark shot and then one correctly exposed every time? What was the delay between each shot? One explanation would be a poor hot-shoe contact and the flash not actually firing every time.

Need to eliminate the trigger, so try with sync lead.
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes, very odd.

Did the flash actually fire in the dark shot? What was the ambient light level? Was modelling lamp on? Was it a consistent fault, ie one dark shot and then one correctly exposed every time? What was the delay between each shot? One explanation would be a poor hot-shoe contact and the flash not actually firing every time.

Need to eliminate the trigger, so try with sync lead.
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That first shot definitely looks like the flash didn't fire.
 
Phil V said:
That first shot definitely looks like the flash didn't fire.
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Yes, it does rather. But the lighting looks similar, hard to tell, but if it was just ambient daylight I'd expect to see a noticeable difference. And if it was just the modelling lamp it would be warmer. The DoF is similar, too. A puzzle so far.
 
I don't think it was the flash not firing as I have these two images also the dark one is only dark on half of it. Also I tried with the sync lead today and had no problems at all :-/

To answer the questions Richard, yes flash definitely fired as I listened for the beep on recharge which I heard after every shot, ambient light level was ok, was in a room with strip lights, yes modelling lamp was on, yes continuous one dark and one correct shot every time, delay was a couple of seconds as once I realised what was going on I took a shot straight after as soon as flash was recharged which doesn't take long as only had it on minimum power.

I have no idea whats going on here lol!
 
amumonamission said:
I don't think it was the flash not firing as I have these two images also the dark one is only dark on half of it. Also I tried with the sync lead today and had no problems at all :-/

To answer the questions Richard, yes flash definitely fired as I listened for the beep on recharge which I heard after every shot, ambient light level was ok, was in a room with strip lights, yes modelling lamp was on, yes continuous one dark and one correct shot every time, delay was a couple of seconds as once I realised what was going on I took a shot straight after as soon as flash was recharged which doesn't take long as only had it on minimum power.

I have no idea whats going on here lol!
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Bit of a guess, but that suggests a problem with the triggers firing late, intermittently. Sometimes so late that the shutter has closed before firing, leaving a dark frame with only ambient light. Check that by using the x-sync lead.

Another reason might be if you're waiting some time between shots, maybe setting up or whatever, and the trigger has actually gone to sleep. Then if you pressed the shutter release fully (without using first-pressure to wake the trigger) that's what you'd quite likely get as the trigger has to wake up first. Possibly. In other words, a technique issue, but check with the sync lead.
 
I'm tempted to say it's the triggers. (but you kinda knew that) :)
 
Try using the sync cable, not the trigger, in an attempt to isolate the problem.
If the sync cable falls off the camera, just GENTLY squeeze the end to give a tighter fit (and a better connection)

Other than that, I'm lost because it makes no sense to me.
 
Looking at photo 3, I think this illustrates that your Studio has quite a lot of ambient light and that the flash has fired, but too late as the second curtain is rising from the bottom of the frame. I would agree with Phil, it has to be the triggers, although I would try a different channel and group on the Triggers just in case there is interference on the original settings.
 
After searching around the web, I've found a Flickr Group dedicated to the Ojecoco/Commlite Triggers. One of the contributors has experienced the same symptoms, one late flash followed by a normal flash within a few seconds. Different camera and quite a technical article but enough information to discern what is probably happening:

https://www.flickr.com/groups/h550/discuss/72157633608983923/

Provided I've interpreted this correctly, it appears that the TX Unit has 2 modes. Mode 1 is effectively a standby. Mode 2 is the normal high speed transmit to the RX Unit. The TX goes from Mode 1 to Mode 2 (fairly slowly?) when the camera auto focuses on the half press of the shutter, or the picture is fully taken, or, it detects a steady standby voltage on the Canon Pin 4 of the hot shoe on the camera (and then remains in Mode 2). If no voltage is detected on Pin 4, then the TX unit reverts back to Mode 1 after a short period of time, which means another missed shot at the next attempt after that time.

Looking from the rear of the camera, Pin 4 is the top right hand pin of the 4 small pins. The same site advises that pins can lose contact if the TX thumb wheel is overtightened on the hot shoe or if the hot shoe clearance is oversize, they suggest this can be a bit of a Canon issue.

So the possibilities could be -
1. Pin 4 not making contact, inspect pin, loosen thumb wheel
2. No voltage to Pin 4, Camera fault
3. TX Unit not detecting voltage, TX fault

TX -Transmitter
RX - Receiver
 
HarveyM said:
After searching around the web, I've found a Flickr Group dedicated to the Ojecoco/Commlite Triggers. One of the contributors has experienced the same symptoms, one late flash followed by a normal flash within a few seconds. Different camera and quite a technical article but enough information to discern what is probably happening:

https://www.flickr.com/groups/h550/discuss/72157633608983923/

Provided I've interpreted this correctly, it appears that the TX Unit has 2 modes. Mode 1 is effectively a standby. Mode 2 is the normal high speed transmit to the RX Unit. The TX goes from Mode 1 to Mode 2 (fairly slowly?) when the camera auto focuses on the half press of the shutter, or the picture is fully taken, or, it detects a steady standby voltage on the Canon Pin 4 of the hot shoe on the camera (and then remains in Mode 2). If no voltage is detected on Pin 4, then the TX unit reverts back to Mode 1 after a short period of time, which means another missed shot at the next attempt after that time.

Looking from the rear of the camera, Pin 4 is the top right hand pin of the 4 small pins. The same site advises that pins can lose contact if the TX thumb wheel is overtightened on the hot shoe or if the hot shoe clearance is oversize, they suggest this can be a bit of a Canon issue.

So the possibilities could be -
1. Pin 4 not making contact, inspect pin, loosen thumb wheel
2. No voltage to Pin 4, Camera fault
3. TX Unit not detecting voltage, TX fault

TX -Transmitter
RX - Receiver
Click to expand...
What an awesome piece of research to help Sarah out. It's why I love this place.
 
Good find Harvey - looks like it (y)
 
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