Olympus OM-D E-M5, E-M1, E-M10 - Mk1, Mk2 & Mk3 Owners Thread

Box Brownie said:
Ref: Bird AI

On the phone not PC now so have not looked at these yet but I found ref link to this on DPReview

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.... Hmm, reading this has confirmed the negatives I have experienced with Bird AI and that it certainly isn't a guaranteed solution - You have to learn which types of subjects you like to shoot which suit the feature best.

Personally I would not advise anyone to buy a M1X because of Bird AI. There are many other more reliable reasons to buy a M1X in my opinion.

Artificial Intelligence 'AI' is currently flavour-of-the-month among all those companies marketing camera and software products but it is a million miles away from human intelligence.
 
What it really boils down to is bird photography is a specialised thing and there have really been no hard and fast guidelines written .when I first changed I asked for settings advise from other users and generally followed what I was told as this appeared to be advise that actually worked , it now seems that inputting a +2 sensitivity setting may be doing more harm than good . But this still has to be tested in real world “keepers” also the advise appears to be for e-m1x users , but I can only assume ? That this applies across the series 1 bodies time will tell .that learning curve just grew again.

update . just changed mine to zero before going out today .will report back later
 
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well just got back in and reviewed todays pics , taken in really good light ,perfect conditions in fact .. never since buying the camera have I had such a low hit rate .. anyone contemplating altering your CAF sensitivity DO NOT DO IT its totally ruined what might have been some really good shots . I have now re-set mine to +2 ... it was worth putting to bed but I often wonder what experience some of these pundits have in actual field work
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hopefully got a few good ones will look in a bit

actual figures 286 shots taken , 164 deleted as OOF that equates to around a 40% hit rate both hand held and on tripod/gimbal with and without t.c . totally disgusting results never been that bad before
 
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on the bright side my new samyang 7.5 fisheye has arrived and im very pleased with it
 
one from the samyang outside my front gate ,gonna love this bit of kit + Lightroom has a built in lens profile for it
change of tack by jeff and jan cohen, on Flickr
 
M1X and Bird D&T , I mentioned previously a guy who posted on DPReview forum about this and I thought his personal conclusions were worth sharing here as follows (if inclined the whole thread there is for reading at DPR) :-

On DPreview the poster David MacAughtry posted here
So how is the E-M1X bird detect AI for BIF?: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)



In another post a bit further down in reply to another poster, he said:-

“Exactly what I found also. I don’t usually have too much trouble putting either the 9 or 25 point boxes on the bird, and doing that with normal CAF (no tracking) has got me better results than the new f/w 2.0 bird AF tracking. But the latter is undoubtedly better for static birds, particularly on water, where normal CAF often focuses on the water instead of the bird.”

I have made bold the bit that I in some regard was concluding (based on such reports, so far) about the setting being a ‘horses for courses choice?

He also (as a Sony and Olympus user) said this in the same area:-
“This thread has prompted me to write up the details of my testing of the Olympus versus Sony systems. There will be too much to put into a forum post, so I’ll put a link to the detailed results when I have completed them. As an early indication, there is no doubt that the A9 has significantly better AF than the EM1iii. However for the kind of very challenging conditions that I was testing in, the EM1X AF (without the new bird AI) actually performed slightly better than the A9 overall, and this combined with the other benefits of the Olympus system makes it a better choice for me.” Note ~ my underlining

Now has his reports posted:-
“The full Sony A9 vs E-M1x (& EM1 iii) BIF hit rate comparison is now up here. My assessment of the A7r4 and 200-600 zoom is also here. I will add hit-rate assessments of the Sony A6400 and A7R3 vs Olympus in subsequent posts. Galleries of the A9 and EM1x shots are here for Kites and here for Falcons .”

Sony A9 vs Olympus E-M1x focus accuracy tests - David McAughtry Photography



The Sony AR7 Mk IV and the Sony 200-600 f5.6-6.3 lens, a non-functional combination for birds in flight? - David McAughtry Photography

For these two links below ~ you need to click each image and the “i” to see which camera was which.



Hawk Conservancy Trust Kites - David McAughtry Photography

Hawk Conservancy Trust Falcons - David McAughtry Photography

I am looking forward to getting my M1X and trying to see how well it "sings & dances" in my hands over the coming months................once the LNR hides open again I already have some subjects and location(s) in mind :)
 
quiet a eye opener guessing which was used , and shows its not always best to jump ships . I personally thought there would be a more marked difference ..goes to show.i got most not all right .. but one thing it does show up really well is the need to get close to stuff
 
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distant marsh harrier today hunting ,wish I hadn't messed with them settings today
wot dat by jeff and jan cohen, on Flickr
 
I agree it is far easier to swing the EM1X round and this will sometimes get shots the A9 wont get as it has so much Mass with a long lens

He compared a f6.3 zoom to a 300f4 prime an a9 and not the a9mkII so not really a side by side test .
I'm not brand loyal and have the EM1X recently bought again and Sony .

I do know that the Sony is my first choice every time it gives me more in focus shots than the EM1X and 300 f4 but i tend to use a 600f4 so that could be why to me both systems offer something But i did sell the EM1X a couple of years ago as I just stopped using it .

Bird detect was 1 reason i came back to Olympus ( still testing it ) and of cause the 150/400 +tc should i decide to get one .

I did do some more tests today using bird detect on closer birds in flight seagulls and it was very good but as Robin says don't buy it just for that as other option's may be just as good as there is not a vast difference between it and C-AF and a block of 9 or 25 at leased you know where the blocks are and its up to you to find the bird with bird detect if it loses the bird you then have to let it find it again it is very quick but a little unnerving at times.

Rob.
 
I wonder if this, about a seasonal break for maintenance, going on to/with the EU webshop and other European countries (Inc UK ???) is something to do with the JIP and global changes mentioned a few weeks back.

OM SYSTEM Cameras, Lenses, Audio & Binoculars

shop.olympus.eu shop.olympus.eu

PS on DPReview I recall a post about the Olympus USA closing their online presence to re-launch later?
 
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I have been keeping quiet but just wanted to say its highly unlikely these new advances will turn you into a BIF photographer, what they stand more chance of doing is helping a proficient BIFer get even more keepers.

Just look at what Jeff and Robin were doing without it, they already had the ability before eye detect etc.
 
mikew said:
I have been keeping quiet but just wanted to say its highly unlikely these new advances will turn you into a BIF photographer, what they stand more chance of doing is helping a proficient BIFer get even more keepers.

Just look at what Jeff and Robin were doing without it, they already had the ability before eye detect etc.
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Yes, it is about adding tools to the "toolbox" to improve proficiency.

Having said that, it has always been the case that pro level cameras also attract the complete novice with money who sees such a purchase making them a great photographer. Though, the Olympus is unlike it's competition in that it is so highly configurable........that alone might put off many potential such purchasers???
 
mikew said:
I have been keeping quiet but just wanted to say its highly unlikely these new advances will turn you into a BIF photographer, what they stand more chance of doing is helping a proficient BIFer get even more keepers.
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Spot on Mike, If i'm going to make the effort to go out in all weathers and if I can afford the latest tech then i will take it to help get more keepers any day .

Rob.
 
On the ball mike , what people forget is I have 20+ years of experience with multi brands and lens combos ,and viewers never see the mundane shots . I.e I got a chaffinch on a tree yesterday done one ready to publish but the other 12 have been discarded .. plus we all have off days when things don’t go to plan , if you can retrieve even one image from that sort of day it’s a result .,

The new software will help on days like that (allegedly ) and in a perfect world I would have a e.m1x ,a 300mm f4 and a order on a 150-400 but I can’t afford any of them .. so like a lot of others I strive to get the best from what I actually own and use
 
the black fox said:
On the ball mike , what people forget is I have 20+ years of experience with multi brands and lens combos ,and viewers never see the mundane shots . I.e I got a chaffinch on a tree yesterday done one ready to publish but the other 12 have been discarded .. plus we all have off days when things don’t go to plan , if you can retrieve even one image from that sort of day it’s a result .,

The new software will help on days like that (allegedly ) and in a perfect world I would have a e.m1x ,a 300mm f4 and a order on a 150-400 but I can’t afford any of them .. so like a lot of others I strive to get the best from what I actually own and use
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Very well said Jeff. This certainly helped me

As a newbie I have learnt so much I’ve the last 7 months/summer & have been greatfull to get a kit that is producing images based on my new found passion of birds (EM1.3 + 100-400), that I am absolutely happy with & for me offer excellent IQ.

Trouble is however, now iv experienced a small negative (however it is small because I’m still getting good shots), where I’m noticing the kit isn’t best in lower light especially over the last few weeks, I have no found my self looking at other lenses/bodies & even other kits (FF), thinking what if I had these, how would that improve things ect....

However after some wise words & a bit of self talking, I think I realise I would be silly to do so. Iv got to think to myself that I’m lucky to have the kit I do & the images I’m getting. And the trouble is like many things, there are so many options, many of which have pros & cons, whether it be better low light ability all the way to size/weight & so what I really need to think is stick with what I have & invest more time in learning craft to make use of my equipment in these negative situation, because in the better situations & the pros is brilliant and probably outweighs the negative times! & along with the powers of post software now too really is there any need to invest in a whole new system or lens, what benifit are they really going to have?

I think the wise words are right, anyone could sit I think yeah I wish I could have one of everything to suit every situation but that just isn’t viable & so yeah I now agree it should really be down to what you have, what works for you and ultimately making the best out of what you have :)

Thanks to everyone too whose wise words got me thinking this way recently :)
 
My thinking is you have to leave some skill in photography or what is the challenge or point to it. Before Auto focus I used to use zone focussing for birds in flight and did go back to that with my E-m5 and e-m1 mk1 when shooting Puffins and razorbils. It is great to have all the bells and whistles but a challenge or two can be equally enjoyable within the hobby.
 
mikew said:
I have been keeping quiet but just wanted to say its highly unlikely these new advances will turn you into a BIF photographer, what they stand more chance of doing is helping a proficient BIFer get even more keepers.

Just look at what Jeff and Robin were doing without it, they already had the ability before eye detect etc.
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.... Jeff is far more skilled at getting BIF keepers than I am on the Olympus (unless my BIF is a great big Pelican on a Greek lake in beautiful light!!).

I have to say that I think having so many AF settings over complicates matters and can even interfere with hit rates and hence confidence.

I think I am only going to use the Bird AI feature when they are in a fairly uncluttered sky background.
 
My recent experience trying to get sharp photos using Bird AI on Turnstones was utterly frustrating and actually annoying. The image below is without Bird AI.

If artificial 'intelligence' is going to frustrate and limit my shots just because it is insisting on getting the credit for capturing the eye in sharp focus, then forget it! I am quite capable of getting an eye in focus without it - Yes I miss some but AI misses many more. I am not a fan.

TURNSTONE ON PEBBLE BEACH by Robin Procter, on Flickr
 
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Just had a peek at my stats on Flickr ,touched the wrong button by accident , but wheeeee just broke the 9 million total views barrier
 
RedRobin said:
My recent experience trying to get sharp photos using Bird AI on Turnstones was utterly frustrating and actually annoying. The image below is without Bird AI.

If artificial 'intelligence' is going to frustrate and limit my shots just because it is insisting on getting the eye in sharp focus, then forget it! I am quite capable of getting an eye in focus without it - Yes I miss some but AI misses many more. I am not a fan.

TURNSTONE ON PEBBLE BEACH by Robin Procter, on Flickr
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As mooted and 'discussed' on last few days in its current iteration it will be a case of choosing the bird AI depending on the birds and their setting.

Not surprisingly, it had stimulated a fair bit of discussion on DPReview......here a couple of threads worth a gander, there are others ;)

Your thoughts on target(s) with EM-1X AI: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.
www.dpreview.com www.dpreview.com

And this one, one members action to create a settings specific thread

Customising the E-M1X and Tips & Tricks: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.
www.dpreview.com www.dpreview.com

Another poster, posted saying why are not Olympus creating a more significant guide as to its usages. Instead relying on users to find their way!
 
heres what happens when you do get it right though , single point focus b.i.f tracked across the marsh full sized pic to start then one to show how far you can actually crop in with this lens and retain detail. No eye detect , it’s a mkii body , single point AF kept on the bird as it flies .. vivid set in pictures mode to help with contrast detect practise ,practise and keep on practising ...
The only thing I might alter is a smaller aperture I.e F8 for better depth of field full size .jpgclosing in .jpg
 
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Re: the 150-400mm lens

Found this linked on DP Review
mirrorlesscomparison.com

Olympus 150-400mm f4.5 Pro Review (vs Canon 800mm f5.6) - Mirrorless Comparison

The Olympus 150-400mm f4.5 Pro is the largest and most expensive micro four thirds lens released to date. It was highly anticipated by wildlife professionals and enthusiasts before the official price cooled the hype. Has Olympus gone too far, or is this a “one of kind” lens that you won’t ...
mirrorlesscomparison.com mirrorlesscomparison.com

A long read not helped by seeing on my phone

So FWIW ;)
 
Box Brownie said:
Re: the 150-400mm lens

Found this linked on DP Review
mirrorlesscomparison.com

Olympus 150-400mm f4.5 Pro Review (vs Canon 800mm f5.6) - Mirrorless Comparison

The Olympus 150-400mm f4.5 Pro is the largest and most expensive micro four thirds lens released to date. It was highly anticipated by wildlife professionals and enthusiasts before the official price cooled the hype. Has Olympus gone too far, or is this a “one of kind” lens that you won’t ...
mirrorlesscomparison.com mirrorlesscomparison.com

A long read not helped by seeing on my phone

So FWIW ;)
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.... There is also a 31-minute video version within that review. Breakfast and then a nice long watch and read - Cheers Box!! :clap::clap::clap:
 
just got back in and dowloaded todays work , after Tuesdays settings debacle had to see if I had got it right again .. no b.i.f today but lots jumping around on rocks to avoid the waves so not static targets , 283 shots taken 233 good to superb ones left . so yep a result and just looked at my battery readout still got 87% battery life left
 
the black fox said:
o.k heres a starter ,more to follow later purple sandpiper on rocks
purple daze by jeff and jan cohen, on Flickr
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.... Great image quality! As you don't have a M1X AFAIK then this would have been without Bird AI. Which C-AF Sensitivity did you set Jeff? Still +2?

I just changed mine from '+2' to '0' after reading that review which Box Brownie posted.
 
RedRobin said:
.... Great image quality! As you don't have a M1X AFAIK then this would have been without Bird AI. Which C-AF Sensitivity did you set Jeff? Still +2?

I just changed mine from '+2' to '0' after reading that review which Box Brownie posted.
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I did that the other day ,total waste of time now reset to +2 .. my keeper rate at 0 dropped to about 30% whoever writes these ideas is definetly not employing them in the real world and u.k
 
Purely only an impression but........

I am beginning to wonder(realise?) that the C-AF sensitivity settings have slight/subtle/discernable differences in characteristics between each body i.e. a setting that most satisfies on the MK2 will not necessarily be as 'good' on the MK3 or M1X and vice versa.

This perhaps can be put down to differences in which TruePic chip each body has and on the case of the M1X, that it has dual processors. Plus, the programming of the way C-AF will function!
 
Interesting that both you and Robin ,both who I would class as first rate bird photographers are finding niggles with this , perhaps it’s aimed more at the learner end of the spectrum ...for my shots today I have reverted back to single fine point ,which I find easy to keep on the birds eye even when there jumping around which they were today even though I have caught them frozen in a moment of time .
 
just been alerted to this one I did when the sky replacement thing came out , obviously BBC springwatch dont read the text as I have never hidden the fact it was a replacement sky
fame at last .jpeg
 
Joe94 said:
How did you get alerted to that? Did they reference your watermark name?
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nah I dont do instagram my mate just messaged me LOL
 
the black fox said:
nah I dont do instagram my mate just messaged me LOL
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Ahh I see, I thought mabye you paid one of them trucking companies. But fair enough, I suppose tbh I’d be flattered if they used one of mine lol.

All I’d do though is comment all over it saying it was mine then post the original in the comments too lol
 
Joe94 said:
Ahh I see, I thought mabye you paid one of them trucking companies. But fair enough, I suppose tbh I’d be flattered if they used one of mine lol.

All I’d do though is comment all over it saying it was mine then post the original in the comments too lol
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its there in the second part Joe I haven't bothered to post that bit
 
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