More on public videoing (and supposedly photography too)

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Wow. China trying to enforce their rules in this country when it comes to public videography.

The first video is quite long but you can quickly get the gist by skipping though. I don't know what the Chinese were trying to achieve here but the second, short, video tries to sum up what was happening. Just goes to show what might happen if you are photographing people in public.

Best watch the long video quickly as according to the second video, the Chinese are trying to take it down. Worrying stuff in this country.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65iwnI2hjAA


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAKTL0MEK34
 
I watched those and found them quite entertaining. The worst part was those busybody security that told him to stop. I would have done the same as him but sat down and continued to play.
Obviously there's a cultural difference but they need to understand OUR laws and not those of the CCCP.
 
The guy went on Talk TV later and had this to say about the Chinese interruption of his piano playing and told us how it all ended. It's all a little worrying that when the Brendan Kavanagh asked if they were Chinese they called the 'Race' card and the British Transport Police got involved.

This is the Talk TV video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BIm-vF-YeY


I don't wish to turn this into a Hot Topic, it is merely here to point out the possible ramifications of filming and photographing in public places, even if you have a perfect right to be doing it.
 
A ridiculous situation. The Chinese people were simply asking him not to show their faces on his YouTube video, not very well phrased but polite. He was obtuse and dogmatic unnecessarily. The Chinese people were anxious about this for pretty obvious reasons if you have any awareness of the intrusiveness of their policing, of course they could have made more effort to stay out of shot but equally he could have been more accommodating without compromising his filming. It wasn't ever an issue about UK and Chinese laws until he made it one.
 
As primarily the pianos are for general enjoyment, we ask that anyone wishing to perform, photograph or film at the pianos for commercial gain, apply to use it for this purpose via the same form and contacts as below. This allows us to manage the pianos in a fair way, ensuring that the public can continue to tinkle the ivories for enjoyment as they pass through, but also allows us to give you the appropriate support needed for your activity should you need it for commercial reasons.
Click to expand...

Would have thought that was the easy ‘out’ for the BTP.
A classic case of how not to handle a problem by all concerned, except for the one guy who kept trying to diffuse the situation.
 
I'm sorry but it has to be written: "a storm in a China teacup". :exit:
 
lindsay said:
A ridiculous situation. The Chinese people were simply asking him not to show their faces on his YouTube video, not very well phrased but polite. He was obtuse and dogmatic unnecessarily. The Chinese people were anxious about this for pretty obvious reasons if you have any awareness of the intrusiveness of their policing, of course they could have made more effort to stay out of shot but equally he could have been more accommodating without compromising his filming. It wasn't ever an issue about UK and Chinese laws until he made it one.
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I haven't seen many of his videos so I don't know how contentious this guy usually is, but in fairness, unless salient parts of the video were edited out, the videographer barely showed the Chinese party until they started to interrupt the piano player. One could hardly condemn the guy for getting a little on his high horse, I can't say I wouldn't myself. It is almost as if the Chinese party were trying to get attention for themselves as they could quite easily have done whatever it was they were doing without ever appearing in the piano player's video shot merely by standing behind the videographer and doing their thing there. It does puzzle me why they weren't concerned with people videoing on their mobile phones, only about the guy on the piano, if I was a conspiracy theorist, I might have thought that the Chinese were deliberately targeting the fellow. I guess we'll never know why the Chinese were really getting upset but it is still a worrying trend that allows foreign actors to try to impose their rules on people going about their business in their own country. It is important that set our own rules in our own country higher than other actors rules while on UK soil -- but don't get me started on the RSPCA's unwillingness to confront the matter of Halal meat.

And at that, not wishing to move away from photography, I move back from the discussion -- I have no wish for a suspension.

Although you might just want to have a look at the picture of the piano, now cordoned off, with guards! You couldn't make it up.

www.dailymail.co.uk

St Pancras piano 'sealed off' after clash between pianist and tourists

Brendan Kavanagh, who also goes by the name Dr K, sparked a row after he shared video showing the moment the Chinese tourists told him to stop filming.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
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This story gets funnier as it goes on.

The Daily Mail, never a newspaper to make a molehill out of a mountain, now reports that the police gentleman told the Chinese people repeatedly that they were in public so they could be filmed by anyone ... but at the same time, the police lady was telling the pianist that his friend couldn't film the Chinese or herself as this was now "a police matter". :D
 
So, all in all, an excellent demonstration of how the Chinese go out of their way not to draw attention to themselves -- hmm, that went well. I expect Xi Jinping may have something urgent to say privately to his politbureau about this.
 
Can we move the thread, without intention it appears to have morphed into a hot topic/conversation other than videoing in public, could go in The Lounge even
 
From the Network Rail website

Photography and film at stations
You can take photographs at stations provided you do not sell them on to a company or stock image agency. That is considered commercial photography.

If you are filming for quite a while or might be using bulky equipment you should let our station staff know so that the reasons for your filming are clear.

Remember:
  • You are not allowed to take photographs of security related equipment, such as CCTV cameras.
  • Flash photography is not allowed at any time. It can distract train drivers and train dispatch staff and so is potentially very dangerous.
  • Tripods should be avoided where possible. If you need to use a tripod you must speak to our station staff to ensure you are in a safe area.
  • Please respect the fact that some people may not want to be photographed.

Guidelines for taking photos at stations - Network Rail

What you need to know about photography and film at our stations to ensure a safe and enjoyable experience.
www.networkrail.co.uk www.networkrail.co.uk
 
The difference between people filming on their mobiles and the pianist's filming is that he was filming himself obviously for Youtube. So anything filmed would go online.
You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to know that the Chinese state security will scan internet content for facial images and any associated text content. Even vague association can screw up someone's political career or status in a public organisation there. Most people filming on phones will, if uploading at all, be doing so to short-term sites like TikTok, so the risk is lesser. So it really shouldn't be seen as the Chinese people trying to apply Chinese laws in the UK, it is simply an attempt to maintain their personal privacy. If you need evidence of why they were paranoid about this, look at what happened in Hong Kong during the umbrella protests.
 
lindsay said:
Most people filming on phones will, if uploading at all, be doing so to short-term sites like TikTok, so the risk is lesser.
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I thought TikTok was (at least partially) owned by a Chinese company? I know it was definitely founded there.

Personally I think the pianist is capitalizing on all this free publicity to drive hits to his channel which puts the entire situation firmly into the commercial realm.

That said the tourists could have been being filmed by any number of people (possibly even Chinese agents) posting to any number of sites without them even knowing, such is the risk of being in a public space in this country so complaining and making a scene seems contrary to their request for privacy. If passer-by's decided to start filming the situation and posting to TikTok that wouldn't be in the realm of commercial but possibly be more damaging as an internationally embarrassing incident from the pov of the Chinese gov.
 
I agree with all your comments @RyanB - the Chinese group were not clever in how and what they did, misguided even, but I get it.
 
I watch a lot of Brendons YouTube vids. He is quite entertaining on the Piano and gets all sorts of people to play with him. I have also saw this one and the Chinese were at it from the beginning, especially the male. If they didn't like being filmed they could have just walked away, they had lots of opportunities to do so, it is a big station.
 
I was surprised by the attitude of that Chinese guy who obviously was their minder. He did his country no good as a representative of China, no doubt that video will put off a lot of people who may be thinking of going there for a holiday. All I can say having been to China I found the Chinese courteous and went out of their way to make sure we enjoyed the holiday.
 
Nikon f1.8 said:
I watch a lot of Brendons YouTube vids. He is quite entertaining on the Piano and gets all sorts of people to play with him. I have also saw this one and the Chinese were at it from the beginning, especially the male. If they didn't like being filmed they could have just walked away, they had lots of opportunities to do so, it is a big station.
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Absolutley...and they were hardley being discrete with their presence. How many times did their "Spokesman" say "Don't touch my friend!"?
 
I have to say that in the light of further revelations, clearly all was not as it seemed to me, and my benefit of the doubt towards the Chinese people in that clip was misplaced. However I still think both sides of the argument were and are using it to amplify their social media presence etc.
 
lindsay said:
I have to say that in the light of further revelations, clearly all was not as it seemed to me, and my benefit of the doubt towards the Chinese people in that clip was misplaced. However I still think both sides of the argument were and are using it to amplify their social media presence etc.
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As you say both sides of this have an agenda.

The Chinese knew they were being filmed whilst in a public space and had ample opportunity to move away. After standing in shot for several minutes, they then chose to confront the YouTuber, surely knowing that their protests and action were also being filmed. That one of them is being sued in China for the very thing they are accusing the YouTuber of doing is at best hypocrisy (a dish best served with soy sauce it seems).

The YouTuber was clearly filming for commercial reasons which is against DoT policy. That this group of apparent ‘tourists’ protested helped turn this into an ‘event’ that he was only too willing to take advantage of. He must be delighted with how it’s all turned out.

Molehill, mountain…
 
lindsay said:
A ridiculous situation. The Chinese people were simply asking him not to show their faces on his YouTube video, not very well phrased but polite. He was obtuse and dogmatic unnecessarily. The Chinese people were anxious about this for pretty obvious reasons if you have any awareness of the intrusiveness of their policing, of course they could have made more effort to stay out of shot but equally he could have been more accommodating without compromising his filming. It wasn't ever an issue about UK and Chinese laws until he made it one.
Click to expand...

Sorry but this is just all wrong.

If they had issues with being filmed then they could have moved away, even better don't go out in public.
It's not for the British to cow toe to these sort of demands just because of possible issues in China. Why should our rights be curtailed so as not to offend others?

Well done to Brendan for standing up to them (and that stupid police woman).

What annoys me is the amount of time the police wasted dealing with it. It should have been a simple "They are allowed to film in public if you don't like it move on".
 
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ecoleman said:
What annoys me is the amount of time the police wasted dealing with it. It should have been a simple "They are allowed to film in public if you don't like it move on".
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Which was exactly what initially took place with the arrival of the male officer ... he must have been well pleased with Mrs Knowitall taking over!
 
lindsay said:
The difference between people filming on their mobiles and the pianist's filming is that he was filming himself obviously for Youtube. So anything filmed would go online.
You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to know that the Chinese state security will scan internet content for facial images and any associated text content. Even vague association can screw up someone's political career or status in a public organisation there. Most people filming on phones will, if uploading at all, be doing so to short-term sites like TikTok, so the risk is lesser. So it really shouldn't be seen as the Chinese people trying to apply Chinese laws in the UK, it is simply an attempt to maintain their personal privacy. If you need evidence of why they were paranoid about this, look at what happened in Hong Kong during the umbrella protests.
Click to expand...
Why should we go with the worst of the worst and abandon our liberties and rights? Hint: we don't
 
After watching a few YouTube videos, and news reports regarding this incident. The Chinese group did in fact ask politely about not including their faces in the video. The issue was the Piano player informed it was a live stream, and their faces are already out there. What is even more bizarre is that China is very media stream hungry society, and most people use video / live stream on a multitude of social media platforms in china, of which many we have not heard off, or are not available outside of china.

What is at the centre of this incident is the police telling the piano player to not video, and remove the chinse group from the video, as if the Police are the chinse own private security. It is yet another example of the feelings police intimidating members of the public for corporate bodies. What is also bizarre is the chinse group had their own video running ! ! !
The chinse man was bordering on a Section 5 public disorder and I would have hoped the police had an unpolite chat with him.

The piano player was correct in his statement, this is a free country, we are not in China, the public can video in a public place, if you not want your face on a camera stay at home and certainly do not walk up to a person with a camera !

I have had the misfortune of experiencing very rude chinse tourists while on holiday around the world and now I am a equally rude back to them. This is a cultural difference, and the chinse group need an education of what is allowed in the UK, and that chinse rules do not extend to the UK.
 
ecoleman said:
Sorry but this is just all wrong.

If they had issues with being filmed then they could have moved away, even better don't go out in public.
It's not for the British to cow toe to these sort of demands just because of possible issues in China. Why should our rights be curtailed so as not to offend others?

Well done to Brendan for standing up to them (and that stupid police woman).

What annoys me is the amount of time the police wasted dealing with it. It should have been a simple "They are allowed to film in public if you don't like it move on".
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Completely agree would have been sorted out in seconds instead of all this drama, ridiculous waste of everyone's time.
 
DemiLion said:
Minor point - St Pancras is not a 'public place'
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St Pancras station IS a public place. There is free access for the public to come and go, as they please. The Chinese group could have no real expectation of privacy, especially if they are included in a video incidentally.

it is, however, privately owned. So the owners can impose rules such as no photograhy - the South Bank is a well known example of this. I believe that British Rail allows casual photography, for personal use but, if you want to photograph for commercial purposes they require that you negotiate with them. I also believe that Dr K monetises his videos, so they MIGHT have an issue with him on this point.
 
ecoleman said:
Sorry but this is just all wrong.

If they had issues with being filmed then they could have moved away, even better don't go out in public.
It's not for the British to cow toe to these sort of demands just because of possible issues in China. Why should our rights be curtailed so as not to offend others?

Well done to Brendan for standing up to them (and that stupid police woman).

What annoys me is the amount of time the police wasted dealing with it. It should have been a simple "They are allowed to film in public if you don't like it move on".
Click to expand...

Although the property is privately owned its clear from the Network Rail's website they do not object to photography (I don't know if this extends to video). It is an area to which the public have access and therefore can anyone have an expectation of privacy when in the station?

Alternatively any video of BK is likely to be published so could it be regarded as commercial photography? Again I don't know if there are different rules/reguations about videos.

My view is if you are in a place to which the public have access(and the owners of the property have not forbidden photograhy) and some recording of any form is going on but you don't want to be recorded then just move away.

Dave
 
yzfmike said:
St Pancras station IS a public place.
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No, it isn't.

yzfmike said:
There is free access for the public to come and go, as they please...

it is, however, privately owned. So the owners can impose rules such as no photograhy -
Click to expand...


You have just perfectly described a private place with public access - which describes well over 90% of land in England and Wales.
 
yzfmike said:
St Pancras station IS a public place. There is free access for the public to come and go, as they please. The Chinese group could have no real expectation of privacy, especially if they are included in a video incidentally.

it is, however, privately owned. So the owners can impose rules such as no photograhy - the South Bank is a well known example of this. I believe that British Rail allows casual photography, for personal use but, if you want to photograph for commercial purposes they require that you negotiate with them. I also believe that Dr K monetises his videos, so they MIGHT have an issue with him on this point.
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It is a place to which the public have access, which is not the same as a 'Public Place'. :)
 
Tringa said:
It is an area to which the public have access and therefore can anyone have an expectation of privacy when in the station?
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Yes, no, sort of and maybe.

Standing around, milling in public, like the people in that video were doing, then no, they have no such expectation.

Someone suffering from a medical trauma and being treated by paramedics however, almost certainly could.
 
DemiLion said:
Yes, no, sort of and maybe.

Standing around, milling in public, like the people in that video were doing, then no, they have no such expectation.

Someone suffering from a medical trauma and being treated by paramedics however, almost certainly could.
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It would be nice to convince some people who video every medical/police/fire incident on their mobile phones that it would be nicer to help out rather than trying to get more 'likes' on their stupid TikTok channels while getting in the way, or worse, deliberately impeding these authorities in their work; these are sad times in which we live.
 
DemiLion said:
...with a spring roll, couple of spare ribs and maybe a couple of steamed pork dumplings.
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Personally, I'm rather a fan of pancake rolls followed by sweet and sour pork Hong Kong style.
 
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