£400 EOS 650D (Lens Kit) or D5200 w 50mm f/1.8G (£450)

[Grums]

EDIT : See post 3.

Hi,

Looking for some advice on this. I currently have an Olympus E-PL1 which I really like, great camera for the price. Love the art modes and with some post processing it achieves great results. However, Im looking for something a bit better now, but still on a budget. I am looking at two cameras. Canon EOS 650D and the Nikon D5200. I can get the 650D 2nd hand for £300 with Kit Lens and the D5200 for £300 2nd hand body only.

I have been looking at these two cameras all night, but cant make up my mind. The D5200 does look to be slightly better, but is it worth the extra money?

Also, if it helps any. I will mainly be taking landscape shots and would like to get a 10-22mm lens at some point.

If someone could give some advice on the two cameras it would be much appreciated.

Also, another option I was looking at is the E-PL5. For £350 I can get this with 2 Lenses new, if I sold one on the lenses it would bring it to the same price as the canon. How would this compare to a 650D though in image quality?

Many Thanks.

 

[Grums]

Updated first post with the D5200 for consideration now as well.

 

[Grums]

Hi,

Have been reading a lot an looking around and have definitely decided on either the 650D or the D5200. I just cant choose which one.

I can get a 2nd hand EOS 650D for £300 with the lens kit. And the D5200 body for £300 and the AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.8G for £90. So £390 all in. Again, 2nd hand.

My question really is the D5200 with that lens worth £100 over the 650D and the Lens Kit?

Ultimately I will be taking mostly landscape shots while hiking, and also some ocean shore / cliff rock pics. Some night city shots to if this is any help.

Im hoping to purchase one of these on Monday. So any advice before then is great.

Also, any tips on a good budget lens for landscapes would be great also.

Thanks.

 

[ernesto]

When you say you are looking for something a bit better what do you mean by a bit better (focusing, ISO, viewfinder, handling etc,.) If you are solely talking about image quality there won't be much in it (although the D5200 with a 50 should be slightly better IQ than 650D with kit lens)

The 18-55 would be way more versatile for landscapes and the shots you suggest although the 50 1.8 would be better at night.

My preference would be a 35 1.8 and that is teh only lens I use for everything but that doesn't mean it would work for you.

 

[Grums]

Hi,

Thanks for replying. Yeah, I am just looking for an improvement in image quality. The E-PL1 can get some great shots. But not them really wow shots you see from DSLR's. However I understand that achieving such great shots has alot to do with the lenses used and photography knowledge. I am still new to photography am still learning.

I'm surprised to hear there wouldn't be much difference in image quality from the E-PL1 though. If this is the case I would have to rethink the upgrade. Its quite difficult trying to find comparisons online of the E-PL1 and the DSLR's

Here are two of the better examples of landscape /night /macro which I could get from the E-PL1 kit lens with a bit of post process to give you an idea. In your opinion, what camera models would I need to be looking at to see a decent step up in image quality?

 

[andyred]

Hi,

Have been reading a lot an looking around and have definitely decided on either the 650D or the D5200. I just cant choose which one.

I can get a 2nd hand EOS 650D for £300 with the lens kit. And the D5200 body for £300 and the AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.8G for £90. So £390 all in. Again, 2nd hand.

My question really is the D5200 with that lens worth £100 over the 650D and the Lens Kit? .....

Thanks.

You can buy a brand new Canon 50mm F1.8 for around £80 - 85 http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Canon/Canon-EF-lenses/Canon-EF-50mm-f1.8-II-Lens which brings both to a similar price.

Personally, I would see which you prefer, there will be slight pros and cons for each of the 2 bodies you've listed. Try to handle both bodies, see which feels most comfortable in your hand, see which menu system is most intuitive to you to use, which ones buttons fall better for you, which do you prefer ...etc

It's a personal choice when buying a camera and most people tend to stick with 1 brand once started, mainly due to familiarity and also money invested in lenses etc...so you need to make sure you are comfortable with your choice, I don't think you'd be disappointed with either of the 2 cameras.

Good luck

 

[strumstrum]

if the only reason you are looking for a DSLR is image quality then I see disappointment ahead..

what have you done with the sample shots post processing wise? have you a Flickr link?

if you are after a DSLR then that is great, but if all you are after is 'better' image quality over what you feel you are currently achieving then getting a DSLR might not rectify that.

 

[Grums]

You can buy a brand new Canon 50mm F1.8 for around £80 - 85 http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Canon/Canon-EF-lenses/Canon-EF-50mm-f1.8-II-Lens which brings both to a similar price.

Personally, I would see which you prefer, there will be slight pros and cons for each of the 2 bodies you've listed. Try to handle both bodies, see which feels most comfortable in your hand, see which menu system is most intuitive to you to use, which ones buttons fall better for you, which do you prefer ...etc

It's a personal choice when buying a camera and most people tend to stick with 1 brand once started, mainly due to familiarity and also money invested in lenses etc...so you need to make sure you are comfortable with your choice, I don't think you'd be disappointed with either of the 2 cameras.

Good luck

Thanks for the reply and the link.

I have actually now been offered the 650D kit for £280. I would possibly have £200 to spend on a lens for this then. My local Currys has the Nikon there, so I could get a feel for that in store but unfortunately they don't have the Canon.

 

[Grums]

if the only reason you are looking for a DSLR is image quality then I see disappointment ahead..

what have you done with the sample shots post processing wise? have you a Flickr link?

if you are after a DSLR then that is great, but if all you are after is 'better' image quality over what you feel you are currently achieving then getting a DSLR might not rectify that.

Hi,

Thanks for replying. I would be interested in knowing why your feel I would be disapointed by the DSLR image quality. I appreciate any advice you give.

Post processing wise, just some colour correction, noice redution etc in Photoshop.

Although I really believe the E-PL1 is an awesome camera for its price. There is one or two small things that are annoying, such as the screen. Its low res so you cant see if an image has been blured. Also, it can be very slow at focusing close objects at times. I also want to learn more about aperature, shutter speed etc. Its awkward changing these in the Olympus manually also.

I have a flickr here, but not much on it. Just a couple of images.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/98794646@N03/with/9271248030/

Another thing I forgot to mention. I may use the camera for textures as well.

Also, just to give an idea. Here is some examples I found of flickr of the D5200. These are the type of image I would hopefully be able to achieve, not straight away but after I have learned how to use DSLR's and spent time with it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/diasgallery/11631195866/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/diasgallery/11917209983/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/didierhannot/10500744993/

I understand it would take a bit of time developing my photography knowledge and would require a better lens, but these are the type of images I would hope to achieve.

 

[dave_bass5]

I can't help decide as I e never used a Nikon, but can say the 650D is a really nice camera that will do the job well.
I think at this level it will be the lenses that make the difference, not so much the camera.
I'm sure you are aware of this but I'd say a lot of the pop you see I. Posted images comes from processing as well as having a good shot to start with. Your posted images look pretty good to me.
You also mention macro. I don't know of any cheap macro lenses for the Canon system, although a set of Polaroid macro tubes (kenko copies) will only set you back about £60. The canon kit lens will probably be a bit of a disappointment if you are expecting a huge jump in IQ, although its a decent enough kit lens.
I'd like to think all the above goes for the Nikon kit as well can't say for sure.

 

[Grums]

I can't help decide as I e never used a Nikon, but can say the 650D is a really nice camera that will do the job well.
I think at this level it will be the lenses that make the difference, not so much the camera.
I'm sure you are aware of this but I'd say a lot of the pop you see I. Posted images comes from processing as well as having a good shot to start with. Your posted images look pretty good to me.
You also mention macro. I don't know of any cheap macro lenses for the Canon system, although a set of Polaroid macro tubes (kenko copies) will only set you back about £60. The canon kit lens will probably be a bit of a disappointment if you are expecting a huge jump in IQ, although its a decent enough kit lens.
I'd like to think all the above goes for the Nikon kit as well can't say for sure.

Thanks alot for the reply.

Yeah, I have been reading a lot about lenses and how they will play a larger factor than the body. I had actually been looking at the D5100 as well in order to save some money for a better lens.

From all the reviews I have read, both seem good cameras with there own pro's and cons. Its agreed the D5200 does have the better image quality, but its very slight and better in low light. I just don't know if its enough to justify the extra cash. Plus the Canon has advantages in other areas.

As far as the Kit Lens, I heard the 650D isnt to bad but the 5200 is terrible which is why I would just buy the body only for the Nikon if I went that route. If I got the Canon I would experiment with the Kit lens for a while and then upgrade once comfortable with it.

The only other option I can see at the minute is the Nikon D7000. I can get the body for this at £370 2nd hand, but again. I'm unsure how big a difference this is from the D5200. And it would reduce my budget for a good lens.

It's quite a bit of money for me to be spending, so I'm just trying to get as much advice and do as much research as I can before committing to the purchase.

Also, Im not to worried about Macro. For now my main focus is landscapes, as I will be doing alot of hiking.

I've been looking at a couple or 10-22mm lenses for landscape shots. Quite expensive though.

Thanks again.

 

[strumstrum]

Although I really believe the E-PL1 is an awesome camera for its price. There is one or two small things that are annoying, such as the screen. Its low res so you cant see if an image has been blured. Also, it can be very slow at focusing close objects at times. I also want to learn more about aperature, shutter speed etc. Its awkward changing these in the Olympus manually also.
.

see when you sit back and think its not all about IQ.. I remember having the EP1 and I also remember only using AF in the day outside as it used to blooming annoy me in any other situation..

you will see improvements in using a DSLR just don't expect the IQ to be 'WOW' compared to what you have, but yes quicker and more accurate AF, easier to control and access settings you will see improvements, then things such as better at high ISO, flippy screen etc.. are going to be added bonuses compared to what you already have.

I personally much prefer the consumer end Nikons over the Canons but they are very similar and you do lose the focus motor in the Nikon so no bargain older lenses unless you want to MF

 

[ernesto]

Although I really believe the E-PL1 is an awesome camera for its price. There is one or two small things that are annoying, such as the screen. Its low res so you cant see if an image has been blured. Also, it can be very slow at focusing close objects at times. I also want to learn more about aperature, shutter speed etc. Its awkward changing these in the Olympus manually also.

Faster focusing, easier to adjust aperture and shutter speed (and better screen as the DSLRs you are looking at are much newer) will all be improved by using a DSLR over you E-PL1 so good reasons.

IQ won't be dramatically improved though unless you take a lot of shots at high ISO which is where the modern sensors will outperform your old E-PL1 sensor. So you night shots could be improved (assuming you are hand held and need the shutter speeds)

The biggest difference in IQ (still not massive) would be to possibly to move away from the kit lens which you would be doing if going for Nikon with 50 1.8 (however limited a fixed 50 is for you)

 

[dave_bass5]

Thanks alot for the reply.

As far as the Kit Lens, I heard the 650D isnt to bad but the 5200 is terrible which is why I would just buy the body only for the Nikon if I went that route. If I got the Canon I would experiment with the Kit lens for a while and then upgrade once comfortable with it.

Thanks again.

No problem. This is never an easy choice to make, and even after the body has been purchased it doesn't stop.
The Canon kit lens is ok, but for finer detail it's quite soft in my experience.
There is no doubt it will work, but if you tend to crop in or view at 100% don't expect too much. At normal size viewing it's fine.
As already mentioned something like the cheap 50mm /1.8II will blow the kit lens out of the water as far as IQ goes. These are very cheap second hand.

 

[applemint]

Hi,

Thanks for replying. Yeah, I am just looking for an improvement in image quality. The E-PL1 can get some great shots. But not them really wow shots you see from DSLR's. However I understand that achieving such great shots has alot to do with the lenses used and photography knowledge. I am still new to photography am still learning.

Looks like you just had the 14-42 kit lens with the E-PL1? I also had an E-PL1 and I find that the micro four thirds cameras really need a prime lens to shine (although you could probably say the same about a dslr and kit lens). Plenty of good E-PL1 photos here: https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=E-PL1&s=int

DSLR lenses do tend to be cheaper than their m43 equivalents, but that said there are some fairly inexpensive m43 prime lenses that give really good results - the Panasonic 14mm f2.5 (£100 used, £120 new) and 20mm f1.7 (£200 used, £280 new), the Sigma 19mm, 30mm (both from around £70 used and around £125 new, and 60mm (£100 used, £125 new) and the Olympus 45mm f1.8 (from £150 used, £200 new). The Olympus 40-150mm is also very good for the price (£120 new).

I found there was a noticeable difference between the older 12mp m43 sensors (E-PL1) and the newer 16mp sensors at higher ISO's (800 and up) but at lower ISO not much difference - maybe a bit more dynamic range. Having a viewfinder and a better screen and a scroll wheel to change aperture /shutter and exposure comp made more of a difference to me (going from an Olympus E-PL1 to a Panasonic G3 which is what I have now).

The G3 can be found used for around £100 which is a good bargain (there is one in the classifieds here - not mine) and you can pick up the newer G5 for £250 new which is also excellent value: http://www.wilkinson.co.uk/cameras/...nasonic/panasonic-lumix-g5-black-14-42mm.html (There were some at £199 body only new but they seem to be sold out?) The newer G5 will give you almost identical image quality to the G3 but better ergonomics (grip) and some other useful features like a horizon level (good for landscapes) and the ability to change the focus point by touching the screen while looking through the viewfinder.

I mention all the above as you already have a m43 camera and say you do a lot of hiking etc - in which case the smaller, lighter, camera and lenses is a bonus.

Other option is the 2 dslrs you mentioned - the D5200 @24mp will have a bit more resolution (useful if you print very large or want to crop) and be a bit better at high ISO than the Canon. But any difference between them will be minimal. Other advantages of a dslr vs m43 (I use both a dslr and micro four thirds, the latter for when I want less weight/bulk: eg hiking) is longer battery life, ovf vs evf (many prefer an ovf, some prefer an evf), and I prefer to use my dslr when things are moving fast (wildlife, events etc) as I find the bigger size makes it faster and easier to change settings quickly without taking your eye from the viewfinder. Tracking focus is better too (not an issue for landscapes of course) and as mentioned the availability and cost of lenses is better for Canon and Nikon, especially used. By the way, Hdew have the D5200 (new but grey import) for £325: http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/nikon-d5200-body-1169-p.asp and the Canon 600D (not 650D) for £299. http://www.ephotozine.com/article/canon-eos-600d-vs-650d-dslr-comparison-19379

 

[Ulfric M Douglas]

The E-PL1 can get some great shots. But not them really wow shots you see from DSLR's.

Without being clear on what improvements you want, it is impossible to advise you.
I understand you only have the kit lens, a 14-42mm zoom.
An APS-C DSLR with kit zoom may actually deliver worse pictures as the e-pL1 Jpegs have great colours and clarity, and you have not defined that incredible secret sauce you have seen from DSLR photos.
If you use RAW tell us.

 

[Grums]

Without being clear on what improvements you want, it is impossible to advise you.
I understand you only have the kit lens, a 14-42mm zoom.
An APS-C DSLR with kit zoom may actually deliver worse pictures as the e-pL1 Jpegs have great colours and clarity, and you have not defined that incredible secret sauce you have seen from DSLR photos.
If you use RAW tell us.

Hi,

Yeah, I only use Raw. The E-PL1 actually saves out both Raw + JPEG (Which are great) but I love editing Raw Files in Photoshop.

I posted a link to some DSLR Images on flickr on a previous post with the 5200 to give you an idea of what I'm after. Im not sure the exact terms to describe it, but I just find DSLR's have a nicer look to them especially have higher resolutions.

One thing that I have seen in some DSLR images, especially the 5200 and D7000 is the ability to get some really great detailed and atmospheric skies.

 

[Grums]

I've been offered the 650D + Lens Kit for £260 now. Seems like a really good deal price wise. My heart sort of tells me to go for the D5200 / D7000, but the 650D just seems like a hard price to turn down.

 

[Grums]

Looks like you just had the 14-42 kit lens with the E-PL1? I also had an E-PL1 and I find that the micro four thirds cameras really need a prime lens to shine (although you could probably say the same about a dslr and kit lens). Plenty of good E-PL1 photos here: https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=E-PL1&s=int

DSLR lenses do tend to be cheaper than their m43 equivalents, but that said there are some fairly inexpensive m43 prime lenses that give really good results - the Panasonic 14mm f2.5 (£100 used, £120 new) and 20mm f1.7 (£200 used, £280 new), the Sigma 19mm, 30mm (both from around £70 used and around £125 new, and 60mm (£100 used, £125 new) and the Olympus 45mm f1.8 (from £150 used, £200 new). The Olympus 40-150mm is also very good for the price (£120 new).

I found there was a noticeable difference between the older 12mp m43 sensors (E-PL1) and the newer 16mp sensors at higher ISO's (800 and up) but at lower ISO not much difference - maybe a bit more dynamic range. Having a viewfinder and a better screen and a scroll wheel to change aperture /shutter and exposure comp made more of a difference to me (going from an Olympus E-PL1 to a Panasonic G3 which is what I have now).

The G3 can be found used for around £100 which is a good bargain (there is one in the classifieds here - not mine) and you can pick up the newer G5 for £250 new which is also excellent value: http://www.wilkinson.co.uk/cameras/...nasonic/panasonic-lumix-g5-black-14-42mm.html (There were some at £199 body only new but they seem to be sold out?) The newer G5 will give you almost identical image quality to the G3 but better ergonomics (grip) and some other useful features like a horizon level (good for landscapes) and the ability to change the focus point by touching the screen while looking through the viewfinder.

I mention all the above as you already have a m43 camera and say you do a lot of hiking etc - in which case the smaller, lighter, camera and lenses is a bonus.

Other option is the 2 dslrs you mentioned - the D5200 @24mp will have a bit more resolution (useful if you print very large or want to crop) and be a bit better at high ISO than the Canon. But any difference between them will be minimal. Other advantages of a dslr vs m43 (I use both a dslr and micro four thirds, the latter for when I want less weight/bulk: eg hiking) is longer battery life, ovf vs evf (many prefer an ovf, some prefer an evf), and I prefer to use my dslr when things are moving fast (wildlife, events etc) as I find the bigger size makes it faster and easier to change settings quickly without taking your eye from the viewfinder. Tracking focus is better too (not an issue for landscapes of course) and as mentioned the availability and cost of lenses is better for Canon and Nikon, especially used. By the way, Hdew have the D5200 (new but grey import) for £325: http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/nikon-d5200-body-1169-p.asp and the Canon 600D (not 650D) for £299. http://www.ephotozine.com/article/canon-eos-600d-vs-650d-dslr-comparison-19379

Hi,

Yeah, only ever used the Kit Lens with it. E-PL1 can definitely get some great pics. I had considered a prime for it as well. Plus the current deal on the E-PL5 with 2 lenes I considered alot also.

The G5 definitely looks interesting, I will give a read up on it. Unfortunately I don't have access to the classifieds on here yet.

Thanks for posting the a link to the D5200 body. I had not heard of that site, but there prices are very good.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Ulfric M Douglas]

I posted a link to some DSLR Images on flickr on a previous post with the 5200 to give you an idea of what I'm after. Im not sure the exact terms to describe it, but I just find DSLR's have a nicer look to them especially have higher resolutions.

One thing that I have seen in some DSLR images, especially the 5200 and D7000 is the ability to get some really great detailed and atmospheric skies.

Ah, I see your links, to three images processed for dramatic skies, and in one case yellow trees.
Your own camera is more than capable of the exact same results,
however you sound like you don't want to believe it, or have other perfectly valid reasons to buy a new DSLR,
nothing wrong with that.
but I'll say again : your e-pL1 with kit zoom is a very fine tool to create EXACTLY the scenes of the type you like, no new lens, just proper use of bracketing and post-processing software.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/diasgallery/11631195866/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/diasgallery/11917209983/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/didierhannot/10500744993/

 

[Grums]

After a alot of consideration, I have decided to go for the EOS 650D. At £260 with Lens Kit it was hard to turn down. I will give it a try and see how I like it. If it turns out not to be for me, I should be able to sell it on again and make back most of what I have paid for it. Either way, hopefully I am able to get a better understanding of using DSLR's and shooting manually from using it.

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[Grums]

Ah, I see your links, to three images processed for dramatic skies, and in one case yellow trees.
Your own camera is more than capable of the exact same results,
however you sound like you don't want to believe it, or have other perfectly valid reasons to buy a new DSLR,
nothing wrong with that.
but I'll say again : your e-pL1 with kit zoom is a very fine tool to create EXACTLY the scenes of the type you like, no new lens, just proper use of bracketing and post-processing software.

Hi,

I am actually going to hold onto my E-PL1 as well for now. When my 650D arrives, I will take both with me and do some comparison shots to see how they fair.

 

[landwomble]

260? Bloody hell, you did well. get Magic Lantern installed now, it adds a lot more useful functionality.

 

[Picsta]

A 650d for £260 - you could sell it straight on for a profit if you don't like it!

 

[Grums]

260? Bloody hell, you did well. get Magic Lantern installed now, it adds a lot more useful functionality.

Ha, thanks. Had a read on Magic Lateran, looks very interesting. Can changing / hacking the firmware be bad in any ways?

Also, can anyone recommend a good budget wide angle lens for the canon and also a portable tri piod?

Thanks again.

 

[andyred]

After a alot of consideration, I have decided to go for the EOS 650D. At £260 with Lens Kit it was hard to turn down. I will give it a try and see how I like it. If it turns out not to be for me, I should be able to sell it on again and make back most of what I have paid for it. Either way, hopefully I am able to get a better understanding of using DSLR's and shooting manually from using it.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Looks like you've got yourself a great bargain and enjoy your new camera...

 

[andyred]

Ha, thanks. Had a read on Magic Lateran, looks very interesting. Can changing / hacking the firmware be bad in any ways?

Also, can anyone recommend a good budget wide angle lens for the canon and also a portable tri piod?

Thanks again.

I've the Sigma 10-20mm UWA and it's a great lens and certainly worth a look at

 

[Grums]

Thanks again for replying. I will definitely give the Sigma a look at, been looking at the Canon 10-22, tokina and one other one as well. Are there any lenses that could be recommended for both landscape and as a walk about lens?

I will mess around with the Kit Lens for a week before going for a wide lens.

 

[andyred]

Thanks again for replying. I will definitely give the Sigma a look at, been looking at the Canon 10-22, tokina and one other one as well. Are there any lenses that could be recommended for both landscape and as a walk about lens?

I will mess around with the Kit Lens for a week before going for a wide lens.

The Canon UWA is a cracker of a lens, but does carry a price.

I looked at both and opted for the Sigma, I couldn't really see a huge difference between the 2 I tried and for what / how often I use it, the Sigma was the better option.
The other lens maybe a Tamron, again, I would suggest you set yourself a budget and then look at them and see which you prefer and what suits your needs. I think you are doing the right thing playing with the kit lens first...

Enjoy it

 

[Grums]

Hi,

Yeah, price will play a large factor. The Sigma does look like a great choice, if I could get it at a good price I would go for it. The Tamron was the other lens I looked at, it was a bit cheaper I think.

Have you ever used the Canon EF 40mm f2.8? I have seen a number of pictures with it which look very good, and it can be found for £80 on ebay. I am considering it as a walk around lens.

 

[andyred]

Hi,

Yeah, price will play a large factor. The Sigma does look like a great choice, if I could get it at a good price I would go for it. The Tamron was the other lens I looked at, it was a bit cheaper I think.

Have you ever used the Canon EF 40mm f2.8? I have seen a number of pictures with it which look very good, and it can be found for £80 on ebay. I am considering it as a walk around lens.

Hi

No, not used the 40mm Pancake lens personally, but if you search on here, you'll see lots of good feedback on it and it certainly gets a good following. It is a good alternative to the 50mm F1.8 and as it's slightly wider, on a crop body, for some people it's a better walk about lens. Try your kit lens, have a look at what focal range you are using the most (as a walk about lens) and then this will give you an idea of what focal length you should be looking for...

 

[Grums]

Thanks again for replying. Yeah, that's what I will do. I will mess around with the Kit for a while before deciding what to get. From what I remember with my E-PL1, I mostly shot within the 14-25mm range. Except macros.