105mm polarisers (Lee, Heliopan and B&W) and wide lenses

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dalex_257

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Alexey Danilchenko
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Hi all,

I am currently using the following Lee setup on my D300 - Lee Universal hood (two 2mm slots) with 105mm Lee polariser (linear) and 77mm wide angle ring. This all goes on Nikon 17-35 lens and works fine on DX at all focal length (with ND grads and polariser attached). For information, the Universal hood with 2 slots and polariser has equivalent height (in terms of polariser position) to Foundation holder with 3 slots and polariser.

I am planning though to extend to full frame and have been using my friend's D700 with this setup and lens and discovered that Lee polariser causes vignetting up until 22mm (quite severe at 17mm). Taking the polariser off (and leaving 105mm ring attached) it does not vignette at 17mm. I searched various sources and came across a few suggestions here that using other brands polarisers will allow to go wider. I therefore wanted for people to share their experiences (which will help me decide which one to go after).

I did check some Heliopans - had a conversation with a chap with Heliopan Kasemann 105mm (non slim) but that seems to have even higher rim than Lee. I appreciate any help.

Update: I did managed to get slim linear Heliopan and that is absolutely brilliant. It is about 5-6mm shorter than Lee and whilst it still won't go completely vignetting free on 17mm with 2 filters holder it is a lot better. At 17mm it's onlu slight vignetting in the corners (if stopped down it could still be seen as hard vignetting so I can see the sides of polariser) bit it is gone completely at 19mm. Taking one slot out it is pretty much vignetting free at 17mm. Contrary to what I was told - Heliopan seems to be easy to screw on and turn - the rotating ring is not tiny and allows a good grip. The linear slim one was not expensive - only cost me 130 pounds (incl. VAT) bought directly from Heliopan advised German store. I would advise and recommend this store for Heliopan filters - they were very good at communicating in English and the prices were a lot better than those quoted to me by Teamwork Digital (who are official Heliopan distributors here). For example in my case I was quoted GBP 174 for the above filter by Teamwork Digital (including VAT but excluding delivery).
 
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Imagine you are looking through a grate or grill (this is how polarisers are made).

If you are looking perpendicular to it, you will be able to see through it quite well. Now think what you would see if you were looking through it from an angle. the rungs will start to cover more and more of the gaps until you can no longer see through it at all. This is why you get increasing vignetting as you get away from the centre of the lens.
 
Oggy said:
Imagine you are looking through a grate or grill (this is how polarisers are made).

If you are looking perpendicular to it, you will be able to see through it quite well. Now think what you would see if you were looking through it from an angle. the rungs will start to cover more and more of the gaps until you can no longer see through it at all. This is why you get increasing vignetting as you get away from the centre of the lens.
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I know it and that's not what I asked. Besides this vignetting is mechanical and caused by the sides of the filter - it can easily be seen by stopping down to f/22 where the filter sides can be seen clearly.
 
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where abouts in hants are you? I have a B&W kassmann you can try if you are local to me.
 
dalex_257 said:
That would be fantastic, I am in Fleet - what about you?
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I am near Bournemouth but I do cover all up round your area for work, so could meet up on day for you to try it, I use it with my sigma 10-20 with the lee holder with 3 slots attached and only get a small amount of vignetting under about 12mm.
 
Davec223 said:
I am near Bournemouth but I do cover all up round your area for work, so could meet up on day for you to try it, I use it with my sigma 10-20 with the lee holder with 3 slots attached and only get a small amount of vignetting under about 12mm.
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Great. Let me know if you will be in my area workwise so we can meet up. Thanks for the help.

Now if any Heliopan owners would share their experience - that would be marvellous
 
I use a helliopan thin frame on a D90 with Cokin Zpro holder and remove one leaf of the filter holders mounted on the polariser with a Lee wide angle adaptor ring.No vignetting at 10 mm with a Sigma 10-20mm lens the 3rd fiter holder produces vignetting. I very rarely bother with the holder and grads with the circ polariser because it's a PITA but sometimes needs must. At 10mm the polarising effect is not even acrross the image. nb the D90 is a crop so I suppose I should say that it would equate to 15mm on full frame.
 
petehb said:
I use a helliopan thin frame on a D90 with Cokin Zpro holder and remove one leaf of the filter holders mounted on the polariser with a Lee wide angle adaptor ring.No vignetting at 10 mm with a Sigma 10-20mm lens the 3rd fiter holder produces vignetting. I very rarely bother with the holder and grads with the circ polariser because it's a PITA but sometimes needs must. At 10mm the polarising effect is not even acrross the image. nb the D90 is a crop so I suppose I should say that it would equate to 15mm on full frame.
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Thanks for sharing. If I understood correctly you are mounting polariser on a lens and then holder on a polariser (or am I getting it wrong)? I assume if that is the case then it's not a 105mm polariser. I did try the same - I have B&W 77mm one and I tried mounting that on a lens and then Lee holder on it. It sort of works (still not getting rid of them completely at 17mm) but makes it difficult to use polariser and any polyester filter in holder in front of polariser will produce weird cross polarisation effects (spectrum like) . That apparently is a known issue with gel filters and the reason why Lee and HiTech holders were mounting polariser in front of any other filters.
 
Yep polariser on lens filter holder on polariser and you are right it's not a 105mm it's a77mm and it is difficult and time consuming to get the right rotation of the polariser and the filter in the correct orientation. I have not seen any fringing like cross polarisation only the variable intensity of the polarisation across the image.
 
petehb said:
Yep polariser on lens filter holder on polariser and you are right it's not a 105mm it's a77mm and it is difficult and time consuming to get the right rotation of the polariser and the filter in the correct orientation. I have not seen any fringing like cross polarisation only the variable intensity of the polarisation across the image.
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Try one of Lee gels - ND or soft focus one (they are the most common) and point camera to the monitor.
 
Don't Lee make a wide-angle lens adapter for this?
 
HoppyUK said:
Don't Lee make a wide-angle lens adapter for this?
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I am using 77mm wide angle adapter already - all of the above said was tried with it.

This is the sample taken at 17mm as described in original post:

Lee-20110401-001.jpg
 
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Which do you mount 1st the wide angle adaptor or the polariser perhaps if you mount them in reverse order it may work I should say that the Helliopan slim circ pol. has no threads for mounting anything forward of it so it is Lee 77mm WA Helliopan Circ Pol then filters in the holder but only 2 mounting slides on the odd occaision I have used a ND grad with the circ Pol and it produces no vignetting on a Sigma 10 -20mm at 10mm. Befor I used the Lee wide Angle adapter ie the straight Cokin Z Pro ring I suffered vignetting up to about 14mm on the crop sensor of my D90 so for full frame read 15mm and 21mm in the last two examples.
 
petehb said:
Which do you mount 1st the wide angle adaptor or the polariser perhaps if you mount them in reverse order it may work I should say that the Helliopan slim circ pol. has no threads for mounting anything forward of it so it is Lee 77mm WA Helliopan Circ Pol then filters in the holder but only 2 mounting slides on the odd occaision I have used a ND grad with the circ Pol and it produces no vignetting on a Sigma 10 -20mm at 10mm. Befor I used the Lee wide Angle adapter ie the straight Cokin Z Pro ring I suffered vignetting up to about 14mm on the crop sensor of my D90 so for full frame read 15mm and 21mm in the last two examples.
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I am trying with 105mm polariser - that is mounted on Lee holder. The above photo is made with that
 
So with just the WA adaptor and holder mounted no vignetting but with the polariser slotted in the holder you get vignetting. can you not screw a polariser into the outer threads of the WA adaptor that will bring it closer to the lens. I am unfamiliar with the Lee polariser so this may not be possible and you may have to try a different make of filter prefferably a slim one to do this. There is the new Lee holder designed for use with the Nikon 12-24mm AS lens but it probably will not fit your lens.
 
Polariser is not slotted - Lee 105mm polariser is attached to the holder on top of all other filters with a special retaining ring. Even with this ring attached but no polariser screwed in - no vignetting.

petehb said:
I am unfamiliar with the Lee polariser so this may not be possible and you may have to try a different make of filter prefferably a slim one to do this.
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This is the reason for this post - to find out people's experiences using 105mm polarisers on Lee holder.
 
Posted an update into the OP. Baseline: slim Heliopan - rules :thumbs:
 
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Thanks for the update, been trying to find this info so that I can get a polariser for use on my Zeiss 21mm.

You said vignetting has gone by 19mm with 2 filter slots. Do you know what focal length it vignettes to with 3 slots? Just wondering if I'll be able to use the Heliopan with 3 slots at 21mm
 
J.D. said:
Thanks for the update, been trying to find this info so that I can get a polariser for use on my Zeiss 21mm.

You said vignetting has gone by 19mm with 2 filter slots. Do you know what focal length it vignettes to with 3 slots? Just wondering if I'll be able to use the Heliopan with 3 slots at 21mm
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Hi James,

No I don't and at the moment I only have one holder with two slots so I cannot build a third one and compare. What I have discovered however, having tried a number of lenses that the limiting focal length is different on each lens. My understanding is that it has something to do with the lens construction - true the angle of view will be the same , but the front element may be smaller, more recessed etc which will cause some lenses to vignette a lot less. For example, in my original tests with Lee polariser, it was not vignetting on 22mm on Nikkor 17-35 f/2.8 but when I tried it on Nikkor 24-120 - it was vignetting at 22mm. I didn't investigate all possibilities but having read numerous reports of people with various focal lengths does concur with what I said above.

In short, the conclusion is that you will need to test it for yourself or find someone with this Zeiss and filter setup you need to try it out.

In any case, from all the filters I have seen and tried - Heliopan slim mount one is the smallest and causes least possible amount of vignetting.
 
dalex_257 said:
Hi James,

No I don't and at the moment I only have one holder with two slots so I cannot build a third one and compare. What I have discovered however, having tried a number of lenses that the limiting focal length is different on each lens. My understanding is that it has something to do with the lens construction - true the angle of view will be the same , but the front element may be smaller, more recessed etc which will cause some lenses to vignette a lot less. For example, in my original tests with Lee polariser, it was not vignetting on 22mm on Nikkor 17-35 f/2.8 but when I tried it on Nikkor 24-120 - it was vignetting at 22mm. I didn't investigate all possibilities but having read numerous reports of people with various focal lengths does concur with what I said above.

In short, the conclusion is that you will need to test it for yourself or find someone with this Zeiss and filter setup you need to try it out.

In any case, from all the filters I have seen and tried - Heliopan slim mount one is the smallest and causes least possible amount of vignetting.
Click to expand...

Thanks, thats useful to know. I'll just have to try it out!
 
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