4x5 focus check

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Nebular89

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I just want to double check I’m not going mad. I have taken a few photos on the 4x5 that I’ve missed focus on. I think partly because I’m using a 10x loupe that I find makes it hard to focus. What’s concerning is from what I can tell they largely seem to be focused a little bit behind what I was trying to focus on, at least definitely in 2.
So I took a photo at 5.6 yesterday to try and make sure it was either on or off.
Looking at the negative with the 10x loupe what I focused on looks sharp but in the scan it looks off. I’m sure it’s just something up with the scan, I just did a quick one with my camera on a tripod, probably not on the plane as the film.
Just wanted some opinions so I know I’m not missing something.
Included a crop of the shoe by the step that I focused on and a photo through the loupe of the shoe and a bit of the background. Hard to take a photo of that with a phone!
 

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To my eye the shoe in the photo of the loupe looks on focus while the scan looks soft
 
The negative certainly looks sharper than the positive. The negative shows a tuft of grass growing out of the step that I can hardly make out in the positive.

If the 10x loupe makes things difficult (and a lower magnification is usually recommended) then perhaps you should try a really strong pair of reading glasses. In practice, that should let you get pretty close to correct focus.

There are possible camera issues (the ground glass has to be in the same plane that the film will occupy) but for the moment, try using the 10x loupe on the negative and look for detail that doesn't make it through the scan.
 
StephenM said:
The negative certainly looks sharper than the positive. The negative shows a tuft of grass growing out of the step that I can hardly make out in the positive.

If the 10x loupe makes things difficult (and a lower magnification is usually recommended) then perhaps you should try a really strong pair of reading glasses. In practice, that should let you get pretty close to correct focus.

There are possible camera issues (the ground glass has to be in the same plane that the film will occupy) but for the moment, try using the 10x loupe on the negative and look for detail that doesn't make it through the scan.
Click to expand...
I have just had a 4.5 delivered but I’m working until 7pm tonight.
I’m sure it is the scan I just wanted it confirmed. The negative looks sharp to me using the 10x loupe.
I think either tonight or tomorrow I’ll take a photo against a tape measure wide open just to set my mind at ease. I’d hate to take lots of photos when I’m away just to find the focus is slightly off on all of them. I’ve had that happen before when I fitted a new ground glass to a TLR I had.
I’m 90% sure the focusing is all down to me being new and the 10x loupe. I can see a lot of the grain of the ground glass with the 10x. Plus I just fitted a fresnel. Didn’t have to move the ground glass but hopefully I didn’t knock anything out of place
 
IIRC it can sometimes be difficult to get a 4x5 sheet completely flat, which might be an issue (though you're probably using a film holder, which I wasn't). Also there have been threads on here where folk have investigated adjusting the height of their film holders to get scan improvements.
 
ChrisR said:
IIRC it can sometimes be difficult to get a 4x5 sheet completely flat, which might be an issue (though you're probably using a film holder, which I wasn't). Also there have been threads on here where folk have investigated adjusting the height of their film holders to get scan improvements.
Click to expand...
Im using the pixilator (however it’s spelt) for the 4x5. Does a decent job, it lays on the diffuser so it’s pretty flat. I wasn’t using a copy stand so it was probably because the film wasn’t on the same plane as the camera. Plus the lens im using is the Fuji 35mm f2 which is not sharp at its closest focus. It works fine enough but the edges are soft and the centre isn’t amazing. The negative looks to be in focus so fingers crossed!
 
On one hand it’s really easy to use for a large part of the middle of the frame but if you want to focus near the edges your out of luck. Was only £10, I might well keep it
 
Nebular89 said:
Just opened the 4.5x loupe. I think I might have not read the description….
Click to expand...
Mahoosive! My Kaiser 4.5x loupe is about half that diameter. I've not seen a "square" one, so there's always an issue with the corners, I guess.
 
ChrisR said:
Mahoosive! My Kaiser 4.5x loupe is about half that diameter. I've not seen a "square" one, so there's always an issue with the corners, I guess.
Click to expand...
It’s actually good for probably the middle 3rd of the ground glass. For anything firstly central you don’t have to hold your eye up to it or get your eye dead centre. I’ve blacked out the clear plastic with electrical tape.
I did do 2 more negatives this morning and they’re sharp, up close at f5 so focusing should be fine. User error/scanning mistakes I think
 
ChrisR said:
Mahoosive! My Kaiser 4.5x loupe is about half that diameter. I've not seen a "square" one, so there's always an issue with the corners, I guess.
Click to expand...

Nebular89 said:
It’s actually good for probably the middle 3rd of the ground glass. For anything firstly central you don’t have to hold your eye up to it or get your eye dead centre. I’ve blacked out the clear plastic with electrical tape.
I did do 2 more negatives this morning and they’re sharp, up close at f5 so focusing should be fine. User error/scanning mistakes I think
Click to expand...
Just had an email from SpeedGraphic on their final clearance prices and I see that they're selling the Kaiser loupe with £20 off if that's of interest?
 
I always used a pocket folding jewellers magnifier by leech 6x for many many years without problem with numerous different large format cameras. A. Question to ask, is the focus screen the right way round? and is the Fresnel screen fitted in the right position? are any shims missing.?
Some older dark slides have different registers. MPP have three different registers. As do many cameras up to the mid 50's most more modern cameras are based on the Fidelity standard.

Another possibility is that the front standard is not exactly parallel with the back. This is often the case especially with monorails, it can be very difficult to adjust if it is out.

However the actual focussing of a large format camera was never something I had any problem with.
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
I always used a pocket folding jewellers magnifier by leech 6x for many many years without problem with numerous different large format cameras. A. Question to ask, is the focus screen the right way round? and is the Fresnel screen fitted in the right position? are any shims missing.?
Some older dark slides have different registers. MPP have three different registers. As do many cameras up to the mid 50's most more modern cameras are based on the Fidelity standard.

Another possibility is that the front standard is not exactly parallel with the back. This is often the case especially with monorails, it can be very difficult to adjust if it is out.

However the actual focussing of a large format camera was never something I had any problem with.
Click to expand...
I think it was largely user error. The last couple I’ve taken have looked sharp, I’ve yet to scan them. I’ve been using the large 4x loupe to get focus then the 10x if I want shallow depth of field.

I’ll double check the fresnel lens when I’m home, I forget which side I put against the ground glass. For reference is it the ridged side against the ground glass and the smooth side facing out towards you? And I assume which ever side has to touch the ground glass is universal with all frenel lenses and doesn’t vary between manufacturers?
 
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Nebular89 said:
I think it was largely user error. The last couple I’ve taken have looked sharp, I’ve yet to scan them. I’ve been using the large 4x loupe to get focus then the 10x if I want shallow depth of field.

I’ll double check the fresnel lens when I’m home, I forget which side I put against the ground glass. For reference is it the ridged side against the ground glass and the smooth side facing out towards you? And I assume which ever side has to touch the ground glass is universal with all frenel lenses and doesn’t vary between manufacturers?
Click to expand...
The problem with Fresnels is that there is not a standard way to fit them. Each maker has their own idea. They actually work any which way around. Rough or smooth towards the lens and behind or Infront of the focus screen. However I have never known them to be on the outside of the screen with the rough side outward. As it would be too easily scratched.
Some even have to be used with shims. You will have to ask other users of your camera.
If you read though the whole link below you will learn some of the many complications.

Fresnel lenses and ground glass focusing screens your worries answered [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

There has been a lot of chat and controversy about the use of fresnel lenses in combination with the ground glass on large format cameras in attempt to brighten the image formed on the screen thus assisting focusing and composition. I decided to do a series of experiments ion a 4x5 camera to...
www.largeformatphotography.info
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
The problem with Fresnels is that there is not a standard way to fit them. Each maker has their own idea. They actually work any which way around. Rough or smooth towards the lens and behind or Infront of the focus screen. However I have never known them to be on the outside of the screen with the rough side outward. As it would be too easily scratched.
Some even have to be used with shims. You will have to ask other users of your camera.
If you read though the whole link below you will learn some of the many complications.

Fresnel lenses and ground glass focusing screens your worries answered [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

There has been a lot of chat and controversy about the use of fresnel lenses in combination with the ground glass on large format cameras in attempt to brighten the image formed on the screen thus assisting focusing and composition. I decided to do a series of experiments ion a 4x5 camera to...
www.largeformatphotography.info
Click to expand...
I’ll double check with the maker. But mine is on the outside with the rough side in so probably fine
 
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