5D mk2 limitations for wildlife ?

malla1962 said:
And what use is a 100% crop? unless your a pixel peeper;) I never seem to print 100% crops:D I got big lenses to avoid that one.:wave:
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I agree with that. People need to be very cautious about what they are comparing when viewing at 100%, but equally you will not be able to tell much from a little webshot at 800x533 produced from an original file of 15MP and up. So what to do?

Probably a 33% crop for online viewing would be a more realistic demonstration of the likely quality available in print at 300 ppi. Even then, the arguments about differing enlargement factors would still apply, but at least the enlargement factors would be within the realms of sensibility rather than stupidity.

Just for kicks, here is a shot with my 7D and 100-400. This is slightly cropped....

20100108_134922_1778_LR.jpg



100% crop....

20100108_134922_1778_LR.jpg



For sure the 7D's pixel density can help extend "reach" when shooting a static subject from a stable position at low ISO, but for shooting faster action the probability of some shake/blur spoiling pixel level sharpness renders the extra resolution of questionable value. If you raise ISO to increase shutter speeds then you begin to replace blur with noise. Either way, the extra resolution is of questionable value when shooting action. I remember when I used to compare my 50D against my 1D3 that the 50D gave me no benefits in reach over the 1D3 when shooting BIF. From a tripod at 100 or 200 ISO, for a perched bird, it was a different story.


Here's a BIF example from the 7D and 100-400. Compared to the static shot at 200 ISO, this one is soft and noisy. I'm not complaining, but it's a fact of life that 100% crops from the 7D of high action shot at higher ISOs will not compete with static shots at low ISOs, or 100% crops from cameras with lower pixel density like the 5D2.

Uncropped....

20100131_113441_3377_LR.jpg



100% crop....

20100131_113441_3377_LR.jpg


Now let's just review against the 100% crop from the 5D2, remembering that in both shots the bird pretty much filled the frame (which means that the image captured by the 5D2 was physically larger to begin with, because the bird was 12.6m away instead of 18.1m)....

20100215_102723_1504_LR.jpg
 
grumpybadger said:
I think personally that any of the bodies will give excellent results and agree that 100% sharpness in the 7D is not always achievable. However, I tend to view it as a 10 Mpx camera with decent AF. It is the first Canon crop sensor to fundamentally change AF systems since the 20D. You can get too hung up on pixel count and not think about the other features.
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I agree with that entirely. I think the AF alone would recommend it for wildlife over the 5D. The only point I'm making is, don't expect to make full use of the 18MP with the lenses the poster has. The 7D is an excellent camera. There are some people who have bought the 7D and have been disappointed, probably largely down to unrealistic expectations. I don't particularly worry that my own camera only has 10MP!

Andy
 
Well thanks for posting the views folks. I don't really understand mtf and otehr stuff but your points about resolution make a bit of sense Andy so thanks for this.

Malla, grumpbadger, Tim thank you for the real world experience and views - I guess either would be great but i think I am leaning to the 5D as it can do the wildlife thing and if i'm understanding correctly even if I had to crop the image like a looney due to loss of 1.6 crop fov factor it would still be as good as my 400D that I hve now? - Have I understood that correctly????

I could really push the boat out and request a 500 f4 to go with my 5D2 for my birthday!!!!. I think I should try out and see how the handling feels.

One final question - iso performance, I am limited to 800 at a push on 400D, what is top iso usable in real world for 5D2 and 7D?

Thanks again for all the rplies

Bridie
 
woollyback said:
One final question - iso performance, I am limited to 800 at a push on 400D, what is top iso usable in real world for 5D2 and 7D?

Bridie
Click to expand...

That depends very much on how much you can fill the frame vs how much you need to crop, how large you want to print/display, how good you are at exposing accurately (or to the right), what sort of NR software you have and what your own personal tolerance is for noise.

Here is a shot from my 7D at 6400 ISO, processed in Lightroom....

20100115_195834_2032_LR.jpg


It's usable, I think.

Here's a wildlife shot from the 7D at 1600 ISO, also processed in Lightroom....

20100105_141107_1690_LR.jpg
 
Bridie

Try before you buy - it comes down to what you like - nothing like having it in your hands...

Tim

Nice LTT shot - I love that cheeky head tilt!
 
AndyElliott said:
Tim

Nice LTT shot - I love that cheeky head tilt!
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Cheers, Andy. 1600 ISO isn't ideal for capturing fine feather detail, but so long as you can get close to filling the frame you can get pretty decent results.
 
tdodd said:
Cheers, Andy. 1600 ISO isn't ideal for capturing fine feather detail, but so long as you can get close to filling the frame you can get pretty decent results.
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I got so fed up with the weather yesterday I resorted to shooting out the window of the conservatory onto the bird feeder with flash. I got an LTT here: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy/GardenBirds24thFeb2010#5441806715335035634 - about 20% of the original frame area - but at ISO 250 - much easier to crop that harsh at low ISOs!.

I'm hoping to get the E-5 soon (whenever the Oly finally decide to release it :bang: ) - the ISO performance should be at least as good as the current fourthirds best sensor, the GH1, which dxomark rates as almost identical performance to the 7D (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en...xOMark-review-for-the-Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH1). The pixel pitch of the 7D is practically identical to a 12MP fourthirds sensor. I then hope to be able to risk ISO 1600 a bit more often!

Andy
 
Sorry to resurrect this thread - but I now have another contender.... what about a used 1Dmk3?. Had a feel in shop and handling was great.

What would be positives / negatives of a used mk3 - what to look for etc??

How would this fit alonside 7D & 5d2??

Thanka again

Bridie
 
@Bridie....

I have a 7D, 5D2 and 1D3. My go to camera for most shooting scenarios is the 5D2, quite simply for the overall IQ. However, if the AF, frame rate or weatherproofing is inadequate for my needs then I will turn to either the 1D3 or 7D. For IQ I prefer the 1D3 over the 7D, but it is big and heavy and not terribly discrete. I often shoot with a two body setup and lugging around a 5D2 and 1D3 with L glass on both is pretty heavy going, especially with a 580EX on each as well. For such times, including vacation travel, where size and weight might be significant considerations, the 7D can take over the role of the 1D3 as my action camera.

IMHO most of the IQ advantage of the 5D2 over the 1D3 and the 1D3 over the 7D comes, quite simply, from the relative sizes of the sensors. If you have the right glass to fill the frame then the larger the sensor the better the IQ. However, if you are focal length limited and needing to crop (heavily) then that will pretty much level the playing field between them. If you can shoot at low ISO from a stable support (tripod, stabilised lens or hand held at sufficient shutter speed) then the 7D should edge out the other two cameras in terms of usable pixels on the subject. At higher ISOs the per pixel noise of the 7D will nullify the reach gain.

If I was asked to choose just one camera as my only camera, or even two from the three, it would be an extremely hard choice to make. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. The best choice depends on the exact shooting scenario. One size does not fit all.
 
tdodd said:
@Bridie....

I have a 7D, 5D2 and 1D3. My go to camera for most shooting scenarios is the 5D2, quite simply for the overall IQ. However, if the AF, frame rate or weatherproofing is inadequate for my needs then I will turn to either the 1D3 or 7D. For IQ I prefer the 1D3 over the 7D, but it is big and heavy and not terribly discrete. I often shoot with a two body setup and lugging around a 5D2 and 1D3 with L glass on both is pretty heavy going, especially with a 580EX on each as well. For such times, including vacation travel, where size and weight might be significant considerations, the 7D can take over the role of the 1D3 as my action camera.

IMHO most of the IQ advantage of the 5D2 over the 1D3 and the 1D3 over the 7D comes, quite simply, from the relative sizes of the sensors. If you have the right glass to fill the frame then the larger the sensor the better the IQ. However, if you are focal length limited and needing to crop (heavily) then that will pretty much level the playing field between them. If you can shoot at low ISO from a stable support (tripod, stabilised lens or hand held at sufficient shutter speed) then the 7D should edge out the other two cameras in terms of usable pixels on the subject. At higher ISOs the per pixel noise of the 7D will nullify the reach gain.

If I was asked to choose just one camera as my only camera, or even two from the three, it would be an extremely hard choice to make. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. The best choice depends on the exact shooting scenario. One size does not fit all.
Click to expand...

Really good summary there Tim :thumbs:
 
they all have there + & - points
I loved my 40d but now i have the 5dmkII and still getting used to it. It may be slow but some of the cropped images on here do NOT do it justice.
have a look at tthis persons pictures http://www.flickr.com/photos/urban_jungle/ you willhave to click each picture to find which camera it took with but lot's with the 100-400 with a 1.4x added.
some fantastic stuff on there her owl shots are so clear even at high iso
 
Thanks for the great post Bridie, it certainly has caused some interest and proved to be most helpful with my own upgrade dilemmas.

I have a 40D at present and initially planned to go for the 7D as that seemed to be the answer to my prayers, but the more I have looked into it the less sure I have become, so much so that I am now considering a used 1D Mark iii, although I am still a little concerned that might be a jump too far in terms of actually being able to use the thing!
 
Folks,

This upgrade thingy is a nightmare, thank you for all the comments.

I think I will plump for the 5D2 and let my dad upgrade to the 7D then I have the best of both worlds.

I will keep you posted

Thanks again

Bridie
 
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