A Brompton - tarted up a little

[lightshipman]

folded - on my study chair

The Brompton has a folding left pedal - new lightweight pedals have been fitted to the Bike so I just remove the left pedal when I put it in the bag

Really small when folded - apparently it will fit in the overhead in a plane and can be taken on an airline??

I work at sea, small workboat, in port most nights so mine lives in my cabin, very handy for the supermarket every other day with the front bag. Do,like the way this is upgraded, very tasteful, though you can keep the big chain ring.

 

[BillN_33]

Bill,

If anyone does, it is likely to be in the listings of this Taiwanese company, who do lots of weird additions and spares for all kinds of bikes, but specifically, Brompton. If you are any good at reading Traditional Mandarin then the site is a lot easier to swallow. (Something I learnt a few years ago as a 'hobby/pastime). They have been around a while.

http://www.bikefun.com.tw/admin/product/front/product.php?upid=2&page=2

Brompton specific forum….yes there is at least one. I think the London Brompton Club used to have one, otherwise try YACF

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=11.0

http://www.londonbromptonclub.com

A few others that there used to be active seem to have faded with Yahoo Groups but I am sure that there are at least some others still active. Ask on YACF…someone there will know or try contacting David Henshaw owner of, and editor at A to B magazine who is well known for being a Brompton affectionado and former editor of The Folding Society magazine before it became A to B.

or ask Brompton themselves.

Finally, the man who has done more unusual and dramatic Brompton reconfigurations than anyone I can think of is Steve Parry. He would certainly know or be able to reconfigure your Brompton to accommodate something unusual.

http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/sp.html

Your constraints on a Brompton are inevitably its 'design' which makes the chain-line so fundamental. Plus of course your drop out width. My own has a totally unique fold to allow the CF chainset to fit…..

A few years back, Brompton used to do a kit for converting a Sturmey Archer three speed to a five speed that utilised a different chain pusher. Since then the design of the back end has changed as have the variety of gears available.

Thanks shreds - just what I need - I can spend most of today looking through the stuff

 

[mickledore]

Talking of Brookes saddles^^^^
My gravel bike is made of rigid aluminium. Not much give at all. The supplied saddle was cutting me in two. I spotted an almost new B65 saddle in an Oxfam shop for £20. Snapped their hand off I did. Makes a world of differece on rough tracks. So the Chris Froome wannabees give me some funny loos but who cares?

 

[BillN_33]

I have been looking around to see if the Brompton "chain pusher" used on the 2 speed Bike can operate 3 cogs - I saw an image on the net of a Brompton with three sprockets at the rear ....... and what looked like the usual "chain pusher" but machined in alloy rather than the Brompton plastic.

any idea if it is feasible to effectively have a 3 cog derailleur rather than the SA three or 5 speed Hub?


Guy in Singapore - this one seems to use Brompton plastic bits so it must be the 2 Speed "chain pusher"

There does not seem to be a Brompton specific Forum on the web

I seem to have found (a) solution

1). 3 sprockets, (and spacers) [maybe 12t, 15t and 17t - 17 is the biggest that the Brompton will take] from a Shimano 10 speed cassette - obviously "thinner" than the normal sprockets used by Brompton
2). Modify the Brompton 3 or 6 speed "chain pusher" (dérailleur) slightly - fitting a small spacer to push it out a little further - the 3 or 6 speed chain pusher is mean't to work with a SA hub and only two sprockets on the rear
3). A new "10 speed" chain, (1/2" X 11/128") - narrower than the normal to work with the thiner sprockets - hopefully the front Chainring will be OK??
4). cut another groove in the 2 speed handle bar changer - so that there are three "click" positions

experts - do you see any problems?

I'll (may) have a go in a few weeks once I have been able to pick up the bits

any ideas on a front 2 Chainring dérailleur - the diameter of the Brompton tubes is about 45mm I think?

 

[bass_junkie83]

Very nice!
I have a Brompton myself, but much more standard and a hell of a lot dirtier!

 

[BillN_33]

Very nice!
I have a Brompton myself, but much more standard and a hell of a lot dirtier!

Thanks Dave - how do you find it?

Mine's a recent acquisition - I reckon that I will "tinker" with it as much as ride it - I may get another to ride as my wife (wants?) one - well maybe not but it will be an excuse to buy another

 

[bass_junkie83]

Thanks Dave - how do you find it?

Mine's a recent acquisition - I reckon that I will "tinker" with it as much as ride it - I may get another to ride as my wife (wants?) one - well maybe not but it will be an excuse to buy another

It's great. Mine is an S6L and have had it for nearly two years now. Previously I had a Tern as I couldn't justify the price of a Brompton and in my mind I was already paying more than enough for what was essentially a child bike with a hinge in the middle. Oh how wrong I was, it rode well but wasn't built to last, should have bought the Brompton first time around and saved a lot of money!

Mine gets used daily for my commute, just a couple of miles either side of a train journey.

 

[steverob68]

welds

Technically they are brazed, not welded (unless it is a Ti frame which they do weld)

 

[shreds]

Brompton restrict which of their framebuilders are allowed to produce the raw metal / lacquered finished versions as the brazing is so visible and of course beautifully highlighted. Their QA nowadays is also pretty rigid to minimise any failures of any of their output.

The only main bits of a Brompton that are produced as Titanium are the rear triangle, plus the seat pin/post which I think they have regrettably now dropped, to produce only a lightweight aluminium version. Its only marginally heavier. Myself and numerous others have pleaded with Brompton to consider more lightweight components and design but they remain fixed on the steel mainframe for rigidity and longevity reasons, although I am sure they could do something much lighter in Ti or Al without compromising their ideals. When you use a Brompton in anger on Londons city streets and transport network, the ability to carry it easily is advantageous and would appeal I know to those less robustly non weightlifting riders.

 

[BillN_33]

Just acquired a H6L Black, (All Black) Edition

 

[BillN_33]

Maybe a "nano" electric assist conversion for this Bike ....... seems a relatively easy DIY job which will cost about £800/£900 and you can get maybe up to 30 miles using 2 x 4Ah 36w Bosch power tool batteries, (£100 each)

http://www.nanoelectricbikes.co.uk/home

not too bad when you think that the Brompton Electric prices will start at £2,600 - (single speed)

 

[BillN_33]

Spent a couple of hours this morning coating the appropriate bits with ACF-50 and it now looks lovely, (ACF-50 - keep it off the edge of the rims, brakes blocks and tyres)

Hopefully I have managed to acquire another M6L Black Edition but in orange and black but with black rims, spokes and hubs ........ so I should be able to make this one completely black, well almost .........

In a way they are "works of art" as far as the design is concerned and the quality of the components is good ........ although if they used some of the Jap stuff it would make a difference but it would then not be a Brompton

Disk brakes would look great - but!! - Kinetics do them but at a price as they supply a new rear triangle and new front forks etc.

(I know I need to weed and get my verticals in line and maybe use a little tyre black)

 

[BillN_33]

Just added another - one out, (the S1E) and one in, this M6L Black Edition Orange
new model with new gear changers incorporated in Brakes, and Marathon tyres

aftermarket, MTB Bars and riser - replacing M Bars

Ergon GP 3 small grips, replacing Brompton foam grips

 

[CaptainAverage]

Just added another - one out, (the S1E) and one in, this M6L Black Edition Orange
new model with new gear changers incorporated in Brakes, and Marathon tyres

Lovely! I’ve yet to try the new shifters, how do you rate them? If you have one, could you upload a pic of the bike folded? I’m keen to see how your bar arrangement sits when folded as I’m considering a similar mod to my own M bars.

 

[BillN_33]

The Black Bike is a H6L - H Bike has the little extra piece, around 10 mm, just above the head stock - see the chart below
The Orange Bike is a M6L

Wider Bars - On the Black Bike - my initial feelings are that the Bike certainly rides a lot better than with the H/M Brompton bars ........ and better than the S ...... riding position means you can put more weight on the front end with more control with the wider bars and a lot less flexing, (I did not notice any on 2 hour ride yesterday), of the front stem and bars........just more solid

On the Orange M Bike the new wider bars do touch/hit the ground and need shortening so that the fold works as normal - probably by 10mm each end - put them on, check them and cut the bars when they are on the Bike and recheck etc. - (I don't have a before image, but the left Ergon just rubbed on the ground)

On the Black H Bike - no problems but you have to position the controls so that they do not hit the wheel rims/tyres when the Bike is folded

I've fitted the wider bars to the Black Bike, (H6L) - I took them off the Orange Bike, M6L as this is the latest model, (11/17 Build date) and the M bars have been modified from the earlier M models, there is less bend and they are not at big - same width but not as high. My wife will ride this Bike and she is happy with the stock bars

Wider Bars fitted to Black Bike, H6L

Here's the usual comparison chart to show the differences in height - the M is the pre 2017 M - as I indicated the M bars changed in 2017 and are not as "high" - they are now say just "2 sections" (rather than 3), on the following chart

Comparison of gear changers - I'm happy with both - not sure which I prefer - but I have only used the new ones for a shortish ride

 

[boliston]

i've been commuting on a bromton since 2013 and they are very handy as i don't need to use the company bike shelter as it just goes under my desk - i've got 2 m6r bikes and the original idea was that the oh would use one and me the other but it's really just me that uses them now - one polar blue the other hot pink! people at work think the bike changes colour with temperature as i said it has photochromic paint - i managed to come off it on black ice a few weeks ago and broke my elbow so it will be a few weeks before i can use the bromptons again
http://www.boliston.com/2013/08/19/putting-the-bromptons-through-their-paces/

 

[BillN_33]

next up is replacing the pedals - either foldable or removables

Wellgo or MSK Ezy

 

[ancient_mariner]

Time ATAC.

 

[BillN_33]

Time ATAC.

clipless pedals on a Brompton?? and clippitery clopperty walking ......... not really my scene

 

[ancient_mariner]

clipless pedals on a Brompton?? and clippitery clopperty walking ......... not really my scene

Fair enough. I loved the first one you posted, and the Times might well have suited it, but this latest beastie looks like it needs flat plastic pedals for riding in sandals and socks.

 

[CaptainAverage]

Thank you for the bar pics.
I used the MKS ezy range for a number of years but was never satisfied overall and the solution always gnawed at my inner engineer. The main pro was using pedals that could be switched between bikes and removed/swapped between flats and clipless when required. The downsides were that the pedals wore out quickly (especially the bearings despite frequent lube), slight flex in the joint to the crank when pedalling hard and the sockets on cranks needed frequent maintenance. I’ve swapped to Time ATACs now and unbolt the left pedal on the rare occasion when needed. I’d honestly stick with the standard Brompton offering if you’re keeping flats, perhaps swapping the right pedal for something of higher quality if you prefer. If you don’t often need to fold the left pedal then fit anything you like and break out the Allen key for less than a minute when needed.

 

[BillN_33]

Fair enough. I loved the first one you posted, and the Times might well have suited it, but this latest beastie looks like it needs flat plastic pedals for riding in sandals and socks.

next project - when I sell a thing or two to release some "hobby cash" is to replicate the first Bike - the one on the first posting, but with a RAW Black lacquer Bike - starting with a S1E Lightweight, (Ti forks and rear triangle)

the things that look "cheap and poor" on the Brompton are the Chainset and cranks, pedals and seat - the brakes have improved and you can get a Ti seat post ..... the bars are cheap and again the way to go is maybe Ti or Carbon ...... the brake lever could be better as could the handlebar controls for the 3 speed SA and 2 speed derailleur ...... the derailleur parts look cheap and plastic ..... again can be replaced with machined metal stuff ....... the SA 3 speed is what it is ... the wheels aren't bad .......but even the rear sprockets could be replaced with lighter Shimano cogs

most of the replacement stuff is made in China or Taiwan

The Black and Orange Bikes are for us to use in France in the summer ...... mainly taking the Bikes to the Atlantic coast by car and using the cycle paths

 

[bass_junkie83]

I have done a bit of work on mine, need to finish off this weekend.

I find the bracketry that holds the rear mudguard is not really up to the job when the bike is folded as the weight of the bike is transfered through the fragile plastic mudguard. I have cracked a couple, particularly when slinging it into storage spaces on the train.

A pair of luggage wheels replace the silly little jockey wheel making it much more and you can actually roll it as intended which you normally need the full luggage rack for.

It's a bit agricultural, if you are into weight saving you might want to look away.
But, it's proof of concept and if after a bit of testing I am still happy with it, I might design something a bit more refined and get a local fabrication company to make a neater job of it.

 

[CaptainAverage]

@bass_junkie83 It’ll certainly protect the mudguard! It’s an irritating and common problem with the rear mudguard on ‘L’ models as you say. I admitted defeat and fitted the (annoyingly expensive) rear rack to mine, even though I have no use for a rack but use the excellent front luggage system. The rack protects the mudguard, gives a sturdier platform when folded and when fitted with easy wheels can be wheeled around better. Your solution certainly has these merits in spades at a fraction of the cost of the rack. As you say, perhaps some room for refinement but I’d do that yourself rather than give the work to another, as the cost will escalate towards the cost of a second hand rack and mudguard (you’re probably aware the rear mudguard on a rack model if different the normal mudguard). Alternatively, if you have use for a rack you could build a platform to the frame-mounted wheels from your already sturdy support and have something capable of transporting a big sack of spuds!

 

[BillN_33]

@bass_junkie83 It’ll certainly protect the mudguard! It’s an irritating and common problem with the rear mudguard on ‘L’ models as you say. I admitted defeat and fitted the (annoyingly expensive) rear rack to mine, even though I have no use for a rack but use the excellent front luggage system. The rack protects the mudguard, gives a sturdier platform when folded and when fitted with easy wheels can be wheeled around better. Your solution certainly has these merits in spades at a fraction of the cost of the rack. As you say, perhaps some room for refinement but I’d do that yourself rather than give the work to another, as the cost will escalate towards the cost of a second hand rack and mudguard (you’re probably aware the rear mudguard on a rack model if different the normal mudguard). Alternatively, if you have use for a rack you could build a platform to the frame-mounted wheels from your already sturdy support and have something capable of transporting a big sack of spuds!

I suppose many buy the Rack - £80 and then fork out for two new sets of bigger wheels, (£60) to keep the back end off the floor when rolling it.
All "Brompton" extra bits are expensive and the aftermarket ones even more so.

As I said above quite a few of the exterior parts are really at the cheap end quality-wise and my own view is that Brompton should improve these by using Shimano or similar stuff as I am sure the pedals, brakes etc., are not made by Brompton but sub contracted out to suppliers, (maybe Far East - as I read somewhere that the pedals are made by Wellgo)
OK the Frame and paintwork is UK ...... 'Made in England" - but is the rest of the Bike

 

[bass_junkie83]

@bass_junkie83 As you say, perhaps some room for refinement but I’d do that yourself rather than give the work to another, as the cost will escalate towards the cost of a second hand rack and mudguard (you’re probably aware the rear mudguard on a rack model if different the normal mudguard). Alternatively, if you have use for a rack you could build a platform to the frame-mounted wheels from your already sturdy support and have something capable of transporting a big sack of spuds!

Fortunately I have a mate who owns a fabrication company and owes me a few favours. It could also be useful to refine it with small scale production in mind, with what people are willing to pay for Brompton accessories it's a tempting thing to get into. Obviously a titanium version at 5 times the price would have to follow.

I suppose many buy the Rack - £80 and then fork out for two new sets of bigger wheels, (£60) to keep the back end off the floor when rolling it.
All "Brompton" extra bits are expensive and the aftermarket ones even more so.

Yep, it's not a cheap or simple swap if you decide you want to add a rack to an L bike also needing a new mudguard. The fundamental design and workings of the bike is great, but as you say, the fitment and interchangeability of some of the components leaves a lot to be desired.

All back together and working now, along with a good clean and service of the rest of the bike. All the critical parts (wheels and fixing points) are in the right place so with it on the bike I may now start thinking about a more refined v2.0.

But for now, it's painted up so looking slightly better, and looks aside I am already enjoying being able to roll it around with ease, and also simply having my rear mudguard back as it was teaming it down this morning!

 

[BillN_33]

latest additions - kickstand - took me ages to find one - bought it from the Far East - unfortunately they only had silver, I wanted black

needs to be Brompton specific so that it does not interfere with the fold or cycle pump

The wider bars are a bit too wide - I need to trim them back

next to change will be the pedals - probably Wellgo QR