Analogue Printing

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Hi,
I'm new to this site so what I'm asking is probably answered somewhere! but I can't find it.
Are there any shops that still offer analogue prints from 35mm i.e Dev & Print not Dev, Scan & Print. The reason I ask is the quality of the (Colour) scans & prints from scanned negs is poor compared to say the old BonusPrint Dev & print 36 exp on 6x4. I have found a few that will do hand printed enlargements direct from film but none that offer the old dev & print service?
 
Do you mean print in the darkroom? as I would have thought most labs use some sort of inkjet printers esp for very large prints.
 
I think you'll find virtually all labs that offer a print service (including probably the old bonus print service) will have digitised the negative and then printed that to c-type. Scanners have been around in industry for a long long time now. The hours involved in hand printing 6x4s of an entire roll would be a massive cost. Most labs in todays digital world simply include copies of the digital files they print from as part of the package hence you get the dev, scan and print. The alternative really is a hand made, darkroom printed contact sheet from which you would select individual images for hand printing. The Photo Parlour in Nottingham will do any & all of that for you afaik.
 
I think you'll find virtually all labs that offer a print service (including probably the old bonus print service) will have digitised the negative and then printed that to c-type. Scanners have been around in industry for a long long time now. The hours involved in hand printing 6x4s of an entire roll would be a massive cost. Most labs in todays digital world simply include copies of the digital files they print from as part of the package hence you get the dev, scan and print. The alternative really is a hand made, darkroom printed contact sheet from which you would select individual images for hand printing. The Photo Parlour in Nottingham will do any & all of that for you afaik.
Yes you are probably right about the cost, the old printing method for say a 24exp 35mm film was done using daylight working machines and it took minutes to print the whole film at 6x4 for example which is why they were not expensive. Now as you say they would have to be done on a standard enlarger. I was hoping there maybe a few of the daylight machines around & in use. My issue is that the scanners in the labs now are not up to producing the the same quality
 
My issue is that the scanners in the labs now are not up to producing the the same quality
Could it be a case of you get what you pay for? Even most reasonable domestic scanners are capable of resolutions that exceed the "resolution" of the film grain.
 
Dan at The Photo Parlour is probably your answer, although I’m sure there are a few similar set-ups across the UK.

You need someone who’s doing it for the love of the craft, not a button pusher in a high street shop.

I’m a member of the Photo Parlour, so I see some of Dan’s prints, both of his own work and occasionally stuff he’s doing for other people. He can make great prints from my negatives, so far better than I can.
 
Dan at The Photo Parlour is probably your answer, although I’m sure there are a few similar set-ups across the UK.

You need someone who’s doing it for the love of the craft, not a button pusher in a high street shop.

I’m a member of the Photo Parlour, so I see some of Dan’s prints, both of his own work and occasionally stuff he’s doing for other people. He can make great prints from my negatives, so far better than I can.

Now why have I never heard of this place before? It appears that they dev colour 5 x 4 sheets for £3 a pop, very reasonable.
 
Could it be a case of you get what you pay for? Even most reasonable domestic scanners are capable of resolutions that exceed the "resolution" of the film grain.
Yes you're right, that's why I'm looking for an analogue service from the past but it seems the nearest will be a contact sheet and selected prints as Simon said.
You need a very large scan to match film res which are expensive.
 
Dan at The Photo Parlour is probably your answer, although I’m sure there are a few similar set-ups across the UK.

You need someone who’s doing it for the love of the craft, not a button pusher in a high street shop.

I’m a member of the Photo Parlour, so I see some of Dan’s prints, both of his own work and occasionally stuff he’s doing for other people. He can make great prints from my negatives, so far better than I can.
I'll have a look thanks
 
Yes you are probably right about the cost, the old printing method for say a 24exp 35mm film was done using daylight working machines and it took minutes to print the whole film at 6x4 for example which is why they were not expensive. Now as you say they would have to be done on a standard enlarger. I was hoping there maybe a few of the daylight machines around & in use. My issue is that the scanners in the labs now are not up to producing the the same quality
Even those daylight minlabs have been digital for a long time. The first Fuji Frontier came out in 1996, and everyone was using them or their equivalents within a few years. They still printed on real light-sensitive photographic paper (c-type) that was developed and fixed in the normal way, but this was done with a laser system from a scanned image of the negative. Used properly, this was an improvement rather than a step back (at the time, I would seek out places that used a Frontier rather than the previous generation of minilabs). The operator could fix significant exposure and colour issues on a screen without having to see the final print. A well-run machine could and still can produce excellent prints. I suspect you just need to find a better lab. If you doubt the quality of the scans, have a look at the high resolution ('large') samples here:


The Frontier and Noritsu shown were originally built for use with these companies' minilabs. FilmDev only operate the scanning components, but there are still plenty of labs that have the full setup for machine prints (e.g. Ag Photo Lab have a Noritsu).
 
Thanks Retune, I will take a look. I operated Crosfield drum scanners for many years and i vaguely remember Fuji & Noritsu coming into the market when DTP started. I stopped photography in about '94 until a couple of years ago hence not knowing where to go for a good lab. They all make very good claims for themselves. Suck it and see I think
 
Now why have I never heard of this place before? It appears that they dev colour 5 x 4 sheets for £3 a pop, very reasonable.

It's a genuinely incredible space. So lucky that i live nearby. Dan really knows his stuff and genuinely cares about what he does. I dont think there's many places that still offer a community RA4 darkroom these days which is something very special, and only a handful of places still running dip & dunk c41 rather than scratchy minilabs.

Yes you're right, that's why I'm looking for an analogue service from the past but it seems the nearest will be a contact sheet and selected prints as Simon said.
You need a very large scan to match film res which are expensive.

I suspect whoever is providing your scans is poor. You really dont need anything special to get a good 6x4 print from 35mm film - if anything most scanners are capable of holding more 'data' in both the highlights and shadows than the traditional light > ra4 process would. The actual printing part (ie, light exposing paper, ra4 dev, blix, wash, dry) is the same, it's just that the paper is exposed by digital lasers rather than light passing through a negative. Afaik, there was a period where you could get 'digital enlargers' which were a kind of inbetween although i wouldnt think there's anywhere using those nowadays.
 
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