Aperture settings for group shots

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joescrivens

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So when you are taking a shot of 4 or more people do you have a basic rule you apply for setting the right aperture to get the correct DOF to make sure everyones face is in focus yet the background is still out of focus?

I find it's hard to tell because the peoples faces can all be on a different plane etc, wondered if people have a set of rules they apply
 
I don't generally shoot people, but I suspect that's actually rather a hard one to answer, as a lot is going to depend on other factors, such as how far away you are from them, focal length (not sure on whether that has an effect on the DOF I don't remember, although it does affect working distance).
 
Sure, I can see it being a hard one to answer too, but I just wondered if people have a rough system for focal lengths and number of people without having to look at dof charts
 
What about DOF Preview ?? I used that on a family shot recently...
 
How exactly did you use it though? Does it work in live view mode, so can you zoom in and around everyones face to make sure they are all equally as sharp?
 
Or you could "cheat" and use A-DEP mode [assuming the 7D has it] which will automatically select an appropriate apperture to ensure all the selected focal points are within the DOF.
 
If in doubt use the 'stop-down' button to preview your DoF at the selected aperture.
 
joescrivens said:
How exactly did you use it though? Does it work in live view mode, so can you zoom in and around everyones face to make sure they are all equally as sharp?
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I can't say I've tried it in Liveview, but I suspect it would work... It stops the lens down, and lets you see what you're gonna get... of course with the lens stopped down, the image darkens...
 
Deckard said:
Or you could "cheat" and use A-DEP mode [assuming the 7D has it] which will automatically select an appropriate apperture to ensure all the selected focal points are within the DOF.
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interesting, tell me more. I always use single point AF, does this work in Av or Tv mode or does the camera need to be in auto for this to happen?
 
jgs001 said:
I can't say I've tried it in Liveview, but I suspect it would work... It stops the lens down, and lets you see what you're gonna get... of course with the lens stopped down, the image darkens...
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I've tried this before but I dont really see how it helps, for example if there are 5 faces, i want to zoom in to see if they are actually focussed or not, from the normal composition of 5 peoples faces all in the frame how can you see enough detail using this method?
 
joescrivens said:
interesting, tell me more. I always use single point AF, does this work in Av or Tv mode or does the camera need to be in auto for this to happen?
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I'm the same, it's telling that we all rarely use this mode! On my 450D it's the last choice on the mode selection dial. If you select it then the camera will automatically choose which focal points can achieve focus and choose an aperture that includes them all in the DOF.

This can work ok, but it's a kind of auto mode, so there's a danger that the camera may pick a focus point that you didn't want. However, it's probably worth a look at if you've never tried it before and is probably much more sophisticated on the 7D with its multitude of focal points [only 9 on the 450D].
 
A quick Google reveals that the 7D doesn't have this feature [as it is a bit "beginnerish" anyway], so you'll need to stick with some of the measures the other posters have mentioned.
 
Deckard said:
I'm the same, it's telling that we all rarely use this mode! On my 450D it's the last choice on the mode selection dial. If you select it then the camera will automatically choose which focal points can achieve focus and choose an aperture that includes them all in the DOF.

This can work ok, but it's a kind of auto mode, so there's a danger that the camera may pick a focus point that you didn't want. However, it's probably worth a look at if you've never tried it before and is probably much more sophisticated on the 7D with its multitude of focal points [only 9 on the 450D].
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just read this

While prior Canon's had a dedicated click stop on the exposure mode dial for A-Dep, which attempted to provide automatic depth of field exposure structuring, we think they finally woke up to the factoid that somewhere between zero and none of Canon photographers ever used the feature. Now it is gone, but completely forgotten.
 
Arkady said:
If in doubt use the 'stop-down' button to preview your DoF at the selected aperture.
Click to expand...

Ok just tried this with some ornaments, I seriously cannot tell from a normal composition whether the face at the back is in focus as much as the one in the front, if I use live view and zoom in it can work, so is this what you do? Or do you just have amazing eyesight to be able to detect sharpness from within the viewfinder?
 
joescrivens said:
Ok just tried this with some ornaments, I seriously cannot tell from a normal composition whether the face at the back is in focus as much as the one in the front, if I use live view and zoom in it can work, so is this what you do? Or do you just have amazing eyesight to be able to detect sharpness from within the viewfinder?
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I can...my eyesight certainly isn't as good as it used to be, but maybe I'm just used to using film cameras that had really dark, coarse viewfinders... with the D3 I find it's a doddle...
I don't look at the faces, I pick obvious areas within the frame at a similar distance to the extremes of the area I want in acceptable focus...
 
With 4 people, I think F5.6 is acceptable but F8 would be ideal.

and position the people at the side of the pictures slightly more forward than the people in the middle
 
As a general rule of thumb, I use f4 for single people, 5.6 for two/three and f8 for larger groups.
 
depends on distance and focal length you are using

i used f3.2 at around 6-8 metres with a 36mm equivalent lends

with a wide-ish lens anything over f4 should be ok

the thing is not to waste dof on un-necessary air or not important backgrounds...unless that is your requirement...people and mountains sort of thing
 
joescrivens said:
So when you are taking a shot of 4 or more people do you have a basic rule you apply for setting the right aperture to get the correct DOF to make sure everyones face is in focus yet the background is still out of focus?

I find it's hard to tell because the peoples faces can all be on a different plane etc, wondered if people have a set of rules they apply
Click to expand...

Consider using Depth of Field AutoExposure if your camera has it, it will be marked as DEP or A-DEP on the mode dial. Consult the manual for how to use the mode!

EDIT: Sorry, I've just read up the thread... 7D doesn't have it.
 
trencheel303 said:
Consider using Depth of Field AutoExposure if your camera has it, it will be marked as DEP or A-DEP on the mode dial. Consult the manual for how to use the mode!

EDIT: Sorry, I've just read up the thread... 7D doesn't have it.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't also sounds like it's an auto mode type thing and that's a big no no in my books
 
If you've got an iPhone or Windows-based phone download a DOF calculator for it, there's lots out there, very useful for many situations including this one.

Otherwise use an online calculator to make a cheat sheet for your common lenses/distances at various apertures.
 
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