Calibration/exposure issues on iMac

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firstglance

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Jess
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I've recently switched over from a PC to an iMac, and totally love it. However, I'm having some problems getting my screen calibration to match my prints and I was hoping you guys might have some words of wisdom.

About a week ago, with my iMac shiny and new, I got this picture printed off:

3500217373_f168d9e45f.jpg


It looked perfectly fine on screen, but came back far darker in print. I had a nose around various forums and found that it's a common problem with Macs, because the screen is SO bright - even at it's lowest setting, it's not dark enough. I've downloaded a program called DarkAdapted X, which has more control over gamma and such, and by setting the screen at 70% Brightness, that image up there now matches what I have in print.

To get that top picture to look the way it did before I adjusted the screen (i.e., lighter), I've had to mess with the curves in PS, and this is the closest I can get:

3500217379_a85cfbbf44.jpg


Thing is, I feel like this second version looks very washed out, especially if I put my screen back the way it was. Which I shouldn't, because I know it's too bright.

I'm just wary because I post to my blog and I worry that I'm going to be putting images that are too bright on there, because I'm having to dull the screen so much for print... is that completely redundant? I mean, if the screen was too bright in the first place, doesn't that mean my original picture was far too light?

I hope this makes some sense!
 
You need to re calibrate your printer so your prints match your screen. Also handy to start by calibrating your screen. For this you will need a Syder or similar device. Then try downloading a colour chart which includes skintones and create a profile for your printer. Do this using Adobe gamma settings. If you cant find a chart on the net let me know and I'll email you one.
 
I'm no expert, but i assume you are having the picture's "photo printed" on photo paper, and not inkjet printed? I always find that this method yields darker results than expected, and so i always brighten up my photos prior to printing in this way, which is obviously frustrating. My screen is properly calibrated and when printing using a profiled inkjet printer my results match my screen, so changing my screen calibration to match "photo printing" results would not be a solution; I would be interested if anyone has an explanation.
 
snapzz said:
Doesnt matter if your printer is local or using a lab. You still need to calibrate to your output. Ask the lab to send you a test print as your experiencing problems.Although if using a pro sevice shouldnt they be correcting?
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That's what I presumed. I'll give them a call tomorrow (as today's a bank holiday) and see what they suggest. But I didn't have this problem with my PC and have always used the same calibration system and lab.

I don't mind having to lighten my pictures up before printing, I just worry about how they look on screen for the sake of my website and blog.
 
rogan200 said:
I'm no expert, but i assume you are having the picture's "photo printed" on photo paper, and not inkjet printed? I always find that this method yields darker results than expected, and so i always brighten up my photos prior to printing in this way, which is obviously frustrating. My screen is properly calibrated and when printing using a profiled inkjet printer my results match my screen, so changing my screen calibration to match "photo printing" results would not be a solution; I would be interested if anyone has an explanation.
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Yes, that's right - they're printed onto photo paper, not inkjet printed. I know that my screen is properly calibrated, it was just too bright... but now I've adjusted that issue with this DarkAdapted program I'm concerned how my pictures look on other monitors that haven't been darkened for the sake of printing.

If that makes sense!
 
I know what you mean... ie me for one dont know how dark that image you got meant to be but looking on my screen it looks great and i have not tweaked my settings at all
 
firstglance said:
That's what I presumed. I'll give them a call tomorrow (as today's a bank holiday) and see what they suggest. But I didn't have this problem with my PC and have always used the same calibration system and lab.

I don't mind having to lighten my pictures up before printing, I just worry about how they look on screen for the sake of my website and blog.
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Different machine, different graphics all play a part. Calibrating your screen is just the first step towards a starting point. If you give me your email address I'll send you a colour chart. Get your lab to print this then adjust your machine to match the print. Save the profile and make sure its loaded when you turn the machine on. Everything should then be ok.
 
I think that calibrating to a print is a bad idea unless you know for certain what the printer is doing - even then you're only calibrated in isolation to that printer. Generally you don't calibrate to an output device but to a known standard and then use profiles to translate image data from one device to another.

Getting a h/w device to a properly calibrating the screen is the only way you can solve the problem, anything else is going to lead to problems elsewhere in the workflow.
 
pxl8 said:
I think that calibrating to a print is a bad idea unless you know for certain what the printer is doing - even then you're only calibrated in isolation to that printer. Generally you don't calibrate to an output device but to a known standard and then use profiles to translate image data from one device to another.
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Dont think I entirely agree with what you say but when matching to a print then save the profile not the same? If out putting to several devices ie different labs with different equipment or printers(Agfa or Fuji) then you will need seperate profiles for each (unless by chance they are all a good match.).
 
The point of calibrating and profiling your monitor means you don't have to worry about the output device. The whole idea of Colour Management is to make the system Device Independent.

It really is not as simple as making a couple of tweeks to try and match one machine to another. Been there :done that: got the T shirt ( and the grief)

Using my calibrated monitor, I can output to either of my Inkjet printers, send the image to a pro Lab and know that what I see is what I get. I don't have to ring up the lab and ask what printer they'll be using.

Having different set ups for different printers was how things were in the bad old days, and trust me it was a nightmare.

However in this case using a piece of software to solve the problem in the short term may be acceptable. Bear in mind that a calibration device such as the Huey only costs about £70.
 
I'm sorry.. I'm kind of missing what the advice is here. I use the sRGB profile, which is what my lab uses. I calibrate my monitor and match the gamma and temperature settings. I don't really understand what it is I'm meant to do to fix this. Should I do the colour chart thing? Should I continue to make my screen darker?
 
Maybe I'm just overtired but I've reread all the replies here and I'm none the wiser!
 
Try this link and see if it helps:
http://www.displaycalibration.com/

If the blacks are black and the whites are white your monitor should be ok.Just remember calibrating your monitor is only like setting it up to an "industry standard" However most labs (no matter what make of machine) should be close to your screen and if using a pro lab should be tweeking. After all thats what your paying for. If your prints are still coming back wrong then then ask your lab for a profile or match it yourself.
 
firstglance said:
Yes, that's right - they're printed onto photo paper, not inkjet printed. I know that my screen is properly calibrated, it was just too bright... but now I've adjusted that issue with this DarkAdapted program I'm concerned how my pictures look on other monitors that haven't been darkened for the sake of printing.

If that makes sense!
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like your screen is profiled but not calibrated. My understanding is that calibrating is slightly different because it is about adjusting the screen brightness/contrast (and/or RGB outputs if available) to match the viewing conditions of the observer and is commonly used to match your screen to your printer output. This is done so that your system will be a closed loop - i.e. you'd have a match with everything and all will be calibrated to the same conditions. Profiling is about just building a profile that represents your device deviation from standard behavior and describes the corrections to be made to image to adapt to these differences.

A good profiling/calibration software will have a proper calibration options and profiling algorithms and will try to accomodate to the viewing conditions but I am not familiar with what Huey does - not sure it's the best device for this either, I'd prefer a proper colourimeter or specrophotometer to do that. For my screen calibration/profiling I use basICColor Display 4 software and it does allow you to calibrate as well as build the profiles.

Using what you did to reduce brightness intuitively does what you need, but with a colourimeter/specrophotometer (and possibly the one with a daylight sensor) and a good software you can adjust your brightness to match it more closely. In a newer versions of some of the profing softwares there are some profiling algorithms that will target the viewing conditions as well (basICColor Display 4 the latest version has them and when I used them it produced darker-looking profiles which matched my printer more closely).
 
Keeping it simple, and it really is, there are 3 parameters to monitor calibration

1/ White point. That's the colour temperature, usually about 6500K.

2/ Gamma. Gamma 2.2 is a typical and generaly accepted figure

3/ Brightness Now this is a difficult one to give a setting for. Many calibration devices will allow you to set the brightness of the screen .normally measured as Cd/M2. Screen brightness is a function of the ambient brightness in the viewing environment. A darker room will have a lower value than a brighter one ( Logically) . So there is no hard and fast number. Values of between 80 Cd/M2 to up to 140Cd/M2 can generally be found.

OK before you go to sleep; the screen brightness should be set so that the reference print you are using matches the percieved brightness of the screen. Simple..

So don't worry about the brightness of other screens. As long as your screen matches the print then all is fine
 
I had a similar problem when I got a new pc recently.
I was so frustrated, that I bought a huey pro, as all my existing pictures looked too light.

The problem was that the original screen setting had been producing a darker and warmer colour than standard. And I had been using this to adjust the photographs in photoshop.



When I looked at my photographs on a digital photoframe or many other computers they looked too light and also printed too light.

Over the last month I have taken some of my sets of photographs (at least a thousand so far) and all tiffs, back into photoshop and made a curves correction layer. This changes the colour and gamma to look right on the screen... it also prints correctly on my inkjet.

There should be no need to make individual curves adjustments, But you can use the same curve over and over.

If my photographs had been Jpegs this would have degraded them to some extent, but probably far less than the error.

When I checked back, the error set in when I changed my computer last, some three years ago. So not all my shots need changing.

The real problem in my case , and I expect for many other people . Was that I adjusted my photographs using an out of adjustment monitor.... this does more harm than good.

This shows the importance of always using a monitor that has been calibrated before making any permanent alterations to digital files.
 
I recently changed from PC to Imac and found the same brightness issues, the info posted in this thread has proved very useful. I have downloaded the DarkAdapted X software which made all the difference. Thanks very much.
:):clap::)
 
Excellent comments - I can't have put it better. However I'd like to complicate things a bit ;)

Chappers said:
1/ White point. That's the colour temperature, usually about 6500K.
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Not for LCDs - those are better use native white point for profile building. Anything else and you may not be using the monitor to it's full capacity. The reason behind it is that LCDs display image by means of filtering backlight - where the RGB components of the pixel allow all light through it will produce white and where they block light completely it will be black. The colour temperature of the backlight is not really controllable (unless you have a very expensive monitor) as well as the one of the matrix itself hence the "Native" option should be used for white and black points (if the application gives you such an option).

Chappers said:
2/ Gamma. Gamma 2.2 is a typical and generaly accepted figure
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This may be the widely accepted choice but there are a number of options here. Namely there is this well known L* gamma that gives you perceptually linear image editing (but the image editing application need to be able to use L* as well internally to make use of it). Then there are those curves that are better adapted for different viewing conditions (basICColor Display software uses them).
Chappers said:
3/ Brightness Now this is a difficult one to give a setting for. Many calibration devices will allow you to set the brightness of the screen .normally measured as Cd/M2. Screen brightness is a function of the ambient brightness in the viewing environment. A darker room will have a lower value than a brighter one ( Logically) . So there is no hard and fast number. Values of between 80 Cd/M2 to up to 140Cd/M2 can generally be found.

OK before you go to sleep; the screen brightness should be set so that the reference print you are using matches the percieved brightness of the screen. Simple..

So don't worry about the brightness of other screens. As long as your screen matches the print then all is fine
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree.
 
I contacted the lab and they've emailed me a Fuji chart and are sending a printed one in the post for me to try and calibrate with. My life would be a lot easier if Adobe Gamma existed for Mac! Hopefully I can figure it out when I get the chart; at the moment I've managed to get it close but the gamma is off and the colour is just a few shades too warm...
 
They sent out the print and I've managed to do it as close as I can.. the screen is still a bit brighter, especially the greens and reds, but I can live with that!

Thank you to everyone who responded, I understand what it is and how to do it a lot better now!
 
firstglance said:
They sent out the print and I've managed to do it as close as I can.. the screen is still a bit brighter, especially the greens and reds, but I can live with that!

Thank you to everyone who responded, I understand what it is and how to do it a lot better now!
Click to expand...


Technology can be vastly overstated sometimes when simplicity is all you need. Glad you have it sorted. (y)
 
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