Check your Exif when you buy a camera!

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Andy
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Having Just purchased a nikon d300 for my girlfriend I was alarmed when after calling first to check Jacobs had one in stock I collected it to find it was the one from display I got it home and fired the shutter and checked it in opanda... They had the brass to give me a camera with 400 shutter actuations on it and charge me full price.. they have since ordered me in a new sealed box but a word of warning to others as I had a friend who had exactly the same with her d700 1000 actuations!

Whats sad is the camera shops doing this think its just ok!

Buy it in a sealled box or ask for money off!
 
Thats not on! How do you check how many shots it has taken?
 
Silly question perhaps, but do they test them before they leave the factory, and will that total be counted?
 
download a program called opanda its free!
shoot a jpg image and import it into opanda the information is displayed at the bottom
 
not sure that 400 clicks out of the D300's 150,000 tested clicks is that bad to be honest..

not all cameras have the shutter count in the EXIF also. the 20D for example doesnt seem to have a working method of getting the info..
 
the difference is its advertised as a new product and I could have picked a second hand one up with not many more actuation for 300 quid less if I wanted a used one.. its the morals of the companies selling these that worries me... would you be happy with your new car arriving on your doorstep with 400 miles on it?
 
the difference is its advertised as a new product and I could have picked a second hand one up with not many more actuation for 300 quid less if I wanted a used one.. its the morals of the companies selling these that worries me... would you be happy with your new car arriving on your doorstep with 400 miles on it?

Some new cars can have the speedos reset up to 2 or 3 times by the dealer, providing it doesn't go over a certain threshold.

If your upset, take it back and complain. It could be that the shop knew nothing of it, and the fault / mistake lies higher up the food chain.
 
thats the sad thing they did know about it... I told em at the shop if i get it back and its got high shutter reps on it il bringing it back so they have been ok with organising a replacement but that doesnt recover my time traveling to the city nor my parking meeter to get it, if they had said when i called and checked stock its the display model is that ok i could have at least said yes if your drop 300 quid off or no can you get me a sealed unit please but to just sell it after its been mauled by the public is just wrong.. and although i agree 400 is nothing in the greater scale its the fact that how many times have different lenses been taken on and off clumsily or its been left on while a lens was swapped and how much dust is now on the sensor etc...
 
ok my rant is over! deep breath just be careful peeps im taking this one back to jacobs birmingham where i boulght it and I sadly dont believe it will be kept as a display model, it will just to the next unsuspecting customer as new!
 
Seems to happen quite a lot, I got a 40d from Jessops only I didn't need to cheack the shutter count to see it had been used .... they left the 'shop' memory card in with photos on! Just took it back and swapped it. Lesson of the day, if things like this bother you, make sure the box is sealed.
 
Seems to happen quite a lot, I got a 40d from Jessops only I didn't need to cheack the shutter count to see it had been used .... they left the 'shop' memory card in with photos on! Just took it back and swapped it. Lesson of the day, if things like this bother you, make sure the box is sealed.

Did you keep the memory card as compensation? ;)
 
Same thing happened to me in Curry's with a PC

It was advertised as a demo model, one chap told me it was only used to show customers and then another spilt the beans and said it was a customer return
Had been taken away for a week by its original owner before it was returned.

God only knows what could have been on that machine, shudder thinking about it

Had a right old go at the first chap who turned out to be the manager, was asked not to return to that store again, as if i would want to
 
I would. New cars take several thousand miles before they're run in!;)

Not any more they don't - as long as you do it properly - lots of working the gears through the entire rev-range, allowing the engine to warm-up fully before loading the engine etc...

Should take no more than 1,000 miles.

And if I'm paying for it, I'd want to be the one doing it, not some spotty-Herbert in the parts department...or other customers 'test-driving' it...
 
I always test my cameras for this straight away when i get them home now, take one photo and put it through opanda, last two have been fine, it did occur to me though can't you set the camera back to start again, i'm sure i've read it in the manual on Nikon's, would it make a difference to the Exif or would it stay in tact, anyone got any thoughts on this :thinking:
 
only Nikon have the software to do a reset of your shutter count if the shutter is replaced however I have also read they no longer do this as the they say the camera has taken this many snaps not just the shutter... I also just read that the d50 -d70 and a few older models reset after 65,536 actuations and roll back to 0! this makes it especially hard if your buying a second hand camera I guess.
It would also appear that Nikon will replace the shutter for free even if your out of year warranty and under the designated shutter expectation i.e 300,000 for a d3... and so they bloody should at the cost of one!
From a consumer rights stand point and dont quote me on this but from memory you can return goods upto 7 odd years from purchase if faulty regardless of guarantee I see if I can find further info on this on the web!
 
ok I know this has gone a little off topic now so il post this elsewhere too but to add to my previous post I just found this and thought it relevant and useful.
Sale of Goods Act Quick Facts

Please also see my other guide on Distance selling regulations

Subject: Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.

Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.

Key Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.


Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

Q1. What is an inherent fault?
Q2. Do I only have rights for 30 [or some other number] days after purchase?
Q3. Do all goods have to last six (or five) years?
Q4. I know I can demand my money back within a "reasonable time" but how long is that?
Q5. After the "reasonable time has passed", what can I do?
Q6. Is it true that I have to complain to the manufacturer?
Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt?
Q8. Can I claim a refund on sale items?
Q9. Must I accept a credit note instead of a refund?
Q10. What can I do to claim damages or if the retailer will not honour my rights?
Q11. The retailer has claimed that a repair is "disproportionately costly" and insists I accept a replacement as an alternative. Must I accept this?
Q12. Neither repair nor replacement are possible. What can I do?
Q13. What will the "reversed burden of proof" mean for the consumer?
Q14. Where can I get further advice?

-------------------------

Q1. What is an inherent fault?

A fault present at the time of purchase. Examples are:
• an error in design so that a product is manufactured incorrectly
• an error in manufacturing where a faulty component was inserted.
The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard.

Q2. Do I only have rights for 30 (or some other figure) days after purchase?

No. Depending on circumstances, you might be too late to have all your money back after this time, but the trader will still be liable for any breaches of contract, such as the goods being faulty. In fact, the trader could be liable to compensate you for up to six years.

Q3. Are all goods supposed to last six (or five) years?

No, that is the limit for bringing a court case in England and Wales (five years from the time of discovery in Scotland's case). An item only needs to last as long as it is reasonable to expect it to, taking into account all the factors. An oil filter would usually not last longer than a year but that would not mean it was unsatisfactory.

Q4. I know I can demand my money back within a "reasonable time" but how long is that?

The law does not specify a precise time as it will vary for most sales contracts as all the factors need to be taken into account to be fair to all sides. The pair of everyday shoes may only have a few days before the period expires but a pair of skis, purchased in a Summer Sale, may be allowed a longer period by a court.

Q5. After the "reasonable time" has passed, what can I do?

You may seek damages, which would be the amount of money necessary to have the goods repaired or replaced. Frequently retailers will themselves offer repair or replacement. But, if you are a consumer (not making the purchase in the course of a business) you have the statutory right to seek a repair or replacement as an alternative to seeking damages.

Q6. Is it true that I have to complain to the manufacturer?

No. You bought the goods from the trader, not the manufacturer, and the trader is liable for any breaches of contract (unless he was acting as the manufacturer's agent).

Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt to claim my rights?

No. In fact the trader doesn't have to give you a receipt in the first place so it would be unfair to say that you had to produce one. However, it might not be unreasonable for the shop to want some proof of purchase, so look to see if you have a cheque stub, bank statement, credit card slip etc., and this should be sufficient.

Q8. Can I claim a refund on sale items?

It depends on why you want to return them. The Sale of Goods Act still applies, but you are not entitled to a refund if you were told of the faults before purchase, or if the fault should have been obvious to you. Also, you are not entitled to a refund if you simply change your mind about liking the goods.

Q9. Must I accept a credit note instead of a refund?

It depends on why you want to return the goods.

• If you have changed your mind, then the shop doesn't have to do anything.

• But if the goods are faulty, incorrectly described or not fit for purpose, then you are entitled to your money back (provided you act quickly), and you certainly don't have to take a credit note

• If you do accept a credit note in these circumstances, watch out, as there may be restrictions on their use.

• If the shop displays a sign stating they only give credit notes instead of refunds, they might be breaking the law and you could report them to Consumer Direct on 08454 04 05 06. Consumers in Northern Ireland should contact www.consumerline.org on 0845 600 6262.

Q10. What can I do to claim damages or if the retailer will not honour my rights?

The Small Claims Court procedure provides the means to bring a claim, for up to £5000 (in England and Wales), at modest cost and without the need for a solicitor. Your local Citizens Advice Bureau can advise on how to make a claim.

Q11. The retailer has said that a repair is "disproportionately costly" and insists I accept a replacement as an alternative. Must I accept this?

Yes, and vice versa if you request a replacement and this is "disproportionately costly". However, remember any remedy has to be carried out "without significant inconvenience" and within a "reasonable time" for the consumer. Remember that you could also seek damages instead.

Q12. Neither repair nor replacement of the goods are possible. What can I do?

You may either pursue the old route of damages or a partial or full refund. Probably either would give you exactly the same amount of money. You would seek a full refund in scenarios such as those where you had enjoyed absolutely no benefit from the goods. If you had benefited from them then you would seek a partial refund as a fair remedy. This is exactly the reasoning that would be employed if you sought damages.

Q13. What does the "reversed burden of proof" mean for the consumer?

It means that for the first six months the consumer need not produce any evidence that a product was inherently faulty at the time of sale. If a consumer is seeking any other remedy the burden of proof remains with him/her.

In such a case, the retailer will either accept there was an inherent fault, and will offer a remedy, or he will dispute that it was inherently flawed. If the latter, when he inspects the product to analyse the cause, he may, for example, point out impact damage or stains that would be consistent with it having been mistreated in such a way as to bring about the fault.

This reversal of the usual burden of proof only applies when the consumer is seeking a repair or replacement. After the first six months the onus of proof is again on the consumer.

Q14. Where can I get further advice?

Contact Consumer Direct at: www.consumerdirect.gov.uk (Tel: 08454 04 05 06). Consumers in Northern Ireland should contact www.consumerline.org on 0845 600 6262.
 
Having worked in retail, I can see both sides of this.
Quite often the advice on here is to go to a shop and handle a camera, but how many people then buy said camera? How many people just come home and look for a cheaper deal on the web?
The latter leaves the store with an opened box, I have sold items that I have carefully repackaged at full price because it was the last one and the customer was happy to pay full price. I didn't do discounts because the next customer would be happy to pay full price and I may not get any more stock for a couple of days.

I said I can see both sides, and I can. I think 400 actuations is a bit much, it sounds like it may have been borrowed for a weekend, maybe by staff maybe by a cheeky customer. Maybe some "have a go hero" did a family wedding with it then demanded a refund.

I used to charge bluetooth headsets, one at a time. When somebody bought one I gave them an option, a charged one you can use now or one that's never been opened and you'll have to charge when you get home? 9 out of 10 took the already opened one.
 
It would also appear that Nikon will replace the shutter for free even if your out of year warranty and under the designated shutter expectation i.e 300,000 for a d3...

really? i didnt realise that, i thought the 300,000 was just the likely guide lifespan of the shutter, to give you an idea of how long you could use it for. its pretty excellent if they'll replace any for free if they fail before then.

with regard to the opening post, i worked in photography retail around 6 or 7 or so years ago, and it really disheartened me everytime we sold the display model, but the simple fact was that small shops dont carry a huge amount of stock, and occasionally the only model they'd have in was the display one, certainly if it was a high end or less sort after model. you'd expect to be told that though, and offered some sort of discount if its likely to have done more than one or two shots. 400 is a bit much, sounds like it had either been on the shelf for a few months, or been used around the shop by the staff!
 
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