Chemicals basic questions.

cowasaki

cowasaki

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I bought a dark room setup of JUST DAVE a couple of months ago but due to me still working on the dark room and then Wheels' chariot I have not had chance to have a play. Later this month I plan to have a go and so I need to get all the chemicals, film etc ready. Dave did give me some paper and chemicals BUT the paper is older stuff and I would like to keep that for the moment and experiment with new stuff so I know that if it goes wrong it is my fault. I do have a vast quantity of 4" roll paper which I can try but I thought getting new stuff might be best.

So at the moment I really like Ilford and Kodak B&W C41 film... What would give me a similar image USING NORMAL B&W DEVELOPING... Maybe 400 ISO

Then chemicals..... Do I need to stick to the same ranges? I have just looked at AG Photographic's site and there is so much choice! Can someone give me a basic selection of chemicals from AG that would do for film and paper developing with the film above.
 
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Go on someone must be able to help me :)

I have an enlarger with the Ilford multigrade filters etc and my favourite black and white film so far is Ilford XP2 C41.

SO

What film do I buy and what chemicals do I need to develop the film to neg and the negs to paper.

I am asking because it would appear that some of the chemicals are the same.

I am off for the next 3 weeks after this set of nights so wanted to have my first go at developing. I have kindly been sent 3 old films to practice loading them into the dev tank so I am getting close to my first go.....

It feels VERY daunting.....
 
well - i'd probably grab the 2 ilford bible pdf's - developing and printing if you already haven't and read through them thoroughly. As far as the chemicals go, it's pretty much laid down for you in the 2 documents - though i'd get Ilfosol 3 as the film developer rather than the DD-X as having used it, I know it's pretty forgiving. Ilfostop and Ilford rapid fix will do double duty for film and print stopping and fixing respectively. Which leaves the paper developer - I'd probably plump for Ilford Multigrade developer, seeing as the pdf's written around it.

I understand it feeling daunting - I've no room for the wet printing setup, so haven't got back into that, but the developing side is simple enough - it's just a matter of being organised, methodical and keeping calm during the process. Take the PDF and write out a cheatsheet for yourself...

Mine runs something like as follows

FP4+ @ 125iso in Ilfosol 3, 1+14 20c

Developing : 6 minutes (__ /__ /__ /__ / __ /__) (space for ticks every minute after agitation)

Stopbath : 15 seconds - Ilfostop (___)

Fix : Rapid Fix 1+4 - depleted fix - needs 3 minutes in clip test

fix for 6 minutes, agitate 2x at minute ends (__ /__ /__ /__ / __ /__)

Rinse

1 - 5 inversions and dump
2 - 10 inversions and dump
3 - 20 inversions and dump
check if clear if not - further 20 inversions
4 - add final rinse with 1 drop ecover, slosh about and remove

Hang neg's to dry

Drink Beer



Simples

And when you've mastered that, theres always C41 and E6 to try :)
 
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You need at least two chemicals (for B&W processing, non C41), with an optional two more.

ESSENTIAL:
Developer
Fix

OPTIONAL:
Stop bath
Wetting agent

For a developer, I would choose Ilford Ilfosol (3 or S) or Ilford LC29 for low-cost, ready dilutable liquids. Easy to use. LC29 lasts longer but Ilfosol is nicer.

For a fixer, go for Ilford Rapid Fix.

Stop bath... any will do. Ilford do one, your local supermarket does too (i.e. you can just use vinegar, preferably a clear one)

Wetting agent is nice if you live in a hard water area, again, any will do.
 
My favourite film was Fuji Neopan 400 developed in Agfa Rodinal 1:50, an old-fashioned emulsion combined with an old-fashioned developer gave tones and grain that I really liked.
 
mustanir said:
Stop bath... any will do. Ilford do one, your local supermarket does too (i.e. you can just use vinegar, preferably a clear one)
Sarson's Pickleing Vinegar - double Strength white vinegar :LOL:

Wetting agent is nice if you live in a hard water area, again, any will do.
1 drop of washing up liquid to a litre of the tempering water, sloshed into the dev. tank at the end works well - I said Ecover as that's what's under the sink in case of the Dishwasher blowing up :LOL:
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Thanks everyone much appreciated. So xp2+ film is closest to ilford's C41 process b&q?

Incidentally Helen did use a roll of b&q ilford film in her om10 about three years ago which has still to be developed. I take it that it should still be reasonably ok. It has been on the fridge with my film stash :)
 
If you're looking for "proper" B&W film that has similar characteristics to ilford XP2+ (which is ilfords C41 process 400 asa and not particularly grainy) then I'd probably say something like LegacyPro 400.

For something with a bit more grain then HP5+ would fit the bill (or use FP4+ and push it to 400!)

Hopefully, the roll of 3 year old exposed film that has been in the fridge (rather than on it - I know the top of my fridge gets pretty hot ;)) should be okay - just make sure you allow it to warm up to room temperature nice and steady first. I wouldn't worry about it, but would probably process a few fresh films first, just to get your timings down and your confidence up. If you did it as the first process, you wouldn't know if your timings were out, or if the film had been munged by storage :shrug:
 
TheBigYin said:
If you're looking for "proper" B&W film that has similar characteristics to ilford XP2+ (which is ilfords C41 process 400 asa and not particularly grainy) then I'd probably say something like LegacyPro 400.

For something with a bit more grain then HP5+ would fit the bill (or use FP4+ and push it to 400!)

Hopefully, the roll of 3 year old exposed film that has been in the fridge (rather than on it - I know the top of my fridge gets pretty hot ;)) should be okay - just make sure you allow it to warm up to room temperature nice and steady first. I wouldn't worry about it, but would probably process a few fresh films first, just to get your timings down and your confidence up. If you did it as the first process, you wouldn't know if your timings were out, or if the film had been munged by storage :shrug:
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Helen will do her own film so we'll take that advice and she can let me do a few first. I will be ordering my chemicals and a few films next week :) What would be a good film for low key art nudes (like my Lencarta shoot).
 
Well - you're in a pro-studio, so light's not a problem - I'd go for something smooth grained - maybe Delta 100 or LegacyPro 100 but rate them at 50 - i.e. pulled 1 stop, then developed in perceptol ?
 
TheBigYin said:
Well - you're in a pro-studio, so light's not a problem - I'd go for something smooth grained - maybe Delta 100 or LegacyPro 100 but rate them at 50 - i.e. pulled 1 stop, then developed in perceptol ?
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Right now you've lost me again. So I use 100 ISO Legacy Pro film but tell the camera that it is 50 ISO then when developing the film I make an adjustment to the timings/strength or something there.... Is that it? What is perceptol?
 
cowasaki said:
Right now you've lost me again. So I use 100 ISO Legacy Pro film but tell the camera that it is 50 ISO then when developing the film I make an adjustment to the timings/strength or something there.... Is that it? What is perceptol?
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Yep - you basically overexpose the film in the camera by one stop (by telling the camera that the iso100 film is actually iso50) and then you under-develop the film by one stop to compensate for the over-exposure in the camera. This means that you have the film in the developer for a shorter time, which means that the grain structure doesn't have time to grow as large, hence the visible grain appears smoother. I believe it also has a beneficial effect on the effective dynamic range of the film, but i'm not 100% on that side of things.

Perceptol is another developing solution - it's an ilford concoction, bought as a powder and mixed up with water to give a developer that again gives a very fine grain structure. All little tricks to try and allow larger enlargements from a 35mm negative :)
 
Don't forget you need different developers for film and paper. All the other chemicals are interchangeable but not the developer. Ilford Hypam is a good starting point.
 
Well I've got a pretty good shopping list to go through now. I will go and buy the stuff next week. I have some B&W negs from the C41 films so I can try some prints first. I might well try a nice one of Cassie or Moo.

Will keep you all informed and might well do a few pages on my web site once I have got it all working.

I love the FM and my new EM so will give them a try but for the studio I am going to pick up an F5 or if I can an F6
 
The reason you need to overexpose slightly by rating at 50 instead of 100 is because Perceptol reduces the film speed so to obtain very fine grain
 
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