D610 and Sony A7 IQ and AF difference

rodd1000

rodd1000

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Hi guys, looking to upgrade my Fuji Xt1 system (inc 18-55, 55-200) to at last move to something Fx and hopefully attain better IQ and functionality. Main uses are product and landscape with occasional wildlife, although the latter is less important so dont really need a speed demon. I like the form factor of the Sony as it's very similar to my current Fuji gear. I've read A7 reviews but it's very difficult to glean as to whether id see much improvement over my current xt1. I suppose the easy way to settle it would be just buy the D610 but the size and weight is a factor, particularly when hiking. Plus I'd lose the live exposure feature which I really enjoy on the Xt1 and I've read the Sony has the same feature.

I guess the question is, will I see much IQ and Af improvement between my Xt1 and the A7 and if so would the A7 be comparable to the D610 when using like for like lenses.

Any advice much appreciated.
 
A7 and the D600/D610 at their base are basically the same 24mp sensor, I recently tried an A7 and while I personally found it a bit of a pain to use compared to my D800 (too many menus and too few buttons!) the image quality was excellent and easily as good as the D600/610.

I personally would go for the D610, its only £885 from HDEW (Grey Import) and you could always pickup a few smaller/lighter primes for hiking.
The Sony lens system isn't all that large yet (esp v Nikon and even Fuji) there are few "affordable" Sony lenses with them all seeming to cost more than their Nikon equivalent.

EDIT:

Forgot AF, personally I found the A7 AF to be a little lacking, good for static stuff but I wouldn't have wanted to use it for wildife, the XT1 AF seems to get raved about so I'd imagine its a little better than the A7. The D610 AF (I had the D600 for a while) was very good if a bit lacking sometimes in low light (pitch black) somewhere even the D800 can struggle with.
 
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I'd have a play with an a7 before swapping out your Fuji. I really didn't get on with the Sony - it had several annoying features (to me) e.g. dials that were easily jogged, a tendency to select 1/60th second shutter speed when using auto iso regardless of lens in use, sub par high iso iq for a ff camera and image compression effects when shooting landscapes at base iso.

I also struggled with evf brightness in sunny weather and disliked the loud shutter.

I much prefer the Fuji shooting experience but each to their own, there are plenty of happy a7 owners out there, I'm sure :)
 
As a happy A7 user I'll provide a little balance to the above :D

Having downloaded various FF camera raws I can honestly say that I don't see a lot in it image quality wise and with respect to manualfocus-g I'd say that anyone who thinks the A7 is sub par at higher ISO and produces artefacts at base is perhaps doing something wrong but I can get very good performance from my lowly Panasonic G1 at ISO 3200 so maybe I'm doing something right were others go wrong. Whatever. Personally I think anyone interested in any FF camera should take reports of sub par image quality even at the higher ISO's as dubious and check for themselves before making a final judgement.

On shutter noise, I was a Canon users and maybe my hearing was damaged by my years with a 20D but I don't think that the sound of the 7D shutter is an issue when shooting outdoors. Indoor shooting in quiet environments may be another issue but if it is you can probably rule out many DSLR's, certainly my 20D sounded like an anvil being thrown into a tin bath and the A7 is IMVHO less bothersome. There are sound tests online against other cameras should you think it's a real world issue.

On the general subject of A7 v any FF DSLR I'd personally disregard image quality issues as insignificant and instead look at features, lenses and accessories. The A7 series lacks native lenses at the moment and those that either exist or are coming seem to be mostly of very high quality and I don't see any plastic cheapies of the type available for DSLR's coming any time soon. Sony seem to be aiming for a higher end system and budget lenses don't seem to be on the menu apart from the kit lens and a wide focal range zoom. Of course you can always buy the likes of a £15 50mm f1.8 and mount it via a £10 adapter if you are happy to focus manually. I am :D

Personally I'd always choose the A7 over a DSLR because I like more compact kit, see the advantages offered by an EVF (WYSIWYG, magnified view, blinkies, in view histogram... all wonderful things!) and often use manual focus lenses and CSC's are idea for this. The DSLR will offer a more complete system and no doubt a couple of advantages and disadvantages in various areas. Swings and roundabouts IMVHO.
 
I'd tend agree with Alan.

I have a D610 and recently bought an Olympus M4/3 which I've been using a lot - there isn't too much difference in image quality (yes the D610 is better but not by as much as you might think, the Fuji IQ is meant to be better than the EM10 so I wonder just how much difference you would see) and the extra features of live view really are fantastic. Also, in comparison the D610 is massive which is odd as it felt small when I switched from a D700, something to consider if you're hiking and already used to small kit.

The reason M4/3 works for me is the large variety of very good lenses, something that the Sony is missing. That said, I recently met a pro tog who (despite being fuji sponsored) was using an A7 with a Zeiss adapter and glass, manual focus only but with focus peaking it works well and was small, compact with great IQ.

The A7 is meant to have much better AF than the XT1 (which like many CSC's is woeful on continuous), the digital rev video review shows it tracking skateboarders with no problem.

The only major negative is battery life, which for all CSC's is basically crap and it does my head in when I'm used to leaving a DSLR switched on and even after months of sitting there doing nothing but sleeping the battery is still full.

I think, if I were in your shoes I'd go for the D610 as I'm not sure the A7 offers that much more over your fuji other than better AF.
 
I was under the impression that the x-t1 had better AF than the a7 with better tracking capability. Would be useful if someone with both could clear that up.

Re: my high iso comments, the a7 has significant color noise at high iso when used in low light compared to my 6D. I saw artifacts at low iso when shooting landscapes - the sky had a sort of blocky gradient at times, quite distracting.

That said, everyone has different expectations, try before you buy and you can't go too far wrong.
 
I think Fuji claim some sort of amazing AF performance but real life use is far from that..
 
manualfocus-g said:
I was under the impression that the x-t1 had better AF than the a7 with better tracking capability. Would be useful if someone with both could clear that up.

Re: my high iso comments, the a7 has significant color noise at high iso when used in low light compared to my 6D. I saw artifacts at low iso when shooting landscapes - the sky had a sort of blocky gradient at times, quite distracting.

That said, everyone has different expectations, try before you buy and you can't go too far wrong.
Click to expand...

In my experience the X-T1 had better AF than the A7 (I had both), definitely better CAF.

Sensor wise, the X-T1 files are a bit mushy because the in camera processing is quite heavy, the ISO is also about 1/3 stop off in comparison to other cameras (says 6400 but actually around 4000), also note the noise processing in the D610 file in comparison to the A7 file... add the same noise reduction to the A7 file and youll probably end up with the same result as the D610 file.

Add the A7, D610 and X-T1, move box to the brown feathers to check detail in RAW at ISO6400.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a7r/17
 
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Nawty said:
I think Fuji claim some sort of amazing AF performance but real life use is far from that..
Click to expand...

So do Sony and all the CSC manufacturers, I take it by you saying The A7 is meant to have much better AF than the XT1 you havent actually compared them yourself.
 
I changed systems just before Christmas, I had the XT1.I wanted longer lenses for wildlife as Fuji delayed the tele 100-400mm?

I tried the A7 with 28-70 kit lens and XT1 with 18-55 kit lens and from my limited testing I would say the AF and the EVF were better on the XT1. I was expecting the Sony 28-70 lens to be a dog after reading some comments and I would say it performed as good as the excellent Fuji 18-55 lens. From my limited testing I couldn't see any significant difference in IQ between the two, I took about 30 pics for comparison.

The A7 wouldn't have been suitable for me as I wanted longer lenses and I decided I wanted to get away from MF using adapters and long lenses.

Haven't tried the newer model with IBIS or A7s or A7R, are these better than the original A7? Perhaps you could take a memory card to your local dealer and have a play with them?

I then went to the D750 and although I had cheap lenses I thought it was a better camera over the two above, although the JPEGS aren't as good as the Fuji if you shoot JPEG's, all IMO. It doesn't have the heft or weight of say a D700 and the recessed grip made for comfortable holding. My D750 had debris in the VF and I had to return to Panamoz and as they couldn't deliver a replacement before Christmas I had a refund. After looking at my finances I have decided to buy a D7100 and better glass for the time being, I thought I would be better off with a good camera and excellent glass rather than a excellent camera and cheap glass. I will buy a D750 again in a few months and I am building my lenses up at the same time.

If I had the money I would have the XT1 and D750. I may get to that stage next year. Due to my disabilities the DSLR is for home use and I need a lighter system for going out. Using the XF1 for time being.
 
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twist said:
In my experience the X-T1 had better AF than the A7 (I had both), definitely better CAF.

Sensor wise, the X-T1 files are a bit mushy because the in camera processing is quite heavy, the ISO is also about 1/3 stop off in comparison to other cameras (says 6400 but actually around 4000), also note the noise processing in the D610 file in comparison to the A7 file... add the same noise reduction to the A7 file and youll probably end up with the same result as the D610 file.

Add the A7, D610 and X-T1, move box to the brown feathers to check detail in RAW at ISO6400.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a7r/17
Click to expand...

Thanks guys for all the replies and Twist for the dpreview link. Looking at iso 100 to 400, it would seem that the A7 raw files are slightly more detailed or sharper than the d610 which appear ever so slightly smudged (i do notice this smudge effect on many of my fuji images too). On this crop from near the centre on the red cotton ball, you can make out the red fabric on the A7 but on the D610 it looks smeared, which really suprises me. The 2nd crop of green foliage from the upper right corner shows a similar thing, the A7 looks a tad crisper and detailed. Infact the XT1 looks quite comparable to the D610 on this test, which suprises me and makes me wonder how reliable this way of comparison is. Im certainly no expert, i just see what's in front of me on my macbook screen so im happy to be told im wrong.

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I notice MPB are doing mint used A7's for £724. Which is very a attractive price for a FX camera and would give me cash to spend on lenses. Allthough i have to admit, im very confused over the A7 lens situation, as i understand it you can autofocus almost any lens just by purchasing the correct adapter? I've no idea what would be comparable to 18-55 i've been using on the Fuji?
 
You can buy the A7 with standard kit lens (28-70mm) for £999.00 in this country or about £130.00 cheaper from HK. The 28-70mm will be similar to the Fuji 18-55mm.

Not sure on AF with any lenses, maybe Sony ones and the Sony adapter which is expensive, otherwise it will be manual focus with a cheap ebay £15.00 adapter using M42, Canon Fd lenses etc........

@woof woof will advise better on AF adapters possibly?
 
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rodd1000 said:
Thanks guys for all the replies and Twist for the dpreview link. Looking at iso 100 to 400, it would seem that the A7 raw files are slightly more detailed or sharper than the d610 which appear ever so slightly smudged (i do notice this smudge effect on many of my fuji images too). On this crop from near the centre on the red cotton ball, you can make out the red fabric on the A7 but on the D610 it looks smeared, which really suprises me. The 2nd crop of green foliage from the upper right corner shows a similar thing, the A7 looks a tad crisper and detailed. Infact the XT1 looks quite comparable to the D610 on this test, which suprises me and makes me wonder how reliable this way of comparison is. Im certainly no expert, i just see what's in front of me on my macbook screen so im happy to be told im wrong.

Screen_shot.png


grab2.png



I notice MPB are doing mint used A7's for £724. Which is very a attractive price for a FX camera and would give me cash to spend on lenses. Allthough i have to admit, im very confused over the A7 lens situation, as i understand it you can autofocus almost any lens just by purchasing the correct adapter? I've no idea what would be comparable to 18-55 i've been using on the Fuji?
Click to expand...

Yup, thats what I was pointing out in reply to the previous posters comments about noise. The cameras all process noise differently.

The lens situation... No, not all lenses will AF when using an adapter, very few lenses will and performance is slow with non native lenses (besides A mount lenses using an LAEA4). You can use pretty much every lens by any manufacturer ever made on the camera using manual focus and an adapter.

The cheapest equiv for your 18-55 is the Sony 28-70, then theres the more expensive Sony Zeiss 24-70 F4 OSS. You shoot product and landscape so theres no reason not to go for some high quality legacy primes from Zeiss/Nikon/Canon/Leica etc etc. Manual focus with these cameras is very easy when using the built in magnifier and peaking.
 
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