First Time dSLR buyer. Which Camera?

Krydel

Krydel

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Ollie Adams-Liggins
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Hi there,

Forgive the trivial "which camera should i get" themed thread, but it is indeed what i wish to know.

Budget is £500 for just the camera and kit lens, the rest: bag, tripod, filters etc. will come later. (£30 a week income from september)

Cameras i am looking at are:

Canon EOS 450D £499 (Do i really need 3200 ISO?)
Sony A300 £329 or £399 for A350 (Apparently the extra 4MP squeezed onto the A350s identical sensor causes a lot of noise at higher ISO settings?)
Nikon D60 £379(Slightly worried by only 3 focus points?)

Then, of course, there is the option of buying only the body and buying a decent lens (i'm told the kit lens' aren't up to standard) but i wouldn't know about that.

There are many proffesional reviews around, but these do not seem to help as much as you would think.

Any advice? I plan to take low-light night shots, cityscapes, macro shots of flowers, water droplet capture shots, ghost effect (long shutter speeds, right?) and the long exposure of traffic.
 
Canon EOS 450D £499 (Do i really need 3200 ISO?) You might!!

Sony A300 £329 or £399 for A350 (Apparently the extra 4MP squeezed onto the A350s identical sensor causes a lot of noise at higher ISO settings?) Indeed it does!

Nikon D60 £379(Slightly worried by only 3 focus points?) I would be too!

It sounds like you've done your research! Is liveview a must? (I guess not as the D60 you listed doesn't have it) If not, then why have you not listed the A200? It's at a bargain price at the moment and IMO is the best value of all the entry level DSLR's, which is why I bought one myself!!

Most people have brand loyality to some degree, including myself, but even when I replaced my A100 and bought my A200, I genuinely looked into other systems/brands and ended up sticking with Sony.

Another point worth mentioning (as I'm sure other members will too) is have you held the cameras in your hands? Get yourself to a shop and handle the cameras and see which one is the most comfortable for you to hold. I have big hands and the Sony feels great. I handled a mates D40x and it felt stupidly small! No way could I live with it day to day!
 
Slimbert said:
It sounds like you've done your research! Is liveview a must? (I guess not as the D60 you listed doesn't have it) If not, then why have you not listed the A200? It's at a bargain price at the moment and IMO is the best value of all the entry level DSLR's, which is why I bought one myself!!
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Thanks for the advice.

I had looked at the A200 but in all honesty i'm one of these who aren't so keen on buying a Sony and would much rather look into Nikon and Canon. I hear the A200 has a nasty habit of underexposing and doesn't do very well for night shots, but i'm sure theres a large amount of bias in this information.
 
I have had my Canon 350D for 4 years now and am extremely pleased with it.

You should be able to get a good second hand one for about £250+

Athough 8MB seems a bit low these days unless you are going to print large, it is more than adequate.

You can also get spare batteries on Ebay for about a fiver each (£10+ for 2)

I bought two and they regularly take 500+ pics on my 350D fitted with a Canon 70-300mm IS USM lens.
 
Krydel said:
Thanks for the advice.

I had looked at the A200 but in all honesty I'm one of these who aren't so keen on buying a Sony and would much rather look into Nikon and Canon. I hear the A200 has a nasty habit of underexposing and doesn't do very well for night shots, but I'm sure theres a large amount of bias in this information.
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed any problems with under exposing, but I've never used it for night shots so can't say for sure on that one.

I think with the current line-ups, if you're going to buy into a "system" then Nikon and Canon definitely have the edge atm. The big two have a camera to suit almost any photographers needs, whereas Sony are still getting going in my opinion. Time will tell I guess but Sony are quickly gaining a bigger share of the market.

I've said before that I think over the next 2/3 years Sony will do a lot of catching up in that respect. There are rumours of an A500/A530 that will plug a big hole in Sony's line up, and there are some new lenses on the way that should fill some of the gaps they have currently.

Sony shouldn't be seen to be the new boys of the DSLR world. They bought the DSLR part of Konica Minolta and with it decades of DSLR camera know how. I wonder if some people would be so reserved/snobby about the Alpha range if it said Minolta on the box!!

I do think though, which ever brand you buy into, you can't really go wrong! All the entry level cameras are well reviewed, and my earlier point of which one fits in your hand should be a bigger deciding factor than 1/3rd on an inch bigger screen or battery life or something else that doesn't really mean anything! I'd hate to use a camera all the time that I found uncomfortable to hold!!
 
I think it is hidden in the menu, but drastically increases the noise:thinking:
 
Hi Krydel :p Assuming you're the same krydel off ebuyer forums? Anyway, the A200 doesn't really have a problem with underexposing in my experience but then again I don't use the auto mode much sooo yeah.

In my opinion the Sony is the best price/performance camera out there at the moment. I've found that it can compare to the D60 in terms of image quality and features for more than 100 quid less. However, as you have 500 quid to work with the Canon may be a nicer camera for you.

However, the most important thing when buying an SLR... Go into a shop and hold them first and see which one you like the best as in the end, most entry level SLRs perform very similarly so the body feeling comfortable and you liking the menu systems is probably the most important thing.
 
I've just thought, with a budget of £500 you could almost bag yourself one of these: Sony A700 although WE's stock avaliablility can be rather unreliable.....

The Sony kit lens can be picked up for £30ish on the bay, and then you'll have a camera that some people prefer to the 40D!!!
 
You may be lucky enough to find a used D200 around that price but will be certainly enough to get you a D80 + lens
 
I have until recently been asking that very question to the members of TP.

I had a similar budget and i went for the Alpha a300. I think it was the best choice i could have made. I bought it from jessops for £329.99 and also i got the pack of accesories for £60.00 which included a 4 gig card, bag which can hold body, 2 lenses and accesories, and a UV filter.

I must admit i have not been out much with my camera yet as i am so busy but, the few times i have been out i have loved it. It is light-ish, easy to use, and looks great. The pictures seem to be fantastic just need to learn about exposure, thats all.

I really highly recommend it!

Good luck in a very hard decision

jonny
 
Krydel said:
Sony A300 £329 or £399 for A350 (Apparently the extra 4MP squeezed onto the A350s identical sensor causes a lot of noise at higher ISO settings?)
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the different companies have different outlooks & are willing to compromise in different areas to achieve their aims - Sony seem to concentrate on providing the highest quality at the ISOs that the vast majority of people will use most of the time & are willing to trade this off against a bit more noise at higher ISOs that a relatively small % of buyers (although no doubt a larger % of people on forums like this) will use. Nikon are the kings of high ISO but others would say that they achieve that by smoothing detail ...
The 350 obviously gives you a bit more resolution but also is noted for having excellent dynamic range.
You won't have any problems finding an excellent lens for an A350 unless you want something like a tilt/shift or an ultra tele (500/4 etc.) but either of those would be costing £1000s anyway & I suspect your budget doesn't run to those on any system.

There are no bad current generation DSLRs.
As has been said they do vary in ergonomics & user interface & that will probably make a larger difference so get thee to a shop & handle. :)
 
Trev Rich said:
450D has ISO of 3200????

I am sure mine doesn't :thinking::thinking::cautious:
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I must have phrased it wrongly. "Do i really need 3200 ISO" as in it doesn't have it. But again, i may be wrong.

------------------------

Still largely undecided, it seems there are good arguments from all sides. I know it is a very black and white way to view things, but surely the canon, £499, is going to be better than a £260 A200? :help:

Thing is i'm loathed to go Sony, as most people i know go "Sony? pah, get a nikon or canon" and it kind of rubs off on you. Concerning the high ISO noise on Sony slrs, was whoever it was referring to the A350 specifically, or sonys in general?

There are also A230 and A330 varities of the Sony cameras:shake:

Is the D80 discontinued?

EDIT** When are the new sony A500 and such coming out? I wont be purchasing till mid august?
 
To be fair the d60 CAN go to 3200 but if your using it on that you get pictures that look like they came off a webcam, As far as im aware the d80 isnt made anymore the d90 is, second hand is still an awesome idea, if you can get one off a member of this forum in the for sale section they are generally an honest and friendly lot and you could snag a bargain :)
 
Also filter! DOES NOT COME LATER!!!!!, its always worth grabbing even a cheap one to protect your lens, ive actually had a woman scratch my lens filter with her car keys, imagine it being your lens, NOT FUN
 
the for sale section here is the best bet imo. all of the kit looks very well looked after.
 
Viking said:
I have the 450d and have enjoyed using it for nearly one year now. I would strongly recommend looking for a used camera in mint condition - can normally save 30%.

A link to a 400d with two lenses (on another forum, you would have to register):
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=145383

John
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There are refurbed Canon EOS 450Ds on ebay for about £420 or so.
Can also pick up a Nikon D80 for around £500 or so.

Complicated business, this finding the right camera malarkey.
 
that it is krydel. have a feel of them and pick based on that.

one of the things the canon have which nikon don't is the f4L glass. lighter and cheaper than the f2.8s but just as sharp
 
Hmm, am beginning to lean towards the Canon. Anyone got images taken with the 450D with the KIT lens?

Found the following cons, if anyone could care to try and re-assure me?

Cons

* Average automatic white balance performance, still very poor under incandescent light
* Limited exposure compensation range (+/- 2.0 EV)
* Contrast detect AF so slow it's useless for most types of photography
* Metering has tendency to overexpose in very bright, contrasty conditions
* Default JPEG output may be a little 'over processed' for some tastes (raw far more flexible) This won't be an issue will it? surely you can open up a raw in photoshop, do what you want, then save it as a jpeg anyway?
* Flash must be up for AF assist lamp (although AF is good even in low light) Just nitpicking?
* Automatic AF point selection unpredictable (use center AF, it's safer) slightly worrying - anyone else has problems?


Thanks for all your ongoing help everyone,
 
I'd say buy a used 40D or 30D and a good lens (e.g. Tamron 17-50). You'll love holding/controling xxD cameras more than xxxD cameras.
 
I think i'm decided on the 450D :D

The 12MP will be nice for large prints for my portfolio and general work for my photography course at college, and i can get refurbs as cheap as £400 (whether or not i go refurb or new for £500 remains undecided, however)

Thanks for the advice everyone, you've saved me hassle (y)
 
Good stuff! You can't go far wrong with a 450D, but if I were you, I'd keep an eye on the classifieds on here, might be a bargain to be had somewhere.

Most people look after their gear and some may still have warrenties!
 
I've got the camera that is several years its predecessor, and still love it!

I've found that the lens is what makes far more difference than anything else, but with regards to the kit lens, I have heard that the 18-55 IS is actually quite good.

Good luck finding what you want, and don't forget to come back and sho us the results! (y)
 
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