Fixed Focal or Zoom??

Lonster

Lonster

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Leon
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Hi,

And I apologise if this has been discussed many times before.

I'm getting more and more into wildlife photography, especially bird photography.

I have a D300s and use 1.4x converter, I recently purchased a 300mm f4 lens which for anything within 10ft is excellent, but I'm finding that most of my shots are having to be enlarged to see the birds in the picture for anything 14ft plus, I can't afford a 400mm f2.8, so would you suggest going for a longer zoom or keep cropping??

Only reason I ask is because I was told the 300mm was the best lens for birding and also never buy a zoom, always a fixed focal lens!

What do you think? And can you suggest a good lens?
 
Lots of folk here use the sigma 150-500 and 50-500mm's and great very good results. A long time ago it was a case of avoiding zooms but that's not the case anymore.
 
I find the sigma 150-500 good for static shots, the OS will allow 4 stops shutter speed lower which is vital . it takes a lot of luck and effort to obtain a sharp inflight shot at f6.3 long end, takes a short while to AF lock on. This is where primes are fast but mega expensive. So the sigmas are great for the money !
 
A simple rule of thumb you never have a long enough lens for birding ;):D

My favourite lens is the 600mm f4 i.s that truly is the best birding lens made

i have the 300mm f2.8 as well if i had to have just 1 it would be the 600mm

Zooms have there uses but most prime lenses have a faster aperture which

means faster Autofocus. Also when it comes to cropping you normally find at

half frame size the prime is so much sharper.

To get the best from a teleconvertor you need to step the lens down a

further stop so if your lens is f4 and you add a 1.4 this turns the lens into a

f5.6 but to get the best from the combination you need to step the lens

down a further stop to f8 this will give increased sharpness.

Sorry to say but there isn't a cheap option in long telephotos, so the sigma

150-500mm os is the cheapest option or maybe the sigma 500mm F4.5 ex

secondhand about £1500 double the price of the 150-500mm with no o.s.

My choice would be the prime and a 1.4 convertor you would have 300mm,

420mm and 500mm and a manually focusing 700mm unless you tape the pins

remember to factor in the price of a gimbal head if you go this route

Regards

Richard
 
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The best lens for birding can be very subjective. I know a lot of people who like to hike and capture whatever they see while out, most prefer a 300 2.8 as that particular prime takes t/c's very well and is a good deal easier to walk long distances with than say a 500/600mm.
On the other hand there are those who prefer to find an area they know birds frequent and wait with one of the longer primes, in general if you are doing this then you are getting as close to the birds as possible and so don't have the weight issues to worry about as there is little travel.
I would therefore ask the question of what type of person are you? If you walk a lot with the camera and lens you might notice the increased weight of either a longer prime or zoom lens.
One other consideration is can you get closer to the birds your photographing? Often with a good knowledge of the species and a fair amount of field craft you'll be able to get to within a suitable distance for your 300mm 1.4t/c and 1.5 crop. You'll find some birds more tolerant of us than others and certain times of the day will yield a better chance (ie the early morning).

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks everyone for the responses so far. I have a hide so this coming Sunday I'm going to take it out with my 300mm f4 and 1.4tc. I think my issue was that my smaller tripod might have been slightly moving when triggering, thus making the images look slightly blurred when cropped, so today I used my heavy duty tripod and found it to be much more sturdier thus the images being much sharper when cropped down.

Perhaps rather than get the sigma I should have more patience and use the hide more or even a wireless trigger.

More stalking for the images rather than expecting a longer lens to make it easier.
 
Something else you may need to factor in is that the Big primes, the minimum focus distance is usually longer as well so you would have to be a little farther away.

e.g.
Nikon 300mm f2.8 is 2.2 m
Nikon 400mm f2.8 is 2.9 m
Nikon 500mm f4.0 is 4.0 m
Nikon 600mm f4.0 is 5.0 m

The compares to your existing 300mm f4 which is only 1.45m

So with the long primes (even if you can afford them and carry them), your minimum working distances are quite a bit longer. So what I am trying to say is if your current working distance is say 2.5 m, with your 300mm, with a 600mm prime at its minimum distance of 5m, the bird size wouldn't look a whole lot larger. However if you are currently working in the 4-5m distance bracket with the current 300mm f4, then the super primes would really come into their own, and would allow a much greater amount of magnification.

Not sure how close the Bigma or the 150-500 focuses ?
 
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MarkEvan said:
The best lens for birding can be very subjective. I know a lot of people who like to hike and capture whatever they see while out, most prefer a 300 2.8 as that particular prime takes t/c's very well and is a good deal easier to walk long distances with than say a 500/600mm.
On the other hand there are those who prefer to find an area they know birds frequent and wait with one of the longer primes, in general if you are doing this then you are getting as close to the birds as possible and so don't have the weight issues to worry about as there is little travel.
I would therefore ask the question of what type of person are you? If you walk a lot with the camera and lens you might notice the increased weight of either a longer prime or zoom lens.
One other consideration is can you get closer to the birds your photographing? Often with a good knowledge of the species and a fair amount of field craft you'll be able to get to within a suitable distance for your 300mm 1.4t/c and 1.5 crop. You'll find some birds more tolerant of us than others and certain times of the day will yield a better chance (ie the early morning).

Hope that helps.
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Mark raises a valid point if you pratice your field craft you will get good results.
But there are many times when you are restricted on how close you can come to a subject on some nature reserves or private property or simply good old nature herself stopping you. A portable hide is always useful as is a camo net. The reason i mentioned the Sigma 500mm f4.5 is it is quite light for a prime and good wide open. People say you don't travel far with primes i regulary do anywhere upwards of 5 miles carrying 2 bodies the 600mm f4, 300mm f2.8, teleconvertors and the 70-200mm zoom thrown in. I should add i won't see 50 again as well.
Regards
Richard
 
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lost said:
Mark raises a valid point if you pratice your field craft you will get good results.
But there are many times when you are restricted on how close you can come to a subject on some nature reserves or private property or simply good old nature herself stopping you. A portable hide is always useful as is a camo net. The reason i mentioned the Sigma 500mm f4.5 is it is quite light for a prime and good wide open. People say you don't travel far with primes i regulary do anywhere upwards of 5 miles carrying 2 bodies the 600mm f4, 300mm f2.8, teleconvertors and the 70-200mm zoom thrown in. I should add i won't see 50 again as well.
Regards
Richard
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There's a lesson about carrying the primes around everywhere, I was in Scotland recently hiking up cairngorm primarily birding (though I had bought the camera on holiday). I decided as it was quite a strenuous climb I would leave the camera..........about half way up we came across a lone male Ptarmigan about 8ft away where he stayed for over 30 mins, a little further up we noticed another 2 ptarmigans chasing one another round the mountainside we stopped to watch one bird flying after another and within a couple of minutes both birds were doing a circuit that at one point passed within what must have been 4 feet of me (they must have done this about 3 times). Did I regret my decision about the camera that day.............you bet I did :(.



On a slightly different note, what Bag do you use for all that Rich? I'm in the market for a good long lens bag but am a little undecided at the mo. Primarily looking at the Lowepro pro trekker 400 (reckon I might squash a 500 in there).
 
MarkEvan said:
There's a lesson about carrying the primes around everywhere, I was in Scotland recently hiking up cairngorm primarily birding (though I had bought the camera on holiday). I decided as it was quite a strenuous climb I would leave the camera..........about half way up we came across a lone male Ptarmigan about 8ft away where he stayed for over 30 mins, a little further up we noticed another 2 ptarmigans chasing one another round the mountainside we stopped to watch one bird flying after another and within a couple of minutes both birds were doing a circuit that at one point passed within what must have been 4 feet of me (they must have done this about 3 times). Did I regret my decision about the camera that day.............you bet I did :(.



On a slightly different note, what Bag do you use for all that Rich? I'm in the market for a good long lens bag but am a little undecided at the mo. Primarily looking at the Lowepro pro trekker 400 (reckon I might squash a 500 in there).
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Sod's law mate if wildlife photography was easy we wouldn't do it the bag is a Andy Rouse Viper it's comfortable to wear and carry the kit but there are a couple of design faults that im having changed. The top cover could have done with being 2 1/2 inches deeper and it could have done with a couple of small pockets for batteries and cards. Im lucky to be friends with a Trimmer so no problems there. the beauty of the bag the 1dmk4 can have a teleconvertor fitted and the 600mm with the hood fitted so it is ready for shooting same with the 7d fitted to the 300mm again in shooting position
i suppose i could fit another body to the 70-200mm if i really wanted to.
I bought mine secondhand hardly used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWDGpC-jQx8

Regards
Richard
 
Thanks for the youtube link,it seems exceptionally well thought out will have to add it to the short list.
 
MarkEvan said:
Thanks for the youtube link,it seems exceptionally well thought out will have to add it to the short list.
Click to expand...

It's got many good points but there are a few bad ones, well niggling ones more than bad. If you get really interested pm me and we will try and get a meet up and you can try mine before you splash the cash.
With this type of bag you do need to be fit with what you squeeze in it or you need to be stupid and stubborn like me :D "the kits going with me end of story" ;)
Regards
Richard
 
lost said:
It's got many good points but there are a few bad ones, well niggling ones more than bad. If you get really interested pm me and we will try and get a meet up and you can try mine before you splash the cash.
With this type of bag you do need to be fit with what you squeeze in it or you need to be stupid and stubborn like me :D "the kits going with me end of story" ;)
Regards
Richard
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I might take you up on that offer Rich though it might be a while off yet. Unfortunately I splurged out some cash through ebay on a Lowepro Photo trekker 2 which to be fair though looks in good condition, if I prefer the Viper I can always sell the Lowepro on here and use the money on the other bag.
 
MarkEvan said:
I might take you up on that offer Rich though it might be a while off yet. Unfortunately I splurged out some cash through ebay on a Lowepro Photo trekker 2 which to be fair though looks in good condition, if I prefer the Viper I can always sell the Lowepro on here and use the money on the other bag.
Click to expand...

No problem mate i have just had to buy a Thinktank for going away im glad i did on the way back it had to be measured the only bag i could find below the maxium 250mm deep that could take all my kit i needed :D
Regards
Richard
I now have three backpack bags but i shall probably keep them as they all have different uses.
 
tried many lens,nikon 600f4 sigma 150-500 ,canon 400 5.6 ,nikon 300 2.8, nikon 300 f4...
I find for portability & weight, and image quality, the nikon 300 f4 the best, i never take the 1.4 converter off this set-up, find it very quick and in good light, works well with the 1.7 converter, never tried the 50-500 sigma,but seen some cracking shots with this lens...me ,I'll stick with my 300 f4...mark
 
I would look at the Sigma 120-300mm OS and the 50-500mm OS. Both great lenses.
I did try pretty much every telephoto released and those 2 are great value for money for what they can do.
 
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