Flash triggers with hss

stumac

stumac

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stuart
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Is there such a thing as a flash trigger that will allow full hss? I'm not fussed on the ttl so I don't want to pay pocket wizard prices. I'm using the 603s with my 5d mk2 and being stuck at 1/125 sec is hard work and I don't want to start mucking about with nd filters
 
At 200th I can see the black band( shutter) looked at the pixel kings but have seen mixed reviews
 
arwesa said:
Ive just bought phottix odins...very impressed. worth researching.
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Odins seem to be gathering a following. Price and ease of use (and minimal set-up) see to be its strong point.

What about the ST-E2? Acts as a trigger of sorts but I doubt it'll have the range of a standard trigger.... what kind of shooting are you wanting and how high do you need your shutter speeds to go? I take it is for using wide apertures more than anything else....
 
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yeah wide open alot of the time and sync speed for shooting into the sun etc
 
where is the best place for the odins and will they fully work with any flash,i have 430ex and 550ex i also think i would use 2nd curtian sync alot with these
 
Thank you.... For an extra £100 I can get the mini flex system, is there anything you of the pocket wizards can do that the odins can't??
 
Sorry fat fingers on my phone here, is there anything the pocket wizards can do that the odins can't that would warrant spending the extra??
 
A good review, don't know if I'm reading it wrong but is it suggesting you can only use HHS in manual and not in ettl mode?
 
stumac said:
Sorry fat fingers on my phone here, is there anything the pocket wizards can do that the odins can't that would warrant spending the extra??
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Yes, PWs have Hypersync, optimised HSS, and optimised second curtain sync. No other triggers offer this. The downside is cost, and also potentical range issues due to RF interference with some Canon guns.

Be aware though that the benefit with the 5D2 is limited due to its sluggish shutter. You get much more out of a 7D or 1D3/4. HSS is no free lunch at the best of times due to the inherant power loss, and second curtain sync doesn't work at all above 1/30sec and is barely noticeable until a bit longer than that.

Odins look promising, and have both HSS and second curtain. Those are both E-TTL functions so you get neither with a manual trigger, but you should be able to get a clean 1/200sec with a decent trigger like Phottix Strato II - from Phottix direct or now from UK importers Intro2020.
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes, PWs have Hypersync, optimised HSS, and optimised second curtain sync. No other triggers offer this. The downside is cost, and also potentical range issues due to RF interference with some Canon guns.
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odins support HSS, and second curtain. will go check right now...
 
yes fired shot at my hand at 5000th on ttl (HSS) came up all worked perfectly. hand exposed nicely, background nearly black...as to be expected.

2nd curtain more difficult given I had to find the setting, but when set to longer exposure flash def fired at end of shot.
 
theres also an AEB setting for the flashes...dont know if the PWs have that...I do know they cant be reconfigured on the fly with mixed ttl and manual settings with in the same group and mixed manual across groups.... i.e. use ttl on flash but odins do all the setting up of flashes manually from the camera.
 
arwesa said:
odins support HSS, and second curtain. will go check right now...
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Yes, but Odins don't do Hypersync (with no loss of power), or optimised HSS, or optimised second curtain sync like the PWs.

They are all desirable features for those that need them, shooting outdoor action for example, but you need a camera with a fast shutter like a 7D or 1D3/4 to get most benefit from them.
 
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hyper sync...isnt that where you were saying it destroys your flashes?...

and what the hell is optimised hss or optimised second curtain synch...other than marketing bull.

here's a real world review.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157628093126883/

cant get over the pws lack of screen and configurability and the build quality of these odins is very good..

as for hyper synch...I wonder what would happen if I left the flash manually on full power from the odin head but set hss....hmm will go play.
 
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tried it...basically its all clever enough to know if I shoot at 5000th and set hss and group A to manual and full power, it works perfectly as if head was on camera and delivers normal ttl power flash, If I turn off hss and try and shoot at 5000th the camera realises hss not available on flash head and reduces shutter speed to 250th. so theres some intelligence there. with the odins the flashes are oblivious to all this and just do as the system tells them...I dont have to touch the flashes anymore apart from just to position and switch on and off, even manual settings to them are ttl instructions.

I guess theres no way I can destroy/overload my flashes afterall :lol:
 
thanks all for taking the time,i think im going to go with the odins
 
stumac said:
thanks all for taking the time,i think im going to go with the odins
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reL flashes...def worth looking at strobist. I have all 580EXIIs and the odins are made to be canon compatible, there have been some issues with cheap non canon ttl flashes...the other decent ones Nissin866IIs? from memory are confirmed ok too. I guess as with all things (PWs too) software updates will fix any issues being a new product.
 
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arwesa said:
hyper sync...isnt that where you were saying it destroys your flashes?...
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No. Hypersync in this context is the tightening of the rather slack Canon x-sync window to get faster x-sync speeds with no loss of power. For example, 7D can run up to 1/400sec, 1/500sec out of a 1D3/4.

and what the hell is optimised hss or optimised second curtain synch...other than marketing bull.
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Not marketing bull. HSS is inherantly wastful of power, and the higher the shutter speed is, the more power is wasted. PW's optimised HSS tailors the output and takes the residual power that would otherwise be lost and concentrates it into the usable portion, which increases the brightness by a stop or more over the standard system. Depends on power settings and camera, but the benefit is that kind of order. If you don't need the extra power, the benefit is transferred to a faster recycle time.

It's this feature that has lead to some Canon guns frying, because it encourages you to use HSS much more and drives the guns hard. PW says the problem is a design/build problem with some Canon guns, and it's not their fault. Make up your own mind from the detailed paper PW issued on the subject.

Optimised second curtain sync allows you to adjust the timing of the flash to coincide more exactly with the second curtain closing. On the standard Canon system it fires quite a bit ahead of that, so you still get some ambient blurring in front of a moving subject.

here's a real world review.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157628093126883/

cant get over the pws lack of screen and configurability and the build quality of these odins is very good..

as for hyper synch...I wonder what would happen if I left the flash manually on full power from the odin head but set hss....hmm will go play.
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That's the tail-sync hack, sometimes called hypersync but nothing at all like the HyperSync referred to above. IMHO it's naff - you will get a dramatic loss of power, exposure that varies by about three stops from top to bottom of the frame, and you're restricted to one power output. If it was any good, you'd think manufacturers would have made it a standard feature by now, but apart from that, it's great :D

Edit: BTW, I'm not flying a flag for PW. The PW system has some very clever and useful features, but is expensive and the reliability issues are still there re RF interference with some Canon guns. Odins look good, and the early feedback is encouraging, plus they're cheaper. I have PWs on loan now, and the Odins will be here by the weekend.
 
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HoppyUK said:
Optimised second curtain sync allows you to adjust the timing of the flash to coincide more exactly with the second curtain closing.
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how do you do this given theres no screen etc..is it a plug it in the pc thing? :thinking: surely it would depend what shutter speed youre using etc..so is it something you have to keep tuning?

Thanks for the info..No bones about it Im a novice, I just know these odins have made it very very easy for me.

Will be interested to hear how you get on with the odins. what will you be testing them on? Im expecting there to be bugs found as with all new products so will probably check firmware out in a couple of weeks...
 
arwesa said:
how do you do this given theres no screen etc..is it a plug it in the pc thing? :thinking: surely it would depend what shutter speed youre using etc..so is it something you have to keep tuning?

Thanks for the info..No bones about it Im a novice, I just know these odins have made it very very easy for me.

Will be interested to hear how you get on with the odins. what will you be testing them on? Im expecting there to be bugs found as with all new products so will probably check firmware out in a couple of weeks...
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The PW set up is specific to camera models, as it has to be, but once it's done it's done. Focal plane shutters travel at one fixed speed regardless of exposure time, so no need to adjust for that.
 
HoppyUK said:
The PW set up is specific to camera models, as it has to be, but once it's done it's done. Focal plane shutters travel at one fixed speed regardless of exposure time, so no need to adjust for that.
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Is that the test shot required to calibrate the PW?
 
specialman said:
Is that the test shot required to calibrate the PW?
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Dunno. Not done it yet, but AFAIK with the latest firmware you just tell it what camera you're using and that's it.
 
HoppyUK said:
Dunno. Not done it yet, but AFAIK with the latest firmware you just tell it what camera you're using and that's it.
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Aaah, it's just I watched one of the tutorial Youtube vids on the PW website and the guy was firing off a test shot to calibrate things. Not seen that before.... :)
 
you have to do that with the odins too...read something about getting all the devices synched.
 
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