Gear Change, D800 or Stick with it?

AshC

AshC

Messages
16
Name
Ashley
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi Everyone, Im new to the forum but my dad is on here and holds it in high regard, so I thought it would be the best place to ask thoughts on my tricky gear choice situation.

My main area of interest lies in wildlife photography and has done for a good 4 years or so now. I've always had a keen interest in camera gear too, so often I'm swayed by certain technologies, cameras and lenses. I'm also a bit of a switcher so originally I started on Nikon before my interest in wildlife photography and changed a few times before doing most of my photography on Canon. A brief history of my gear while doing wildlife is:

Nikon D90 + Sigma 150-500mm
Canon 7D + 300mm F4 L IS then added 400mm F5.6, Swapped to sigma 120-300mm F2.8 OS, then to Canon 70-200mm F2.8 L IS MK II using a 2x Mk3 most of the time.
Then sold to get a 300mm F2. 8 L IS
Sold that for a Nikon 500mm F4 VR got a D300 to go with it while using my dads D7000 at the time ( he's now on canon).
Swapped for Canon 300mm F2.8 L IS MK II, had a 1D MK2N for a short time then a 60D, then 70D.

So as you can see I've changed about a bit, and thats just when I was doing wildlife. I've now sold the 300mm MK II and kept the 70D and a few smaller lenses. but Im not highly invested in Canon. The reasons for selling the 500mm Nikon was down to partly inpatient's of learning nikon again, not wanting a D7100 and not being able to afford a D800 which was the camera I really wanted to team with the 500mm. Also the condition of the lens wasn't great and that put me off a little. I sold the 300mm MK II as I didn't feel I was getting what I wanted out of it using mostly a 2x for reach all the time and having so much invested in a lens which only gave me 420mm with a 1.4x. I intended to swap for a 500mm F4 but that fell through.

I purchased a new iMac with some of the lens money as I felt it better for me in uncertain times. Its now left me with a hard choice. Im tempted highly by the D800 still with it's high dynamic range perfect for tricky wildlife subjects with lots of whites and blacks. It's got good AF, and a good enough burst rate for me too. The high megapixels allows me to crop in highly ( I've seen and edited raw files from it and there stunning) and have a DX resolution of 15.5Mpx which compares well to the D7000. The only negative is it leaves me short on a lens, so I'd have to get a 50mm F1.8 to play about with it for now till I can get something better for it that suit my needs. Im thinking of going for the new Tamron 150-600mm when a Nikon mount is released and in the future going for a 200-400mm F4.

My other route would be to just get one of the Canon short lenses such as the 400mm F5.6 or the Tamron and do what I can do for now till I can afford better. It's a tough choice I'm just thrown by the quality of the Nikon. I've always felt the files it produces capture the scene much more faithfully though I seem to do better editing Raw files from the Canon with wildlife. Im a bit of a perfectionist when I want to be so it doesn't help. Sorry for rambling on but it's a big choice for me. I'll leave you with my flickr page to take a look at too. Thanks for reading

http://www.flickr.com/photos/acwildlife/
 
I love my D800 it's an excellent camera and is great for pretty much everything I use it for.

However as your main interest is wildlife photography I don't think it would be your best option.

For similar money, well not much more you should be able to pick up a decent used D3S or for cheaper a D3. I think you might find these more useful for wildlife photography than the D800.

Just my opinion though, although you don't see many wildlife togs using a D800 unless it's there second camera.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the comment, I don't really want to go down the D3 route. The burst rate is high but the megapixels low. Cropability of the D800 files is a win for me, as is the detail in them. You would think with the slower burst rate it wouldn't be a good camera for wildlife but not all wildlife photography is action based and I know of at least 7 extremely good wildlife photographers using D800's and getting stunning results.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
Ruled out the D7100 my dad had issues with it and Im not a fan of it. New 80-400mm suffers from horrible focus breathing due the rear focus design, loose as much as 50% ( minimum focus distance at 400mm I guess), so I wouldn't want to go down that route.
 
A cropped D800 at 16mp won't match the D7100 at 24mp, but if you are really wanting a D800 get the D800E and one of the superteles. The 200-400 I see used by a few wildlife shooters for the versatility, the 500/600/800 VR are predominantly your twitchers. The 400mm f/2.8 VR might be worth a look with a TC as it is said to have the best acuity of the Nikon superteles. The Sigma 300-800mm also looks very versatile albeit heavy, although none of the superteles are light as you know.
 
Hi Ash - I take it your dad hasn't heard you mention the 'N' word!!

I'm going through a similar thought process myself at the moment - no matter how hard I try I can't get the d800 with 200-400 combo out of my mind. When you can get up close and personal to your subject, I'm pretty sure it's unbeatable, but what I do find though is when I go through my images from a normal days shooting, it's rare I find I had enough focal length. If you were unhappy with your 300mm with converters on a canon crop, then unless you're going to change your shooting style and approach, the 200-400 needs to be a complimentary lens in the (getting very expensive) setup rather than your main lens for a full frame camera.

I'm yet to be convinced that the new tamron would produce the results on a d800.

Jeff is showing what the 1d3 and 400mm f5.6 combo can achieve technically, it might be worth remembering that the 5d3 cropped to the same sensor size as the 1d3 still has around 13mp of a higher quality and with much better low light performance, which added to the 400mm would be a very good mid-budget setup
 
Last edited:
pooley said:
Hi Ash - I take it your dad hasn't heard you mention the 'N' word!!


what the 1d3 and 400mm f5.6 combo can achieve technically, it might be worth remembering that the 5d3 cropped to the same sensor size as the 1d3 still has around 13mp of a higher quality and with much better low light performance, which added to the 400mm would be a very good mid-budget setup
Click to expand...

a wise comment and basically follows my earlier advise .the D800 and 200-400mm combo would pull the results without a doubt but imho you need the muscles of rambo to lug it around all day ,and the sheer weight would limit fast reaction to a quick moving target .
mike just get yourself a 1DX we got a spare room when she kicks you out LOL
 
I use a 400mm f/2.8 and the D4 or D800... My choice 95% of the time is the D4 and TC's over the D800 (in DX mode). I would choose a D3s if I were buying a body now (my D4 was bought with insurance moneys from drowning my D3). If you want D800 cropped (dx mode) capabilities; buy a D7000.
 
.......I want to know who your dad is lol.

I'm not much help though, I'm in the same boat as you - Nikon hasn't really been doing it for me lately with the bodies and I've been considering canon.

The D800 does seem to be a very versatile body for your needs though.
 
Phil Young said:
.......I want to know who your dad is lol.

I'm not much help though, I'm in the same boat as you - Nikon hasn't really been doing it for me lately with the bodies and I've been considering canon.

The D800 does seem to be a very versatile body for your needs though.
Click to expand...


Lol I wonder if you already know. Look for the stoat above for the answer! Looking at your images Phil they are very good indeed, I've always been told when it comes to camera systems that the grass isn't always as green on the other side as we think. After plenty of talking to my dad and looking around at images on the web and working things out I might be better off staying on Canon. There's really not much between them in true Image quality when it comes down to it. I suppose if I focus on my wildlife photography then getting the right lens for the job will benefit me much more than any other change right now. It all comes down to what I have to spend and thats the tricky part. Either way I have a lot of thinking to do. Phil I'd say keep with Nikon and consider a D800 after trying one out maybe, but it really depends on what sort of photography you want to do.

sk66 said:
I use a 400mm f/2.8 and the D4 or D800... My choice 95% of the time is the D4 and TC's over the D800 (in DX mode). I would choose a D3s if I were buying a body now (my D4 was bought with insurance moneys from drowning my D3). If you want D800 cropped (dx mode) capabilities; buy a D7000.
Click to expand...

Hi Steven how come you prefer those over the DX crop mode on the D800? Is it mostly down to noise performance? I've seen stunning images from the D800 using heavy crops, that includes the Raw files.
 
I'd recommend you get something and stick to it personally as it sounds like you keep switching gear thinking that something else is better and have got yourself into a circle of forever losing money on changing, instead of taking photos.
 
AshC said:
Hi Steven how come you prefer those over the DX crop mode on the D800? Is it mostly down to noise performance? I've seen stunning images from the D800 using heavy crops, that includes the Raw files.
Click to expand...
The D800 in DX mode is essentially identical to the D7000 but with a slower frame rate. (unless you have the grip and correct batteries, then it's exactly the same) Just not worth the money. I *do* use it that way when conditions allow, but the D800's primary use is for more static situations. (I owned a D7000 for a while)
The D4 (D3s) has more contrast, is less demanding of the lens' IQ (lens +tc's), get's into diffraction later, doesn't need as high of a SS, and is better in low light/high ISO (compared to the D800 in DX mode/ heavy crop).
I generally get better results using the D4 + TC's...
 
Last edited:
I use a D800 mainly for Landscape for which it is an excellent choice. I also use it for wildlife and I find sk66's comments to be pretty accurate. Whilst I have taken some great wildlife shots with it and the cropability option is great I find I miss quite a lot of shots because the AF tracking cannot keep up. I am currently considering a D4s or D4 for this reason and also because its high iso performance is much better.
 
Steve-T said:
I am currently considering a D4s or D4 for this reason and also because its high iso performance is much better.
Click to expand...
If it were my money, I'd buy a D3s (unless money isn't much of a consideration. Insurance bought my D4 when I drowned my D3...)
If going the D4 route I'd probably spend the extra $500 on the D4s now... at that point, it doesn't make much difference on the budget.
 
Last edited:
The problem is the choice between excellent body and not so good lens ( D800 + tamron) or pick up a 400 5.6 and save some pennies towards the dream.

I think knowing the quality of the canon 400 5.6 that I would go that route, its a cracking lens and sharp wide open, fairly light too for what it is.
The rest of your cash can go in the D800/200-400 fund
 
Thanks for the great Comments. The comments aswel as my own thinking and maybe a clearer head now I don't have a cold has helped lol. Perhaps the quality images I've seen in DX mode from a contact are just a few images that were good when many were lost? I don't know for sure. Either way my consideration now lies with getting a lens for the time being to do wildlife photography (probably the most sensible option) or getting a 5D Mark III to have a Good full frame camera to use, get something different with and have a camera that will adapt with me as I hopefully get bigger lenses. The problem with the lens plan is that Im getting lenses I've had before, 400mm F5.6 or 300mm F4 L IS for example although they are good lenses to choice from. At least with the 5D MK III it's going to give me something different not only for wildlife but for other types of photography, landscape, street ect. It's just how much interest I have in that which ultimately I have to consider.
 
AshC said:
My main area of interest lies in wildlife photography and has done for a good 4 years or so now.
Click to expand...



AshC said:
The only negative is it leaves me short on a lens, so I'd have to get a 50mm F1.8 to play about with it for now till I can get something better for it that suit my needs.
Click to expand...


So why buy a camera if it means you can't shoot the thing you have mainly shot for 4 years? You won't be shoot much (if any) wildlife with a D800 and a standard lens. So why do it? I've just looked at your Flickr page and I couldn't see a single shot taken with a short lens.

Personally, I'd concentrate on the lenses you need, and stop worrying about the camera.
 
Last edited:
AshC said:
New 80-400mm suffers from horrible focus breathing due the rear focus design, loose as much as 50% ( minimum focus distance at 400mm I guess), so I wouldn't want to go down that route.
Click to expand...
And the relevance of this for wildlife photography is ... ?
 
Wildlife photography is one of my main areas of interest, and there's no easy answer. Sometimes you need ultimate reach/crop. Sometimes low light, others dynamic range. Sometimes portability. Sometimes burst rate. There's no one body (of any manufacturer) that does everything I would like (D610 size, D7100 pixel density,, D800 image quality, D4 high-ISO and burst, etc etc!).

But if you want to focus on wildlife a 50mm lens will not be good - if you want to enjoy the D800, then it's a superb camera and a 35 or 50mm lens would be a fine place to start. On the same kind of budget and looking at wildlife, I'd look at the new Tamron lens once released, and if good pair that with a D7100. The D800's "DX mode" is just the same as cropping, and the D800 sensor cropped to DX size is 16mp, same as the D7000. The D7100 would give much greater reach.

Another approach would be the Tamron and D610 - less reach (but with 600mm you may not need more) and still great low light performance, FF, slightly higher burst. Pixel density on the subject is less than D800 (but cheaper) and by far less than D7100 (but higher quality), and again 600mm may be sufficient. I enjoy photographing everything from large to small, and often find more reach needed, therefore tendency is to maximise pixels on the subject (i.e. D7100 and longest lens that will give the quality, light and stability needed). In the end it's a compromise, of everything including budget. And D800 eats a lot of budget.
 
Another thing to consider is the cost of Canon lenses in comparison to Nikon if you are going down the Wildlife route, a Nikon 600 f4 costs £7069 at Wex whereas the 600 f4 Canon is £10479
When I decided to buy my current setup, this alone swung me to Nikon
 
Before blowing it all ;) why not hire the bodies and lenses get some shots in and compare which you find the best?

You seem set on the d800 (e?) so you might as well get that - assuming a decent offer comes up. Otherwise wait a bit so you can get the lens you want to couple it with...

Then again, actually having it to play and practice with before you get the big lens... ;)
 
Some interesting comments and suggestions. Tonight I decided to bid on a 200-400mm F4 Nikon on ebay and although I didn't go too high I won lol. Bit of a mad one as I've possibly now got to get from north wales to essex ( bearing in mind I don't drive lol) to pick up the lens. I realised that getting a D800 would limit my ability to get a wildlife lens as I would have been tied to keeping the canon for the time being. You could say why but probably as a way of not letting go of the canon gear more than a need to keep both for any one reason. Now it's a case of selling my canon gear to get the a D800 and settling in with it. I had decided much as "Steve-T" did above that Staying with canon would be great if I had a huge amount to spend but Nikon would give me the best bang for the buck and versatility with the 200-400mm. Im sure i'll kick myself once a 7D MK2 or new 100-400mm comes out but I can't be waiting forever and missing photographic opportunities while I do. Only to find that upon announcement there's another 2-3month wait and the prices are shockingly high! Thats the Canon way and I've learned to wait. I think this way I'll have a great camera and lens combo for my almost all my needs.
 
Nice one Ash, be sure to let us know hoe you get on with it. It particularly interests me as I know you know how to handle this kind of gear, so if you get some quality results it might swing my mind when I finally get to blow some cash!
 
Update to the story, the 200-400 I bid on was on a hacked account. Strangely they set to collection only and I never got stung as I never sent any money. The lens and a camera that was also for sale on this persons account was a fake so it was back to square one. I found a lens in denmark that has an AF squeak in the first minutes of use. I had that with a previous lens ( 500mm F4 VR). I hope it's not bad and will go if I use the lens quite frequently like it did with the 500mm. I managed to get the lens much cheaper than they typically are used including the postage from denmark. Lens will hopefully be with me this week coming or next. I've already purchased a D5200 to use for now till I sell all the canon gear and then I will decide if a D800 is the right choice or hold out for a possible updated model. Only reason I got the 5200 was price and doing buy now pay later so I've got the money to get a D800 sooner. As it happens the quality Im seeing from the 24Mpx sensor is fantastic. The camera handles well although small in the hand so a battery grip has been ordered. Im just keeping my fingers crossed that the lens is a good one with this AF squeak worrying me. I'll keep you all informed.
 
lens received and it's great. Had a nice outing with it today. Got some nuthatches in front of the camera. Here's one changed from landscape to portrait and cropped from 24Mpx to 6Mpx at ISO 1600, The nikon sensor is very good.

 
Ive been on a one man crusade against hacked ebay listings. They generally want to be contacted via another email which is in the listing or have a real low buy it now price.
I usually message the account asking a question and that normally prompts them to inform Ebay of the hack.

Glad you didn't get stung though

Like this one. I've busted this advert on a number of accounts now

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-D4-...Cameras_DigitalCameras_JN&hash=item2a39b1cfc5
 
Last edited:
Thanks, it's just so hard to know when there hacked and when there not. Any listening could seem as real as the next, I was certainly fooled and Im quite savvy with things like this I guess. I think the real issue is people with overly simple passwords, if everyone had a better password then the accounts wouldn't get hacked, perhaps ebay should be better at making sure everyone has secure passwords like apple have done in the past.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top