Godox AD1200PRO

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mike
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I know know the meaning of frustration - due to the size of the AD1200PRO battery it can not be sent with the main kit via air freight - so direct from the Godox factory I have a nice shiny new kit and waiting for FedEx to sort the delivery of the battery - all those fantastic tests I could be running :)

Mike
 
I thought there were two battery options for the AD1200Pro - one that delivers maximum performance but is not airline friendly, and another that doesn't but is.
 
I thought there were two battery options for the AD1200Pro - one that delivers maximum performance but is not airline friendly, and another that doesn't but is.

There is but the base kit comes with the full capacity battery WB1200H (about 500 1/1 pops) and the air travel version WB1200 is about 200 1/1 pops but not seen anyone testing that yet

Mike
 
For the sake of clarity Mike, in further posts of this kind. Please mention your affiliation with Godox.
Either in your signature or in the first couple of opening or closing words
Thanks :)
 
So there is no confusion I have been sent a Godox AD1200PRO from the factory for testing

First thing you notice is the shear weight of the gear, having got used to lighter units over recent years and the portability that gives the photographer this is a major step change

I am trying to work out why you might need such a unit

1. You need more power
I have never struggled with a 600 W/s unit (but will be great to see if it can overpower sunlight)

2. You need same power but want more flashes per battery
As a simple choice it is far lighter to carry an AD600PRO and a couple of spare batteries and cheaper

3. you need same power but need shorter recycle time
As in trying to keep up with 12fps the power level is too low with existing gear, for me this is a real interesting area, particularly with HSS

When you distill it down like that you come close to the basis of selecting any power flash

For 1. I expect that people like @Garry Edwards will have experience of bigger lights in a commercial studio
For 2. Light might in such a place that you don't want to disturb it changing batteries
For 3. Greater use before overheat protection kicks in is always an advantage

First thing that stands out is that the charging point is at the rear of the battery so you cant charge a battery whilst in use as you can do (but probably should not do ) on other models, everything else looks familiar if you are using Godox products

Mike
 
So there is no confusion I have been sent a Godox AD1200PRO from the factory for testing
Yes, good point, people should always be told when a poster has a financial arrangement with the manufacturer / seller.
First thing you notice is the shear weight of the gear, having got used to lighter units over recent years and the portability that gives the photographer this is a major step change

I am trying to work out why you might need such a unit

1. You need more power
I have never struggled with a 600 W/s unit (but will be great to see if it can overpower sunlight)
Good point, it’s massively heavy for what it is, and expensive too.
1. You need more power
I have never struggled with a 600 W/s unit (but will be great to see if it can overpower sunlight)

Another good point, I’m guessing that some fashion photographers will buy these, because they need to have complete control of the ‘weather’ outdoors. I can’t see it being much use for photographing animals such as horses, they don’t care about the flash but they won’t be happy with the loud crack when the flash is fired at full power.

600W/s certainly can overpower sunlight, provided that the light can be placed close enough. 1200 W/s will offer an advantage, but a fairly minor one, because with everything else being equal it will produce just one stop more light.

There are still a few members here who came along on one of my outdoor shoots, nearly 9 years ago. The weather varied but we had brilliant sunlight for much of the time and we managed perfectly well with 600 W/s flashes, I took 7 flash units with me but from memory didn’t need to use all of them https://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting-blog/location-fashion-shoot-with-the-safari-li-on/ I would have been happy to take the Godox 1200 with me to shoots like this, especially as I never do any of the carrying, but wouldn’t actually need that much power.
3. you need same power but need shorter recycle time
As in trying to keep up with 12fps the power level is too low with existing gear, for me this is a real interesting area, particularly with HSS

The fast recycling time could certainly be useful, but to get the fastest recycling the flash needs to be set to just 9.375 W.s, so that’s into Alexander Armstrong territory outdoors.
So there is no confusion I have been sent a Godox AD1200PRO from the factory for testing


Yes, I’ve used very serious levels of power in the past, indoors, but that’s very much in the past. At one point I had 6 x Elinchrom Chic 2 generator flashes (2,400 W/s each), an Elinchrom 1200 mono head, a 6,000 W/s Elinchrom generator flash and a few others. I needed that kind of power, especially when shooting on 5” x 4” large format, and definitely needed when shooting on 10” x 8”, usually at f/90 and sometimes at f//128, but large format is now pretty much dead for studio photography and today, shooting exclusively on digital, 400 W/s is on the high side of what’s actually needed.

I’ve had a play with this unit myself, it looks pretty solidly built, although with an old-fashioned retro look, but I agree with you, I don’t know what it’s for. My guess is that it’s basically a vanity product, produced by Godox to show that they can do it and compete with the likes of Bron. Certainly some people have bought it – Lencarta sold out of their initial stock very quickly – but now that I have to pay for my equipment myself, I won’t be joining that band of owners.
 
So into the initial tests, compared to AD600PRO both using kit reflectors it is 1 stop more powerful, exactly as expected in normal mode and exactly 1 stop more in HSS, so no surprises, checked at 1/1, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 on trigger and consistent 1 stop difference.

What I am noticing is that 1/1 to 1/2 and subsequent drops are not necessarily a full stop difference on both flashes, but they perform that in the same way

Mike
 
Just realised there is a 4th reason

4. Shorter flash duration compared to lower powered lights for same output power

so back to use 3

There are times I would like to be able to shoot at 12fps as my D5 can so can I shoot a 1 second burst and have greater power?
My initial tests seem to indicate that yes you can and you gain about 1/3 stop in normal mode and 1 2/3 stop in HSS - now you might ask why such a small gain in normal mode, well I put that down to the fact that the AD1200PRO takes twice as long to recharge as the AD600PRO, which then begs the question of where the extra power comes from in HSS

Mike
 
HSS power seems to follow the same pattern as the AD600PRO

If you meter for 1/250s (using Sekonic 858) and follow the rule that for each stop in shutter you lose a stop as in 1/250 to 1/500 is one stop and then we add the HSS loss of 1 2/3 stops we get our exposure

1/250 is X-sync on the D5 so normal flash metering

so we would get something approximating to;

1/250 f25
1/500 would be f25 - (1 + 1 2/3 stops) = f10
1/2000 would be f25 - (3 + 1 2/3 stops) = f5
1/8000 would be f25 - (5 + 1 2/3 stops) = f2.5

Mike
 
1200ws isn't really a lot more than 600Ws

I easily overpower the sun with 1 or 2 600 w/s flash heads

I guess if you want to overpower the sun with a big softbox...
 
HSS power seems to follow the same pattern as the AD600PRO

If you meter for 1/250s (using Sekonic 858) and follow the rule that for each stop in shutter you lose a stop as in 1/250 to 1/500 is one stop and then we add the HSS loss of 1 2/3 stops we get our exposure

1/250 is X-sync on the D5 so normal flash metering

so we would get something approximating to;

1/250 f25
1/500 would be f25 - (1 + 1 2/3 stops) = f10
1/2000 would be f25 - (3 + 1 2/3 stops) = f5
1/8000 would be f25 - (5 + 1 2/3 stops) = f2.5

Mike
Sorry, but I'm confused by this because you haven't stated the flash to subject distance, so the figures don't mean anything to me.

But let's assume that the flash to subject distance is the minimum practicable, say 1 metre - obviously if it's further than that then the output figures will be even lower.
On a bright sunny day the ambient light, 100 ISO, 1/8000th sec, would require f/2, so the f/2.5 from the HSS isn't enough to dominate the lighting . . .
 
I am trying to work out why you might need such a unit

There's always been a market for the Elinchrom Ranger 1200 Ws packs so the demand is there and they've never been cheap so this price won't hold it back much but perhaps this is almost a Trojan horse of sorts?

Once you have this you could save buying a lot of other kit, the head looks robust and should work well in a studio then let's say you want a ringflash with (relatively) high power, if you go Profoto/Broncolor that'll be at least £2.2k and you still need to add on a pack (their cheapest are £10k/£5k respectively). It's not really that much power either, my favourite softbox is super inefficient and could happily eat 800 Ws at a small aperture.

I forget what other optional accessories they announced so there's probably more but they're fairly generous on what they bundle with the kit already (almost every other brand will charge you), the cost savings could be huge and it's yet another slot Godox has filled in its line up against the traditional brands.
 
Sorry, but I'm confused by this because you haven't stated the flash to subject distance, so the figures don't mean anything to me.

But let's assume that the flash to subject distance is the minimum practicable, say 1 metre - obviously if it's further than that then the output figures will be even lower.
On a bright sunny day the ambient light, 100 ISO, 1/8000th sec, would require f/2, so the f/2.5 from the HSS isn't enough to dominate the lighting . . .

flash to subject distance is irrelevant, this is a generic calculation, at any distance the same formula applies

I will be testing that good old sunny 16 rule later
 
There's always been a market for the Elinchrom Ranger 1200 Ws packs so the demand is there and they've never been cheap so this price won't hold it back much but perhaps this is almost a Trojan horse of sorts?

Once you have this you could save buying a lot of other kit, the head looks robust and should work well in a studio then let's say you want a ringflash with (relatively) high power, if you go Profoto/Broncolor that'll be at least £2.2k and you still need to add on a pack (their cheapest are £10k/£5k respectively). It's not really that much power either, my favourite softbox is super inefficient and could happily eat 800 Ws at a small aperture.

I forget what other optional accessories they announced so there's probably more but they're fairly generous on what they bundle with the kit already (almost every other brand will charge you), the cost savings could be huge and it's yet another slot Godox has filled in its line up against the traditional brands.

You will notice I have given 4 reasons why someone might need this, and am sure that there are other justifications out there, I can only base on my experience where for 15 years a Bowen’s 500 or an SB800 might have been the choices

as far as I am concerned this (last 5 years) has to be the biggest change in lighting possibilities that has occurred since I started using a camera

mike
 
The need for big power was typically from using large format film where low film speed was frequently combined with very small apertures.

I suppose the same could hold true today for those who insist on getting the absolute maximum quality from the sensor (base ISO) and need to maximize DOF in a single frame (w/o tilt/swing), especially with MF. And of course, if you combine those factors with ND filters (slower SS's) then the added power is even more useful. But the real/practical need for that kind of power these days is going to be uncommon IMO.
 
flash to subject distance is irrelevant, this is a generic calculation, at any distance the same formula applies

I will be testing that good old sunny 16 rule later
Yes, your generic calculation should help us to understand how one flash compares to others in terms of HSS. But, flash to subject distance is in bright sunlight is 100% relevant, because without knowing this crucial data we have no way of knowing whether, at high shutter speeds, a flash is capable of overwhelming the ambient light.

And, as this level of power isn't needed for studio photography, we need to know how useful it will be in bright sunlight - not that many experienced photographers would use HSS for this type of photography anyway.
 
1200ws isn't really a lot more than 600Ws

I easily overpower the sun with 1 or 2 600 w/s flash heads

I guess if you want to overpower the sun with a big softbox...

Actually it is double the power or 1 stop more, all things being equal (which may or may not be a lot, depending on how you quantify a lot)

Question is do you mean overpower the sun or overpower the ambient? For me the base is the sunny 16 rule, so to overpower the sun we are looking at an output greater than f22 at ISO 100 at 1/100s (need a shutter speed as long or longer than T 0.1)

What method of flash are you using? Normal, tail Sync or HSS? Different gear has different options available

My intention is to test with standard reflector, a 90cm Octa and whatever else come to hand

Mike
 
That was my point. One stop difference means very little nowadays

The real reason to use this is when you want to move the flash away from the subject to get more even lighting , or you are shooting through an inefficient modifier

I kind of see this working when you want to light the environment evenly, but then have separate lighting on a subject

I think we are guilty of seeing things in terms of lighting people, when there are photographers out there that light big things like buildings

To answer your question, I usully shoot outdoors with one or two phottix Indra 500's and there is more than enough power to overpower the sun for anything normal I shoot with a bridal couple

But... I sometimes use them more sneakily. For example...if the wedding is in an outside pergola overlooking the sea, with shrubs around the edge, everyone sat in the pergola is in the dark, compared to the blazing sun and typical reflection we get off the sea, I'm popping my lighting outside, and bouncing light off the roof. This is where a lot more power is really useful. Effectively I'm using the white ceiling of the pergola as big reflector. Yes 2 x 500ws cross lighting and bounced off a ceiling from a distance improves things a lot, but it's right at the limit
 
I cant go out but can test some stuff indoors (will skew the light readings but constantly

I used a 60cm pop up beauty dish at 2 metres

Tested at ISO 100 -1/250 Norm and 1/8000 HSS on the Sekonic 858

AD600PRo + H600P (the extension lead because I hate a big flash at the top of stand)

Norm f16
HSS F1.6

AD1200PRO

Norm f25
HSS f2.5

So 1 1/3 stop between both in both power forms

Both lose 6 2/3 stops in the HSS compared to norm flash (shutter speed dropped 5 stops i.e. 1 2/3 stops is the HSS penalty)

so AD600 setup is 1 1/3 stop brighter than sunny 16 rule so overpowers sunlight in norm and would not in HSS

and AD1200PRO is 2 2/3 stops brighter that sunny 16 in norm and over a stop brighter in HSS

So even on the brightest day the AD1200PRO should overpower the sunlight

Will try a few other modifiers when I can get out as well as the original Godox 1200

Mike
 
I bought one of these. I love it. I find the pack and head system extremely portable and flexible.
Right now its being used almost exclusively in my 120cm parabolic with focussing rod and the fact that the lamp head is so light means I can send it out on a boom with no worries.
I would definitely not feel so confident doing that with a 600j battery monobloc.
Another reason I love this is because of the very short flash duration at serious power coupled with the recycle time.
Only you know if you need this but for me the AD1200 is a very useful bit of equipment.
I will almost certainly be getting another and I'll hope that godox puts out a 2 head unit in the future.
 
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