Critique Great Wall of China

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Hi all,

As part of our two week honeymoon, we spent two amazing days hiking the great wall (16km in total). Here are a selection of those photos, although you can see more if you click on any of the images below to access my Flickr account.

Day 1:






 
Super shots RJ, looks like you had some good weather as well. What an amazing opportunity to see something so unique.
 
Very nice indeed - would love to go myself Maybe we should arrange a TP F&C meet over there......

Mark
 
Super shots RJ, looks like you had some good weather as well. What an amazing opportunity to see something so unique.

Thanks, Andy. We did indeed have some nice weather (in fact, we didn't have a single drop of rain for our entire two weeks!), although there was some intense haze at times that restricted visibility far into the distance.

Wonderful images, RJ, all of 'em!

Many thanks, Paul. :)

Beautiful shots... makes me want to visit myself!

We had a great trip and the Wall is amazing! I would definitely recommend a visit, although be prepared, as it is very steep and rugged at times.

Very nice indeed - would love to go myself Maybe we should arrange a TP F&C meet over there......

Mark

Thanks, Mark. When we arrived early morning on the second day around 6:30am, we could see a group of photographers in the distance meeting up to catch the sunrise, although they were all sporting digital cameras...
 
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What a great set of images. The shots of the wall receding into the distance really suit the square format and the haze just adds to the atmosphere.
 
What a great set of images. The shots of the wall receding into the distance really suit the square format and the haze just adds to the atmosphere.

Thanks! Yeah, I do really like composing for the square format (although I'm secretly lusting after a 6x7 camera...).
 
I Shoulda posted earlier. These are just great. Very strong set.
I'll never get there in person but these take me on an adventure. Thanks very much for sharing.
 
Thanks for the kind words, Trevor. :)

It's truly an amazing place. We covered 16km, but apparently 8,000km of Wall was built in total over the centuries.

 
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Great pics, really give a good feeling for the place and scale of the wall. It really is steep in places isn't it?!

I was there in 1988, must dig out my Kodachromes! ;)
 
Great pics, really give a good feeling for the place and scale of the wall. It really is steep in places isn't it?!

I was there in 1988, must dig out my Kodachromes! ;)

Thanks, Des :). And you're very right, it is very steep in places.

It would be very cool to see your Kodachromes from 25 years ago.
 
RJ, some great shots there, representing some memories that should last a lifetime. I think the set is fantastic, and you should be very proud. but you asked for critique, so without any claim to special knowledge or skill or credential etc, here goes:

1) Tumbledown house. I really like shots like this, but the wires above are a real problem here.
2) Wife pointing at the wall... she is so prominent she demands to be the "subject", and she's out of focus, which is disturbing. There were a few shots like this where I thought you were really struggling to get enough DoF, and MF isn't your friend from that point of view (even most 35mm lenses will have had difficuty). There's also a general problem with many of the Wall vistas, including this, from the haze. Sadly it's sufficient to soften all detail and contrast, but doesn't quite soften enough to be a romantic mist, so generally it takes from the shots rather than adds to them. OTOH, I really like this sort of composition, the pointing the finger really leading the eye into those distant towers.
3) Towers on peaks. In this one, perhaps my favourite, you've got nice contrast in the foreground, a great composition leading up the succession of misty ridges. I think you've really worked the haze well here; great shot!
4) Red ribbon... nice colour contrast of the ribbon and stones.
5 and 6) Receding Wall... both have the haze problem, but I think no 6 works better with the foreground tower.

7) Day 2, hazy sunrise... it's a little difficult to work out what's going on here, eg not sure if that's a _really_ hazy sunrise, or the moon setting. Without the other contextual clues, I woudn't have guessed this as the Wall.
8 and 10) Wall through archway. Both of these are a type of shot I really like, although I think they would work better with the greater DoF from a smaller film. In 8, the subject is the Wall but it's out of focus; in 10 the Wall is in focus, but is less interesting compositionally: the little tower top centre in 8 is excellent.
9) Really like the composition here, such a shame about the haze, but you've done a great job with it.
12) Really like this one, too, with this feeling you're about to descend the invisible stairs (such a shame steps don't work well from the top). As someone else said, you've really worked the square format well in these.

Fantastic set, RJ, and obviously a wonderful trip.
 
RJ, some great shots there, representing some memories that should last a lifetime. I think the set is fantastic, and you should be very proud. but you asked for critique, so without any claim to special knowledge or skill or credential etc, here goes:

Thanks, Chris, for both the kind words and the feedback. It's hard to improve without critique, so I appreciate your taking the time to respond.

1) Tumbledown house. I really like shots like this, but the wires above are a real problem here.

Interesting point. Ordinarily I would agree and would look for angles that minimised those wires, although in this case I feel like they are important as they convey how ramshackle that place really was (this is local motel/guest house accommodation) and I think they add context (but maybe not?). Looking at the photo again, I think that the photo's biggest weakness is that it isn't as suited to the square format as some of the other photos.

2) Wife pointing at the wall... she is so prominent she demands to be the "subject", and she's out of focus, which is disturbing. There were a few shots like this where I thought you were really struggling to get enough DoF, and MF isn't your friend from that point of view (even most 35mm lenses will have had difficuty). There's also a general problem with many of the Wall vistas, including this, from the haze. Sadly it's sufficient to soften all detail and contrast, but doesn't quite soften enough to be a romantic mist, so generally it takes from the shots rather than adds to them. OTOH, I really like this sort of composition, the pointing the finger really leading the eye into those distant towers.

I have very deliberately chosen to use medium format for its thin depth of field. For me, the picture is about the huge, steep section of the Wall we were about to climb, not about my wife. My wife was used as a framing device and I have intentionally blurred her with a large aperture as that isn't what I want people looking at. I know that I've heard folks say not to have 'foreground bokeh' or OOF foregrounds, but they do it all the time in movies (lots of over the shoulder shots, etc.) and I feel that it adds depth and character to the photograph. It'd be interesting to hear what others think about this as well though, but I'd say I always aim for selective focusing with large apertures in most of my pics.

With regard to the haze, I actually really like it in most of these photos; it looks soft and filmy to me.

3) Towers on peaks. In this one, perhaps my favourite, you've got nice contrast in the foreground, a great composition leading up the succession of misty ridges. I think you've really worked the haze well here; great shot!
4) Red ribbon... nice colour contrast of the ribbon and stones.

Thanks! Obviously I have no control over the haze, but the bits of the wall in the foreground were closer than some of the sections in other photos, so it looks a bit clearer.

5 and 6) Receding Wall... both have the haze problem, but I think no 6 works better with the foreground tower.

I actually really like the haze in these, I thought it looked better than the pics I've seen without the haze from others. I thought it added to the film look, but I guess I could be looking at these with rose-tinted glasses.

7) Day 2, hazy sunrise... it's a little difficult to work out what's going on here, eg not sure if that's a _really_ hazy sunrise, or the moon setting. Without the other contextual clues, I woudn't have guessed this as the Wall.

Well, first thing is that I don't think that the square format worked as well here and I really needed a longer lens (I only owned an 80mm lens for my SQ-a at the time). It was an incredibly hazy sunrise, so much so that you could stare directly at the sun, and it looked like nothing I've ever seen before in person, so I can imagine that it's even more difficult to figure out what's going on from this picture.

RJ, some great shots there, representing some memories that should last a lifetime. I think the set is fantastic, and you should be very proud. but you asked for critique, so without any claim to special knowledge or skill or credential etc, here goes:

8 and 10) Wall through archway. Both of these are a type of shot I really like, although I think they would work better with the greater DoF from a smaller film. In 8, the subject is the Wall but it's out of focus; in 10 the Wall is in focus, but is less interesting compositionally: the little tower top centre in 8 is excellent.

Again, I've very deliberately used large apertures for these; I personally find it a bit boring when everything is in focus and it's one of the reasons I love to shoot medium format. I have another version of number 8 with the wall in focus on my home computer, but I've already posted a bunch of pictures of the wall, so I wanted to highlight the interior of the very stark tower instead with this picture.

I really like the OOF foregrounds, but maybe it's just me?

9) Really like the composition here, such a shame about the haze, but you've done a great job with it.

Thanks regarding the composition. I thought that the haze looked just about right here, but I could be wrong.

12) Really like this one, too, with this feeling you're about to descend the invisible stairs (such a shame steps don't work well from the top). As someone else said, you've really worked the square format well in these.

Thanks, I really liked the autumn colours in this final shot.

I do really like the square format and I think it generally works really well for me. It's not necessarily the best format for all situations, but I'm stubborn, so I'll try it anyway!

Thanks again for the feedback.
 
RJ, thanks for your response... I did think afterwards I might have been a bit harsh; specifically, I didn't comment on a number of things I really like, such as the way you have used the Wall compositionally throughout the shots. And I should also say, I found this hard as my opinion kept changing about favourites, the effects of the haze etc. So maybe I should have cut some of that back. No intention to offend, but that was my opinion at the time (less the good points I failed to mention, my bad, sorry!).

Out of focus foreground is indeed a controversial issue, probably a Marmite one (love 'em or hate 'em). As you mention, some folk just say NO; however I've used them quite a lot, but usually as a framing device. So I think the one through the arch works quite well. I've looked again at no 2, and tried to imagine it printed and on the wall. For me, it doesn't work well; the figure is too strong and the out of focus distortion is too great; she takes all my eye time, and the rest of the picture doesn't balance her.

I was amazed when you mentioned the ruin in no 1 was local accommodation; with that little extra info, the wires do indeed support the point!

While the haze still bothers me a bit, as mentioned that varies each time I look at the shots. But you were there, clearly having a great time, and these are fantastic shots that reflect what you saw, with oddles of added RJ skill; they will look great if printed well, and remind you of those days forever!
 
RJ, thanks for your response... I did think afterwards I might have been a bit harsh; specifically, I didn't comment on a number of things I really like, such as the way you have used the Wall compositionally throughout the shots. And I should also say, I found this hard as my opinion kept changing about favourites, the effects of the haze etc. So maybe I should have cut some of that back. No intention to offend, but that was my opinion at the time (less the good points I failed to mention, my bad, sorry!).

Out of focus foreground is indeed a controversial issue, probably a Marmite one (love 'em or hate 'em). As you mention, some folk just say NO; however I've used them quite a lot, but usually as a framing device. So I think the one through the arch works quite well. I've looked again at no 2, and tried to imagine it printed and on the wall. For me, it doesn't work well; the figure is too strong and the out of focus distortion is too great; she takes all my eye time, and the rest of the picture doesn't balance her.

I was amazed when you mentioned the ruin in no 1 was local accommodation; with that little extra info, the wires do indeed support the point!

While the haze still bothers me a bit, as mentioned that varies each time I look at the shots. But you were there, clearly having a great time, and these are fantastic shots that reflect what you saw, with oddles of added RJ skill; they will look great if printed well, and remind you of those days forever!


Thanks again, Chris, for your considered response and no offence taken in any way; you've brought up some interesting points and it's good to hear what others think.

I certainly had a certain look in mind when I was shooting these and I made very deliberate decisions on camera type, exposure, composition, emulsion, etc. to achieve that look.

I'm presently really happy with how these turned out and think they look good printed (all of my SE Asia photos are in albums now), although it will be interesting to see what I think of these photos in a few years time (in a purely photographic sense; the memories of the trip itself will not diminish), especially given that I'm still quite new to photography and learning all the time. I know that I look back at photos I took even just 10 months ago and wonder what the heck I was thinking!

Thanks once more for the comments. :)
 
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