Have I got this right (ISO, Aperture, shutter speed) ?

hyperseven

hyperseven

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Dave
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First time DSLR owner, last camera was a Fuji 600exr and jut used on full auto.

watched a few YouTube vids and this is what I have condensed it to, is this right or can someone point me the right direction to a table I could print out and carry around until it sticks :)

Aperture (how much light gets in)
F value low->more light->low DOF
high->less light->high DOF

Shutter speed (exposure length)
slower - blurred
faster - less blurred, for movement

ISO (sensitivity of sensor)
low - less noise - more light needed
high - more noise - less light needed

Set the aperture and shutter for the desired shot then start at a ow ISO and work up until correct amount of light is achieved in image?
 
Basically in a nutshell, that is correct. When I started, I just went out and picked a scene, and then played with each setting individually to find out what they did and how they effected the scene. You have to do this in full manual mode though. Give it a go. You can get some really awesome shots by doing this, and you're learning on the way.
 
hyperseven said:
Set the aperture and shutter for the desired shot then start at a ow ISO and work up until correct amount of light is achieved in image?
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unless the iso gets too high for your liking then you may want to compromise on aperture or shutter speed.. depends on what you feel most important... if moving subjects then iso is less important and shutter moreso... once you are comfortable with what each one does then there are many permutations and up to you to decide depending on the shot...

In other words theres no set rules or guide on what you change first or last...however what you wrote is a fair starting point :)
 
As others have said - that's correct in principle.

What you're describing is the 'exposure triangle' which you will find lots of information about.

You've essentially got three variables.

The key is to decide what's most important.

If you want a particular depth of focus then aperture is your starting point. Likewise if movement of the subject is key then the shutter speed is your starting point.

How wide the aperture opens (f stop) and how long it's open for (shutter speed) determine exposure. It's give and take. Double one and you half the other for the same exposure.

ISO is the third variable. It's usually raised to attain a faster shutter speed with a given aperture but regardless of why - adjusting it allows you to adjust the exposure when you can't or don't want to increase or decrease the other two.

It's not really a 4th but + or - exposure compentation can also be used in the equation.
 
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Cheers for the replies, have found lots of images of the exposure triangle, will find a good one to print and laminate.
 
I find it's easier to think in terms of the effects rather than causes

Aperture: Lower F number (Bigger hole) = Brighter picture, Less DoF
Shutter Speed: Longer Time = Brighter picture, More motion blur
ISO: Higher Number = Brighter picture, More noise
(and the reverse for all three)

If you are just starting out I'd pick the one you want to change and automate one or both of the others (i.e. Tv or Av mode). It's quite rare to need to set both shutter speed and aperture precisely in a single shot.
 
Mr Will said:
I find it's easier to think in terms of the effects rather than causes

Aperture: Lower F number (Bigger hole) = Brighter picture, Less DoF
Shutter Speed: Longer Time = Brighter picture, More motion blur
ISO: Higher Number = Brighter picture, More noise
(and the reverse for all three)
.
Click to expand...


I am sorry but ? None of the above produce a brighter picture and the opposite a less brighter.. I can get an f22 shutter 1000 iso 1600 as bright as i want...and f2.8, shutter 100 and iso 100 as dull as I want..

Nothing you ahve listed is responsible for bright or dull picture..
 
KIPAX said:
I am sorry but ? None of the above produce a brighter picture and the opposite a less brighter.. I can get an f22 shutter 1000 iso 1600 as bright as i want...and f2.8, shutter 100 and iso 100 as dull as I want..

Nothing you ahve listed is responsible for bright or dull picture..
Click to expand...

I agree,
Unless of course you leave both the other 2 components of the exposure triangle unchanged.

IE: You are shooting manual and ONLY change either shutter, apperture or ISO, in which case the above statement is actually correct but for a newbie I would advise using exposure compensation in Av or Tv mods to achieve brighter (over) or darker (under) exposures.
 
dinners said:
It's not really a 4th but + or - exposure compentation can also be used in the equation.
Click to expand...

If you're in manual mode controlling ISO, Aperture and Shutter Speed, exposure compensation has no effect.

The 4th way to control exposure is through the use of ND filters.
 
KIPAX said:
I am sorry but ? None of the above produce a brighter picture and the opposite a less brighter.. I can get an f22 shutter 1000 iso 1600 as bright as i want...and f2.8, shutter 100 and iso 100 as dull as I want..

Nothing you ahve listed is responsible for bright or dull picture..
Click to expand...

What are you understanding by bright/dull? I'm struggling to see the confusion...

Take a picture at f/5.6, 1/120th, ISO 400. Now take a picture at f/2.8, 1/120th, ISO 400. The second one will be brighter.
 
Mr Will said:
What are you understanding by bright/dull? I'm struggling to see the confusion...

Take a picture at f/5.6, 1/120th, ISO 400. Now take a picture at f/2.8, 1/120th, ISO 400. The second one will be brighter.
Click to expand...

He is saying that in all but manual mode, one of the other two parameters will be changed by the camera to ensure the exposure remains the same.
I suspect, as I believe Kipax does that due to the nature of his question the OP isnt going to be shooting in manual mode.
 
Mr Will said:
What are you understanding by bright/dull? I'm struggling to see the confusion...

Take a picture at f/5.6, 1/120th, ISO 400. Now take a picture at f/2.8, 1/120th, ISO 400. The second one will be brighter.
Click to expand...

But thats not what you posted...


 
st599 said:
If you're in manual mode controlling ISO, Aperture and Shutter Speed, exposure compensation has no effect.

The 4th way to control exposure is through the use of ND filters.
Click to expand...

A big yes to ND filters but once fitted, the same fundamental rules apply.

Hyperseven was really just asking for confirmation that he understood the relationship and effects of Aperture / ISO / Shutter Speed which he does.

Understanding the basic principles of the exposure triangle is good practice irrespective of what mode is being used.
 
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Mr Will said:
It's what I meant!

Was just trying to understand what part of my post wasn't clear...
Click to expand...


I thought it was clear the point you are making, yet Kipax saying he can make a given collection of settings "as bright or as dull as he wants"....that confused me!

Surely if you shoot at f22, 1/1000 at ISO1600 that exposure will be as dull or bright as the light allows - how will you make that as bright as you want? It will require 15EV of light for an average exposure. Same goes for shooting at f/2.8 for 1/125 at ISO100, (1/125 instead of 1/100 quoted for ease of calculation) which will require much less light (About 10EV, so 5 stops less light than the previous example) for an average exposure....how you are going to make that as dull as you like??

Have I missed something here??
 
First, yes hyperseven has correctly understood the variables.

The point that seems to be causing confusion is the post that apparently equated a larger aperture with a brighter picture. "Brighter" in the sense that if you're viewing through the lens at taking aperture the image will be brighter; but you'll almost certainly apply one of the other controls to "standardise" the result to give the correct exposure. Exposure isn't the amount of light let in alone; it's a combination.

I suspect that what was meant by being able to make a scene as bright or dim as you want is simply referring to the fact that (given a short enough exposure) you can make a white card reproduce as black; and given enough exposure, a black card as white. Kipax explicitly made the point that even if you fixed the aperture and ISO, you could still get any degree of brightness you wanted - the shutter speed was surely implied as the extra variable.
 
KIPAX said:
I am sorry but ? None of the above produce a brighter picture and the opposite a less brighter.. I can get an f22 shutter 1000 iso 1600 as bright as i want...and f2.8, shutter 100 and iso 100 as dull as I want..
..
Click to expand...

it looks from the way its written that by setting the f/stop at 22 then the shutter speed to 1000th then the iso to 1600 , he can get a brighter or less bright picture ,,,,im pretty sure he didnt mean it like that ,,,,,,
 
donut said:
it looks from the way its written that by setting the f/stop at 22 then the shutter speed to 1000th then the iso to 1600 , he can get a brighter or less bright picture ,,,,im pretty sure he didnt mean it like that ,,,,,,
Click to expand...

Agreed - he did fix all three variables. I missed that. The only one left is to use levels in PhotoShop :)
 
The Exposure slider in Lightroom perhaps.... ;)
 
KIPAX said:
I am sorry but ? None of the above produce a brighter picture and the opposite a less brighter.. I can get an f22 shutter 1000 iso 1600 as bright as i want...and f2.8, shutter 100 and iso 100 as dull as I want..

Nothing you ahve listed is responsible for bright or dull picture..
Click to expand...


This is exactly what confuses beginners! We all know what he meant by brighter and putting it in those terms is an easy way to get the beginner to wrap his head around it.

Why is it necessary to be so detailed at this stage of the learning process? If the op learns how to adjust for a correct exposure that will get them out shooting and they will end up right back here asking a more educated question about exposure and everything else. Isn't getting them out to enjoy their new hobby more important then splitting hairs over the details of the exposure triangle?
 
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shaylou said:
This is exactly what confuses beginners! We all know what he meant by brighter and putting it in those terms is an easy way to get the beginner to wrap his head around it.

Why is it necessary to be so detailed at this stage of the learning process? If the op learns how to adjust for a correct exposure that will get them out shooting and they will end up right back here asking a more educated question about exposure and everything else. Isn't getting them out to enjoy their new hobby more important then splitting hairs over the details of the exposure triangle?
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oh stop crying you old woman.. i was trying to point out what i saw as missinformation... i wasnt trying to confuse or get techinical.. quite the oposite.. just wanted to be clear the bigger or small apertute does not alter the brightness of the picture. thats a fact.... his example gave no fixed variables so was wrong..
 
shaylou said:
This is exactly what confuses beginners! We all know what he meant by brighter and putting it in those terms is an easy way to get the beginner to wrap his head around it.

Why is it necessary to be so detailed at this stage of the learning process? If the op learns how to adjust for a correct exposure that will get them out shooting and they will end up right back here asking a more educated question about exposure and everything else. Isn't getting them out to enjoy their new hobby more important then splitting hairs over the details of the exposure triangle?
Click to expand...

Well, I agree that things should be kept simple, but the advice also needs to be relevant.

It's important to acknowledge that this brighter/darker advice does not apply to all shooting modes. Is the OP shooting in manual or another mode (e.g., aperture priority, shutter priority)?

If shooting in manual, then brighter or darker works for describing these effects and it works perfectly fine.

If shooting in aperture priority, however, then this advice doesn't really work, as opening the aperture one stop from f/4 to f/2.8 does not result in a brighter picture; it should result in the same exposure, assuming the scene hasn't changed.
 
KIPAX said:
oh stop crying you old woman.. i was trying to point out what i saw as missinformation... i wasnt trying to confuse or get techinical.. quite the oposite.. just wanted to be clear the bigger or small apertute does not alter the brightness of the picture. thats a fact.... his example gave no fixed variables so was wrong..
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Name calling that's brillaint! Did you ever consider that he is a BEGINNER and you might have to read between the lines. Of course not you were to busy confusing things for him. lol:mooning:
 
skysh4rk said:
Well, I agree that things should be kept simple, but the advice also needs to be relevant.

It's important to acknowledge that this brighter/darker advice does not apply to all shooting modes. Is the OP shooting in manual or another mode (e.g., aperture priority, shutter priority)?

If shooting in manual, then brighter or darker works for describing these effects and it works perfectly fine.

If shooting in aperture priority, however, then this advice doesn't really work, as opening the aperture one stop from f/4 to f/2.8 does not result in a brighter picture; it should result in the same exposure, assuming the scene hasn't changed.
Click to expand...


Sure that is relevant but the fact is he is a beginner and is happy that he has an understanding about exposure. I think it safe to say that he might have not used the correct wording to explain it but it is obvious that he got it for the most part. IMO throwing in all the technical aspects serves the op no benefit at this stage of the game. Actually it could have a damaging effect if it confuses him and makes him rethink what he thought he knew. I do appreciate the great deal of knowledge that is here and offered so selflessly. I just think it's important when a beginner ask a question we stay on topic and include them without confusing them with to much information at once. It's just my opinion, heck there is 100 ways to skin a cat...

:canon:
 
shaylou said:
Sure that is relevant but the fact is he is a beginner and is happy that he has an understanding about exposure. I think it safe to say that he might have not used the correct wording to explain it but it is obvious that he got it for the most part. IMO throwing in all the technical aspects serves the op no benefit at this stage of the game. Actually it could have a damaging effect if it confuses him and makes him rethink what he thought he knew. I do appreciate the great deal of knowledge that is here and offered so selflessly. I just think it's important when a beginner ask a question we stay on topic and include them without confusing them with to much information at once. It's just my opinion, heck there is 100 ways to skin a cat...

:canon:
Click to expand...

I think you're generally right that we should stay on topic for beginners.

Most beginners don't shoot in manual though, so it is important to highlight that brighter/darker doesn't work in the other shooting modes.
 
skysh4rk said:
What happens when you change the aperture from f/5.6 to f/8 in aperture priority?
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What has that to do with the original posters question?
He asked if he had it about right, yes he had, the rest of the 'noise' is probably unhelpful to a begginer that wanted a simple question answered.
He doesnt mention bright or dark he talks of correct light, so in answer to your question the other values will compensate for correct light rather than his example of iso change in particular, to be so specifically pedantic on a begginners wording is unhelpful imho.
 
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B1ts said:
What has that to do with the original posters question?
He asked if he had it about right, yes he had, the rest of the 'noise' is probably unhelpful to a begginer that wanted a simple question answered.
He doesnt mention bright or dark he talks of correct light, so in answer to your question the other values will compensate for correct light rather than his example of iso change in particular, to be so specifically pedantic on a begginners wording is unhelpful imho.
Click to expand...

I myself never nitpicked the OP and I agree that it's good not to confuse beginners by keeping it simple.

I'm just saying that for us to say 'yes, he's right' without explaining that it only applies to fully manual shooting could result in more confusion, especially since few beginners shoot in manual nowadays.
 
The "table" he talks of printing for himself, and I took to be the thrust of his post, is broadly right though, not just in manual, his last statement true in manual but onoy if he is only intending that to be the onky way he utilises his understanding of his table, could just be one of his intended ways for all we know and all this divertion, mine included now unfortunately, may well put begginers off posting so I am leaving at this. Ymmv hand etc ;)
 
B1ts said:
The "table" he talks of printing for himself, and I took to be the thrust of his post, is broadly right though, not just in manual, his last statement true in manual but onoy if he is only intending that to be the onky way he utilises his understanding of his table, could just be one of his intended ways for all we know and all this divertion, mine included now unfortunately, may well put begginers off posting so I am leaving at this. Ymmv hand etc ;)
Click to expand...

I'm looking at his original table:

hyperseven said:
Aperture (how much light gets in)
F value low->more light->low DOF
high->less light->high DOF
Click to expand...

And I agree that what he says is broadly correct, but it's important to note that you will only see more light or less light if you are in manual, as the camera will compensate in aperture priority.

Anyway, we've both devoted too much time on something that I think we mostly agree on, so I'm off to go shoot some photos myself.
 
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While not a perfect simulation, there's a site here that might help to reinforce what you have already learned.
 
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