HELP!!!!! Wet 35mm colour film, can it be saved

sirch

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The other Chris
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I've had a bit of disaster of a day. Somewhat unusually for a Sunday my lad wasn't playing rugby and the weather looked reasonable so I persuaded him to come caving to get a shot for the FPOTY "Wet" theme. Things went wrong from the outset when in the cave when I got the Pentax ME out of the Peli case an found that the battery was dead which of course meant that I couldn't set the shutter speed. However it's a cave, its dark and while I was using flashes we were at the bottom of the entrance shaft and I was hoping for a bit of ambient so I put it on "B" and fired a load of shots as guesses. I packed up the kit and we exited the cave, went for bite to eat and then came home. On unpacking the gear I found that the Peli case had leaked! I can only suppose that I got something trapped under the seal but there was a fair amount of water in the bottom of the case.

:runaway::runaway::runaway:

The main priority was to save the camera so I rewound the film (which was stiff and making a squeaking noise) and set about mopping out the camera, only time will tell if that's OK. However I had also taken some shots on that film in a different cave taken on Wednesday evening and all in all I would like to know if there is anything I can do to save the film. It's colour so I can't process it myself but I could get it out of the can, on to a spiral and into a dev tank but then I'm not sure it would dry. It probably needs a least a good wash (the water on it will not be clean plus dust etc.). It's a fair amount of effort to go and reshoot (plus finding the time) and I guess if I leave it to dry in the can it will just stick together...

Any thoughts? Is it beyond recovery?
 
In theory the colour film should be Ok as some guys pre rinse with water before adding the chemicals...but most important is to get the film out and some how load it on the dev spiral as if left to dry in the cassette will stick together.
 
It depends on how long it was wet. Some emulshions can start to seperate if soaked for too long, a few hours will probably be ok though. Give it a wash first, you may get some scratches for dirt in the water rubbing when wound back in but theres not much you can do about that..
I'd be more worried about the camera, drowning is usually terminal for them, especially with the electronics in the me super.
 
Good luck. It'll be a bear to get on the reel

Agreed..

If it sticks then it could be worthwhile cutting the film when it begins to jam on the spiral ( at the risk of losing two frames) and restarting again with the remaining film on a second spiral or even a third if needs be.

Better to lose a handful of frames than to screw the whole film by trying to force it onto a spiral.

Obviously the film may already be stuffed but if one doesn't try…..
 
I'd be more worried about the camera, drowning is usually terminal for them, especially with the electronics in the me super.
Yes, I've got the bottom off the camera and loosened the top, given it a going over with the hair drier and now it's in the oven on fan-only (no heat) so it's a wait and see game for that I think.

The film is out of the can and was damp but not sopping but clearly the emulsion has absorbed some water. I might go for @Peter B 's suggestion of developing it in B&W chemistry.
 
Actually wasn't too bad to get on the reel, I was expecting it to be a lot worse though.
 
Yes, I've got the bottom off the camera and loosened the top, given it a going over with the hair drier and now it's in the oven on fan-only (no heat) so it's a wait and see game for that I think.

The film is out of the can and was damp but not sopping but clearly the emulsion has absorbed some water. I might go for @Peter B 's suggestion of developing it in B&W chemistry.

The airing cupboard is a good place to dry such items, having it in an airtight box with some raw rice should help absorb any moisture & prevent the family getting upset about muck on the washing :)
 
Is it not possible to rinse the film, let it dry on the spiral (in another, dry tank if available) and then reload a cassette and send it off for processing? I'll stick my hand up and say that I haven't used much 35mm film since the days when all you needed to do to get the end of the cassette was to run a fingernail round the paper label and pull off the end, so it might be more difficult to manage to modern post-motor drive films.
 
Thanks again all. I've got plenty of things wet in the past while caving and the hair drier / oven trick seems to work. The rice or even silica gel idea is one that I have heard recommended a lot but personally I think speed is the thing, IME the longer it says wet the more time there is for things to corrode.

Is it not possible to rinse the film, let it dry on the spiral (in another, dry tank if available) and then reload a cassette and send it off for processing
I had thought the same thing, my concern is getting it dry quickly enough. I only have one tank and it being a plastic tank with only limited air circulation I can see it taking a long time to dry which I guess may affect the emulsion. Then again may be some sort of fan-forced air flow (cold hair drier?) might work
 
The quick way of drying film is/was Agfa Drysonal, which is basically a volatile alcohol that displaces the water and evaporates more quickly. I don't know if you have anything that might work in this way? I'd offer you some Drysonal (it's reusable - the part that doesn't evaporate) but time constraints rule this out.
 
PS Some alcohols/ethers dissolve plastic, as I found to my cost as a student when the fountain pen that I used acquired a fixed fingerprint as a result of the chemicals I was handling. So beware.
 
Thanks @StephenM, given that I'm not expecting great results whatever I do I am going to give it a go in HC-110, it's at least an interesting experiment, anything else is starting to feel like chucking good-money-after-bad.
 
So the deed is done. As soon as the fixer left the tank I had a peek at the reel and it looked blank, so I pulled out more of the film and it was still blank. About to write it off I pulled out more and there were some visible frames, quite faint but definitely there. The first 12 or so frames are lost for some reason which could be operator or camera problems, the rest of it seems to have worked to some extent. When it's dry I'll get some scans.
 
And for lovers of grain here's a couple of scans :), straight out of the scanner, the marks on the film are presumably because it was wet when it was rewound

Sophie from last Wednesday
Image 10.jpg


Alec from today
Image 1 12 2.jpg
 
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These are better than anything I've got for Wet in FPOTY!

Well, I was pretty sure you were at Onich with us, Peter! Must have been someone else ;) :D
 
Well, I was pretty sure you were at Onich with us, Peter! Must have been someone else ;) :D
Chris and me went out on the Tuesday to the quarry and the lochan as there was supposed to be a break in the rain according to the weather radar, but I'm afraid it failed to happen. Funnily enough, I changed the film in my camera and it got a few spots of rain on it, so I decided to scrap that film in case the spots of rain would cause a problem when it wound on in the camera. :rolleyes:
 
And for lovers of grain here's a couple of scans :), straight out of the scanner, the marks on the film are presumably because it was wet when it was rewound

Sophie from last Wednesday
View attachment 137568


Alec from today
View attachment 137569

You did well with your flash gun, but my flashguns at that distance would have lit up the area like daylight o_O If you want to take shots in low light without flash and have a tripod a cheap camera is the Praktica BC1 as on auto goes down to 40 secs. (y)
 
The photos always look better with people in them for scale if nothing else but that makes long exposure difficult because it is hard for someone to stand still for 40 seconds while being lashed by a cold stream :)
 
The photos always look better with people in them for scale if nothing else but that makes long exposure difficult because it is hard for someone to stand still for 40 seconds while being lashed by a cold stream :)

Just saying about what cheap gear is around for use for long exposures and would be cheaper than say the OM's. AAMOI before the latest AF film cameras there weren't many cameras that could go past 8 secs on auto.
For caving (with water around) and don't want to spend a lot of money, maybe a more mechanical camera would be more suitable and you could use those old powerful flashguns that you can buy for peanuts.
 
Could it have been the air pressure vent (which allows the case to depressurise for flying) that got the case wet, some of those plastic cases are only waterproof if the valve type knurled nut is tightened up. Some seem to have an automatic type valve, if so, could that have been faulty? Glad you got some results from the film though.(y) I find caves and mines quite interesting places (both in terms of geology and wildlife), I've only done 'walk (or crawl) in' ones though, not into the tight squeeze or abseiling type ones.
 
Just saying about what cheap gear is around for use for long exposures and would be cheaper than say the OM's. AAMOI before the latest AF film cameras there weren't many cameras that could go past 8 secs on auto.
For caving (with water around) and don't want to spend a lot of money, maybe a more mechanical camera would be more suitable and you could use those old powerful flashguns that you can buy for peanuts.
I've got a couple of Zenit EMs which I used to use for cave photography when I was a lad, never got anything worth keeping with them though, more as you say due to flash guns than the cameras. As for flash gun power, more is not always better, too much light can make the photos look flat at best and given the close proximity of the walls and roof, etc. can end up with lots of blown areas. I'd be happy to take you for a trip so you can get some experience :). To get a feel for it though, pack everything you think you need into waterproof containers and then do 30 minutes crawling around under the dining table carrying the gear with you.

<ETA> there is also the question of the look and style of the photo, I have seen some caves lit up like daylight and for me they don't "feel" like caving, in a cave you can only see as far as your cap-lamp and for me that's how I like the photos to look.

Also, obviously the above photos are not exactly high quality, just examples of what can be had from FujiColour in HC110 which results in very low contrast negatives
 
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Could it have been the air pressure vent (which allows the case to depressurise for flying) that got the case wet, some of those plastic cases are only waterproof if the valve type knurled nut is tightened up. Some seem to have an automatic type valve, if so, could that have been faulty? Glad you got some results from the film though.(y) I find caves and mines quite interesting places (both in terms of geology and wildlife), I've only done 'walk (or crawl) in' ones though, not into the tight squeeze or abseiling type ones.


The Pelicase I took has always been fine, the most likely cause is that I got something trapped in the seal when packing the gear away.

I did organise a TP Caving Meet but surprisingly it wasn’t very well attended :), I’m happy to take people down easy caves or mines if you fancy a trip, may be “F&C goes caving” or even a trip as part of a Dales Weekend meet?
 
I've got a couple of Zenit EMs which I used to use for cave photography when I was a lad, never got anything worth keeping with them though, more as you say due to flash guns than the cameras. As for flash gun power, more is not always better, too much light can make the photos look flat at best and given the close proximity of the walls and roof, etc. can end up with lots of blown areas. I'd be happy to take you for a trip so you can get some experience :). To get a feel for it though, pack everything you think you need into waterproof containers and then do 30 minutes crawling around under the dining table carrying the gear with you.

<ETA> there is also the question of the look and style of the photo, I have seen some caves lit up like daylight and for me they don't "feel" like caving, in a cave you can only see as far as your cap-lamp and for me that's how I like the photos to look.

Also, obviously the above photos are not exactly high quality, just examples of what can be had from FujiColour in HC110 which results in very low contrast negatives

The only cave I went in (well a walk in cave) with a group of people and the guide switched the light off and you felt helpless\useless in not seeing anyone near you.
 
I did organise a TP Caving Meet but surprisingly it wasn’t very well attended :), I’m happy to take people down easy caves or mines if you fancy a trip, may be “F&C goes caving” or even a trip as part of a Dales Weekend meet?
Sounds interesting. Alternatively, perhaps we could arrange something with Derbyshire Caving Club when they do the Alderley Edge Mines open day? https://derbyscc.org.uk/alderley/current_visiting_open_days.php.

If it's similar to how it was last time I went in the 1990s, the public tour route is a nice and easy walk-in (with a bit of ducking and crouching) and sections of the mines are floodlit (which would help with film photography). According to the link, these days they apparently put on displays of rope-work, copper casting, etc. If we spoke to them nicely and booked a 'bespoke' group tour as the last trip at the end of the Saturday event (when they're not wanting to pack all their kit away at the end of the weekend) they might give us some time to set tripods up, etc. Especially if we shared some of our photos with them? Probably not very exciting a trip for a seasoned speleologist, but maybe a good photo opportunity, particularly with the above ground displays, etc.?
 
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Sounds interesting. Alternatively, perhaps we could arrange something with Derbyshire Caving Club when they do the Alderley Edge Mines open day? https://derbyscc.org.uk/alderley/current_visiting_open_days.php.

If it's similar to how it was last time I went in the 1990s, the public tour route is a nice and easy walk-in (with a bit of ducking and crouching) and sections of the mines are floodlit (which would help with film photography). According to the link, these days they apparently put on displays of rope-work, copper casting, etc. If we spoke to them nicely and booked a 'bespoke' group tour as the last trip at the end of the Saturday event (when they're not wanting to pack all their kit away at the end of the weekend) they might give us some time to set tripods up, etc. Especially if we shared some of our photos with them? Probably not very exciting a trip for a seasoned speleologist, but maybe a good photo opportunity, particularly with the above ground displays, etc.?
You really need to venture outside of Cheshire :D

The thing with organised trips is that they tend to want to move you on resoably quickly and setting up flash guns, etc can involve a lot of faff.
 
The quick way of drying film is/was Agfa Drysonal, which is basically a volatile alcohol that displaces the water and evaporates more quickly. I don't know if you have anything that might work in this way? I'd offer you some Drysonal (it's reusable - the part that doesn't evaporate) but time constraints rule this out.

An old press trick I was shown was to dip the wet (then B+W after deving) film in meths, and light the meths, the guy who showed me explained the meths displaces the water and you burn off the meths. Hey presto dry film ready for printing.
Now the day he showed me it resulted in a burning film and a visit from a not too impressed fire brigade after he set the office partially on fire, although he apparently used to dry his films like thar a lot (not setting the place on fire).
Now I'm told it can and did work and was used a lot back in the day.
I personally suspect meths isn't great for long term film qualities, and lighting it seems a REALLY bad idea IMHO. If you do go down this route I'd suggest some sort of fireproof outfit.... ;)
 
You really need to venture outside of Cheshire :D

The thing with organised trips is that they tend to want to move you on resoably quickly and setting up flash guns, etc can involve a lot of faff.

Why? Cheshire has everything if you know where to look... plus it's not in Yorkshire, which has got to be a bonus! :D ;)

Banter aside, that's why I was suggesting a bespoke 'end of day' tour of the mine; DCC might be able to give us a bit more time there then, plus floodlighting would already be in place, which would make for easier film photos. The issue with using on-camera flash in mines and caves as the primary source of illumination can be the amount of dust particles in the air, which can appear in the photo as what amateur ghost hunters think are orbs. Using already installed floodlighting, etc. might avoid the need for flash. If the cave/mine is wet enough to avoid the dust problem it may not be too kind on photographic kit, not just water and damp, but fine grit and sand in mud getting into tripod leg seals, mechanisms, etc. You've probably got an ideal venue in mind though, so hopefully not going to be an issue. (y)
 
I've never been to Alderley Edge mines so depedning on when the DCC open days are I'd be up for it.
 
h'mm they say at Alderley edge:-

The DCC will lend a helmet and miner's cap lamp to each visitor. No other special equipment is required and visitors are discouraged from bringing extra items such as torches and cameras which may hinder their tour around the mines.
 
h'mm they say at Alderley edge:-

The DCC will lend a helmet and miner's cap lamp to each visitor. No other special equipment is required and visitors are discouraged from bringing extra items such as torches and cameras which may hinder their tour around the mines.
Yes, but the plan (before booking or committing ourselves) would be to contact DCC and ask if they'd be interested in putting on a special group tour for F&C members at the end of the Saturday trips so we could take some photos. This would be a pre-booked and 'semi-private' event so we'd be able to take cameras, tripods, flash guns, etc. as they'd hopefully be able to take us directly to some suitable places for taking photos, rather than having a 'standard' mine tour.

Anyone who wanted the standard tour could always book separately and go earlier in the day as a visitor with the rest of the public. As they'll apparently have a few above ground displays we could get there an hour or three earlier and take some photos of these, as well as exploring Alderley Edge itself, if the weather is nice... there's a nice view of the north Cheshire Plain from up there. If the weather is grotty then we could just turn up for the underground photo event (if indeed they'll run with this idea).

Anyway, it was only a suggestion, let's see if anyone is interested in the idea? :) After all, there's no guarantee DCC would be willing/able to accommodate this idea, but I don't see any harm in asking them if enough people are interested.
 
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