Help with Booking a model - TF or Paid - which is best?

DG Phototraining

DG Phototraining

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Hi all

Finding the 'right' model can be tricky and if you're new to shooting people then it can be confusing, even embarrassing, too. So here's a fun guide to Booking a model

Firstly - TF or Paid

TF (Time For) is where neither you or your model are paid in money. They give their time to you, you give them images in return. Simples

TF models tend to be less experienced, and so you'll need to give them a clear idea of what styling you're after and even how to pose

Paid is simply that the model expects to be paid for their work. They tend to be more experienced and will usually need less direction from you, which is useful too if you're new to shooting models

Paid models don't expect to get the images, their payment is money, but if you have some great ones its nice to hand a few over I feel, and especially if you'd like to shoot them again

Collaboration - is where a model, Paid or TF, are working together on a TF basis. Many who are usually paid models do this where they want a specific look photographing, to update their portfolio with better images, or ones showing a new hairstyle, tattoos, etc.

---::---

Here's my recent experience of both TF & Paid

3 Paid models to date...

Communication good re shoot. Turn up as agreed. Shoot goes well. Alls well in the World :)​

7 TF models to date

With 2 Communication good re shoot. Turn up as agreed. Shoot goes well. Alls well in the World :)​

BUT...

5 of them... Communication good initially but then stops replying to messages. Shoot doesn't go ahead. No idea why they changed their mind and are ignoring me :(​

---::---

Here's how my last Casting Call went on a TF basis, a Casting is where you state you need a model, to do what & where on such as PurplePort (the best model site IMHO, and you can be a free member and still book models)

Casting for an out & about, fully clothed, TF shoot in Leeds' city centre Tuesday 5th April, Casting put out 4 days earlier


The first girl who contacted me seemed great, agreed to everything, was looking forward to it, then ever since I suggested a time to meet and asked for her mobile number - NOTHING

A second girl contacts me, she's not as good looking but ok, so I tell her I've agreed to the first, but am awaiting confirmation - I tell this one that if it falls through then she's next and I'll let her know Sunday. She's happy with this

A third girl contacts me, good looking again and more experienced than No2, so I tell her the same as girl 2. She's happy with this

By Sunday morning as girl 1 is still ignoring me (I can see she's logged on so is obviously just not replying), I contact girl 3 and say - yep you're in

Girl 3 replies - good - then 5 hours later she 'remembers' a Dr's appt and calls it off

Girl 4 contacts me - she's not suitable for the look I'm after - I tell her the casting is closed

I message girl 2 again and say - you're on

I later see girl 2 has logged on but doesn't reply

I check again, she's logged on again but still no reply

This morning she replies and says she's good to go !!!

I've replied to that outlining the idea and a where & when to meet, as yet she's not replied so I really don't know as yet if I have a model or not. I'm currently thinking I'll be shooting architecture in Leeds tomorrow :D

---::---

So, if you REALLY want someone to shoot, PAY them is the moral here :D

BTW, PurplePort has a LOT of helpful info you should read before approaching anyone for your first time

Oh and shooting people - is FAB :)

Dave
 
For what its worth, I'm not sure that sounds like the best advert for PP. But anyway I shoot for fun, and in my mind TF has a client expecting payment from you (quality pictures). This adds to the pressure a little, and sometimes detracts from a shoot. I would recommend paying for experiences models and advising them of your levels of experience if you don't have a lot of experience yourself. Also, I would guess like a lot of internet, there are plenty of dreamers, who may or may not be worth the time, effort and payment.
 
you could just go to Leeds and approach pretty girls in the street and ask them to sit for you ... assuming you don't get arrested or get your head kicked in it could work out :LOL:
 
So what are typical rates for a half decent model? Just been having a look at PP and it's something I fancy exploring, its been on the list for a while.
 
Livin The Dream said:
So what are typical rates for a half decent model? Just been having a look at PP and it's something I fancy exploring, its been on the list for a while.
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It depends what you mean by 'half decent'.

£20 ph is common. £45 ph will get you someone very good. But then there's TF, part TF, studio days and all shades in between.

Some models can do hair, makeup and styling. Some can provide some kind of studio facilities. Though you may need to pay for all of those.

You're more likely to attract quality models to do TF if your work is good and can provide hair & makeup folk too.

In summary, then, working with pro models costs anything from nothing to £100+/ hour by the time you've factored all the non-equipment costs in.

Sorry, not much help!
 
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Livin The Dream said:
So what are typical rates for a half decent model? Just been having a look at PP and it's something I fancy exploring, its been on the list for a while.
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This is a little bit led by where you live, but mostly by the experience of your model (and even how well known/published they are), and of course what you're asking them to do - so

Portrait / Fashion - which means clothed - £20-£30-phr

Some nudity, implied and topless and you can add £10-£15 phr to that

Full nude such as Art Nude could be up to £40 phr, and glamour maybe more

If you book for 3-4 hours then there's usually a bit of a discount, but for my work (all clothed but outdoors) I usually pay £100 for 4 hours

If you are new to shooting people then obviously you won't have a portfolio to show, so being straight with models about that helps and definitely hiring someone who has a clue what they (and even you!) should be doing will help too; but do read PP's advice pages on dealing with models before posting to hire one :)

Feel free to ask anything else too

Dave
 
Livin The Dream said:
Thanks Si. Sounds a bit of a faff all round [emoji3]
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Not at all - you just need to decide what you want first, have a clue what you're trying to achieve and it all makes sense then :)

If you're wanting to go down the studio shoot route and you haven't much experience, then get yourself on a course or three first so you're more efficient when booking your own, which saves you money & time, but also stops you looking like a pillock to your model :D

Dave
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Serious question, Dave. What's the difference nowadays between yer "art nude" and yer "glammer"?
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Or my version compared to Simon's...

Art Nude is tasteful and while clearly boobs & bush may be on display the intent is not to create lust, its about form, shape, tones etc.

Glamour is meant to arouse

Its the difference between the work of such greats as the Yerburys (Fine Art Nude) or Playboy (Glamour)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Or my version compared to Simon's...

Art Nude is tasteful and while clearly boobs & bush may be on display the intent is not to create lust, its about form, shape, tones etc.

Glamour is meant to arouse

Its the difference between the work of such greats as the Yerburys (Fine Art Nude) or Playboy (Glamour)

Dave
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It's at this point that the discussion on PP tends to degenerate into mudslinging ;)
 
juggler said:
It took me a disappointingly long time to work out that modelling is a real skill.
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PMSL :D

It took me no time at all, as my first 'proper' model decided to explain it all to me - bolshy cow lol

But yes, modeling is no more 'Standing there looking lovely' than photography is 'Buy great camera, take great photos' :D

---

On a serious point though - for a change - a pal of mine is a great portrait/fashiony photographer and one of the few to have an 'A' rate distinction in that field. He was working on his F panel when he asked of his mentor, what to do 'better' to stand more chance of achieving the F as he couldn't see what more to do re his lighting/photography/PP work, and the reply was - Shoot better models !!!

I actually like shooting 'normal' folk and making them look as good as I can rather than the easier (arguably) route of shooting someone beautiful

Dave
 
juggler said:
Ditto. Though I've learned a lot from models about how to shoot normal folk.
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Generally normal folk are more likely to scream and run when they see the gun , models will be more easily convinced that its a prop until its too late - also disposing of the body is easier in a studio environment


ahh wait, you meant taking pictures... my bad ;) :LOL:
 
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DG Phototraining said:
... such greats as the Yerburys (Fine Art Nude) or Playboy (Glamour)
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I'm surprised to see the Yerburys included in "the greats" of anything, but am obliged to you for the explanation.

Seems like nothing's really changed, then - including the ongoing debate about where one stops and t'other starts!

PS I always stood by the old distinction - if the girl's got her kit off, her bra size is no more than 34B and the picture's in b/w it's Fine Art Nude . Otherwise it's glammer :cool:
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
I'm surprised to see the Yerburys included in "the greats" of anything,
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They've been considered by many to be at the top of the game for decades, some of my highly expert portrait togs think that of them too, Trevor is a Fellow of the SWPP at least and a regular conference speaker, just as he was at the Photography Show this year too

You may not like them but I think they're worthy of being considered amongst the 'Greats', and certainly more than such as David Bailey is

Dave
 
juggler said:
Horses for courses, I s'pose. I like their portraiture but it's not a patch on Bailey's. I find the Yerbury's nudes technically excellent but often very dull.
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That's a fairer opinion :)

I don't like most of Bailey's work but find most of Trevor's nude serene lol

Defo those horses

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
PMSL :D

I actually like shooting 'normal' folk and making them look as good as I can rather than the easier (arguably) route of shooting someone beautiful

Dave
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Couldn't agree more Dave.

DG Phototraining said:
If you're wanting to go down the studio shoot route and you haven't much experience, then get yourself on a course or three first so you're more efficient when booking your own, which saves you money & time, but also stops you looking like a pillock to your model :D

Dave
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Great advice, but I'll be ok on the technical front ;) Haven't used any local studio's yet though so I could do with sussing those out too and a decent MUA if I want to scratch the glamour itch. I have done the odd organised group shoot but everyday people seem to float my boat more.
 
DG Phototraining said:
They've been considered by many to be at the top of the game for decades, some of my highly expert portrait togs think that of them too, Trevor is a Fellow of the SWPP at least and a regular conference speaker, just as he was at the Photography Show this year too

You may not like them but I think they're worthy of being considered amongst the 'Greats', and certainly more than such as David Bailey is
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Sorry Dave, I wasn't having a go at you considering the Yerburys to be among "the greats", that being an opinion to which you're obviously perfectly entitled. I was just surprised, given that I've never actually known anybody who rated them - his SWPP/conference "status" notwithstanding.

Totally agree about Bailey though ...
 
Nice one Dave. There's a couple on your blog post that I'd ditch on the basis that they're weak compared to the rest, but some of those are absolute crackers :)
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Nice one Dave. There's a couple on your blog post that I'd ditch on the basis that they're weak compared to the rest, but some of those are absolute crackers :)
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No-ones perfect, and I don't mind showing I'm defo not :D

I always show a selection of the sessions I shoot, in my mind its telling people you don't just get brilliant shots every time, but these blog posts are also telling the story of the shoot so they are staying in lol


Dave
 
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Fine by me Dave. After all, we were the ones who deliberately put relatively ordinary complete weddings on our site for all to see rather than the more awesome gigs on the basis that they were representative of what most punters got.

Anyhow, getting back on track ref amateur models, the ones I did always fell into one of three categories. Referrals from agencies, relatively "established" models wanting free prints/files of my particular style of shot, and girls I'd stopped on the street. I never had any trouble with the first two on account of they wanted the pictures as much or more than I did (and in any case the agency ones were paying for them!), and nor did I ever have any problems carding girls in the street.

Where I did meet the odd problem though was with girls I'd carded going flakey after the first shoot. In one of two instances it was obviously "thanks for the free pictures mister, bye bye", but I recall three girls showing a lot of promise after two or three shoots then flaking bigtime. One girl was so promising that a friend of mine who used to be a booker for Models One got them seriously interested in her, and another was actually offered the job of receptionist/house model for Karen Millen. Both of them blew it and I just couldn't work out WTF was going on with them.

Then it dawned on me. Cold feet. Simple as that. They were OK having fun playing at being a model, but as soon as it started getting serious, they bottled out. Just too insecure.

In due course I found out just how common that seemed to be, and I wouldn't mind betting nothing's changed ...
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Then it dawned on me. Cold feet. Simple as that. They were OK having fun playing at being a model, but as soon as it started getting serious, they bottled out. Just too insecure.
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Makes perfect sense, so quite likely I guess - bloody annoying though

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
PP works well with paid models, its just that TF ones seem less motivated and hence less reliable sometimes
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What makes me laugh are those so called model who only have a few selfies and no references on their profile yet they are asking for £40-50 pound an hour
 
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