Beginner How do you Value "Mirrorless Cameras"

Coho-Blue

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With all the Mirrorless around nowadays how are they Valued in terms of "Selling/Buying" in the used market ?

Given that a D850 with lets say 90,000 actuations is worth maybe around £1,200 . how then does one Value a Nikon Z7ii Mirrorless ? as there is No mechanical shutter

I always assumed that buying a DSLR and using the Shutter count as a means to its Value was fairly common practise .. What means would you now use to Value a mirrorless ?

Would it be fair to say that a Mirrorless will/should hold its price "Better"


Coho-Blue
 
Nikon says

Z 7II, Z 7, Z 6II, Z 6, Z 5 - Tested to 200,000 cycles
 
Mirrorless cameras do have mechanical shutter but also have electronic shutters. Some electronic shutters work better than others and allow the camera to be used in electronic shutter the majority of the time. Many mirrorless cameras still have a ‘shutter count’. Shutter count has always been one of the many ways to calculate the value of a camera. Condition of the camera is another.
 
Coho-Blue said:
With all the Mirrorless around nowadays how are they Valued in terms of "Selling/Buying" in the used market ?

Given that a D850 with lets say 90,000 actuations is worth maybe around £1,200 . how then does one Value a Nikon Z7ii Mirrorless ? as there is No mechanical shutter

I always assumed that buying a DSLR and using the Shutter count as a means to its Value was fairly common practise .. What means would you now use to Value a mirrorless ?

Would it be fair to say that a Mirrorless will/should hold its price "Better"


Coho-Blue
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Other than general condition and of course how much the market is willing to pay, maybe the camera's placement within the timeline of generations and also other models both same manufacturer and competition may have a bearing? I suppose lens support could also end up having an impact and make a camera either less or more desirable.

Mirrorless do seem to hold their value well in my opinion.
 
My Sony A9 that was released in 2017 the same as the D850 is still selling used for over £2k. I'd say that's pretty good residual value.

It does have a mechanical shutter too, just not a mirror.

For me, condition of the body has always been above shutter count anyway. You could have a camera with 500 shots that's been treated like crap or one with 200,000 that's been lovingly cared for. I'd probably the the 200k one.
 
Thank you for the replies ..

I may be stating the obvious here SO , is it fair to say that when it comes to DSLR v Mirrorless it’s more important to take shutter count into the equation when buying a DSLR ? and it’s not important with a Mirrorless ?

For example a DSLR with 200,000 shutter count V,s a Mirrorless with 200,000 shutter count simply because a one has a mechanical shutter and the other does not …

Coho- Blue
 
Coho-Blue said:
Thank you for the replies ..

I may be stating the obvious here SO , is it fair to say that when it comes to DSLR v Mirrorless it’s more important to take shutter count into the equation when buying a DSLR ? and it’s not important with a Mirrorless ?

For example a DSLR with 200,000 shutter count V,s a Mirrorless with 200,000 shutter count simply because a one has a mechanical shutter and the other does not …

Coho- Blue
Click to expand...
Someone’s already pointed out that mirrorless cameras also have a mechanical shutter. Your premise is flawed.
There’s also a point about how the shutter ‘performs’.

A mirrorless camera when ‘on’ has an open shutter (as does a dslr in live view) so when you take a picture, the shutter closes, opens for the exposure, closes for the exposure then opens again to allow live view to continue.
So for each picture taken, there’s 2 shutter actuations.
Of course in electronic shutter mode that’s not the case, but there’s many reasons photographers choose not to use those modes.
 
Coho-Blue said:
Thank you for the replies ..

I may be stating the obvious here SO , is it fair to say that when it comes to DSLR v Mirrorless it’s more important to take shutter count into the equation when buying a DSLR ? and it’s not important with a Mirrorless ?

For example a DSLR with 200,000 shutter count V,s a Mirrorless with 200,000 shutter count simply because a one has a mechanical shutter and the other does not …

Coho- Blue
Click to expand...
The shutter count is just one of the factors to consider, and needs to be done in relation to the rated shutter lifetime for that camera (in general, newer cameras, and higher end cameras, have higher rated shutters than older, or entry level cameras) - So a camera rated to 100k actuations which has done 70k is less attractive than one which has done 150k, but is rated for 500k, for example.
With mirrorless, the situation is more complex, as (for Sony at least, I don't know i this is the same for Canon and Nikon) the shutter count is only the count of shots taken where the mechanical shutter was used - which needs to be weighed against the DSLR where each activation also uses the complex mirror assembly (which can also fail).
And as Phil has mentioned, you also have the additional complications of shutter activation for live view on DSLR and normal mode on mirrorless but then there's Electronic Front Curtain on mirrorless - where the shutter doesn't close before the shot, only to end the exposure. So knowing the 'true' shutter useage is rather tricky!
 
Phil V said:
Someone’s already pointed out that mirrorless cameras also have a mechanical shutter. Your premise is flawed.
There’s also a point about how the shutter ‘performs’.

A mirrorless camera when ‘on’ has an open shutter (as does a dslr in live view) so when you take a picture, the shutter closes, opens for the exposure, closes for the exposure then opens again to allow live view to continue.
So for each picture taken, there’s 2 shutter actuations.
Of course in electronic shutter mode that’s not the case, but there’s many reasons photographers choose not to use those modes.
Click to expand...


Going on this principle, every time the camera's switched on and off, regardless of whether a shot is taken, is effectively a shutter activation.
 
Nod said:
Going on this principle, every time the camera's switched on and off, regardless of whether a shot is taken, is effectively a shutter activation.
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That will depend on the camera - some leave the shutter open when powered down, some close it, and some allow you to chose if you want it open or closed!
Which all goes to make an effective comparison purely on the reported number even less reliable.
 
I would personally ignore any mention of low shutter count on a mirrorless as if there used with electronic shutter , it could have a count of a few hundred but be worn out in other parts .i.e shutter button , or EVF ..instead look at general condition for knocks scratches ,dints etc .. but I would also only buy used from a reputable dealer that offers a minimum 12 months no quibble warranty which is far better than vague promises of reliability
 
the black fox said:
I would personally ignore any mention of low shutter count on a mirrorless as if there used with electronic shutter , it could have a count of a few hundred but be worn out in other parts .i.e shutter button , or EVF ..instead look at general condition for knocks scratches ,dints etc .. but I would also only buy used from a reputable dealer that offers a minimum 12 months no quibble warranty which is far better than vague promises of reliability
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:plus1: There are many things to wear out. As TBF says, almost every picture you take has used the shutter button (interval timing apart I suppose), the on/off switch, connectors for lenses, even the base of the camera and the tripod screw. I would say shutter count still has a bearing on camera use. Might I presume even an electronic shutter actuation is counted as part of a shutter count in mirrorless cameras?
 
Coho-Blue said:
With all the Mirrorless around nowadays how are they Valued in terms of "Selling/Buying" in the used market ?

Given that a D850 with lets say 90,000 actuations is worth maybe around £1,200 . how then does one Value a Nikon Z7ii Mirrorless ? as there is No mechanical shutter

I always assumed that buying a DSLR and using the Shutter count as a means to its Value was fairly common practise .. What means would you now use to Value a mirrorless ?

Would it be fair to say that a Mirrorless will/should hold its price "Better"


Coho-Blue
Click to expand...

I would say all dslrs and mirrorless cameras depreciate. They are tools to use, not investments.

How fast do they hold their value? It’s many factors, shutter count / proxy for wear and tear is one. Technical innovation coming in newer models is maybe more important.

May I ask the reason for the question? Someone might be able the help more if that was clear.
 
TimHughes said:
I would say all dslrs and mirrorless cameras depreciate. They are tools to use, not investments.

How fast do they hold their value? It’s many factors, shutter count / proxy for wear and tear is one. Technical innovation coming in newer models is maybe more important.

May I ask the reason for the question? Someone might be able the help more if that was clear.
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Yes exactly they are tools to do a job they and we are lucky at the moment to have such a choice of great cameras from all of the main manufacturers
 
Coho-Blue said:
Thank you for the replies ..

I may be stating the obvious here SO , is it fair to say that when it comes to DSLR v Mirrorless it’s more important to take shutter count into the equation when buying a DSLR ? and it’s not important with a Mirrorless ?

For example a DSLR with 200,000 shutter count V,s a Mirrorless with 200,000 shutter count simply because a one has a mechanical shutter and the other does not …

Coho- Blue
Click to expand...
No. If they have a mechanical shutter as most mirrorless cameras do then the shutter count is pretty much equivalent.
I've hardly ever used the electronic shutter on any of my Mirrorless cameras (it introduces issues with flash etc), quite a few of mine don't even have a electronic shutter!
 
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With the Sony a9 (and many other cameras now) I could probably sit here, put something on the shutter release and fire off 50,000 frames in a day with it cosily wrapped up indoors.

An extreme example, but it goes to show that shutter count could well be largely irrelevant. Funnily enough, DSLR shutters aren't particularly expensive to replace anyway, I know a few motorsport photographers who will keep the same body but get the shutter mechanism replaced every off-season.

It's a bit like buying a car, a 5 year old car on 40,000 miles may be a better buy than one on 1000 miles. If those 40k miles were easy-going motorway miles and the car was maintained correctly, it may well be in better condition mechanically than one that does a 1 mile pootle to the shop from cold ocassionally.
 
I'm not convinced that shutter-count is a helpful way to value a used camera.

From what I understand, the manufacturers don't give a figure for life expectancy of a shutter but there are databases which collate information and produce "average life expectancy" and that actual life (measured in actuations) of an individual shutter can vary massively from the average.

As has been discussed upstream in this thread, there's other things that wear out too - and in my reckoning, a heavily used and abused 3 year old camera would be worth less than a lightly used and lovingly cherished 8 year old camera of the same type with an identical shutter count.

I also understand that getting a shutter replaced isn't a difficult or expensive "repair" - so maybe, in the small chance of the shutter giving up the ghost shortly after purchase, the price difference between a high-end body with a high shutter count and one with a lower shutter count could be more than the cost of a new shutter (I'm not saying this is the case, just wondering if it might/could be).
 
weybourne said:
I'm not convinced that shutter-count is a helpful way to value a used camera.

From what I understand, the manufacturers don't give a figure for life expectancy of a shutter but there are databases which collate information and produce "average life expectancy" and that actual life (measured in actuations) of an individual shutter can vary massively from the average.

As has been discussed upstream in this thread, there's other things that wear out too - and in my reckoning, a heavily used and abused 3 year old camera would be worth less than a lightly used and lovingly cherished 8 year old camera of the same type with an identical shutter count.

I also understand that getting a shutter replaced isn't a difficult or expensive "repair" - so maybe, in the small chance of the shutter giving up the ghost shortly after purchase, the price difference between a high-end body with a high shutter count and one with a lower shutter count could be more than the cost of a new shutter (I'm not saying this is the case, just wondering if it might/could be).
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In the case of pro bodies, like the D5's and 1DX's etc. there is enough margin to go for a leggy one, the price difference can be as much as 1500, a shutter replacement on one of those cameras usually runs 4-500
 
fujilover said:
They are tighter than scrooge when buying and overprice when selling.

Best way is to watch forum prices and ebay sold listings and you soon get clued on if you put in some effort.
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Yip they are a business and the easy option.
I think on here most buyers are smart to the price they offer and tend to use that to get a deal.
Ebay fees hit anything higher, not to mention the stress you have to go through with the idiots!
 
Coho-Blue said:
With all the Mirrorless around nowadays how are they Valued in terms of "Selling/Buying" in the used market ?

Given that a D850 with lets say 90,000 actuations is worth maybe around £1,200 . how then does one Value a Nikon Z7ii Mirrorless ? as there is No mechanical shutter

I always assumed that buying a DSLR and using the Shutter count as a means to its Value was fairly common practise .. What means would you now use to Value a mirrorless ?

Would it be fair to say that a Mirrorless will/should hold its price "Better"


Coho-Blue
Click to expand...
The only mirrorless camera without a mechanical shutter is the recent Nikon z9. The rest all have them. Digital rots. Even Leicas are not safe in that regard. I tend to look at eBay for sold prices and then purchase elsewhere. Or a decent dealer and look at their 2nd hand stock. Knock 25% off and you will not be too far away…
 
Shutter count yes - but also condition.

For instance.

A landscapers camera or a wedding photographers one is going to have more dings, drops etc than one used in a studio. In the case of a wedding photographers camera as they are mainly hand held the gribs/rubbers will be more worn than a landscapers one which lives on a tripod - but there is the risk with the latter you are buying something that's had prior water damage. Anyone that shoots coastal will know what I mean.
 
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