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srichards

srichards

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until film runs out? If ever?? Just wondering whether to keep my rolls unused so they appreciate like fine wines :D

With many manufacturers saying they won't be making film any more is it likely that film will actually become impossible to get hold of?
 
Still film won't disappear until motion picture film disappears, the great majority of feature films are still done on film as it offers much better quality than digital and many cinematographers prefer it. Even on digitally shot films its still used for critical special effects etc as it offers much better resolution, especially when shot on 65mm or Vistavision. Plus everyone loves IMAX don't they? What do you think the only way to get that sort of quality is? By shooting on 15 perf 65mm film, the 'digital' IMAX camera has nowhere near the same resolution.

Plus its been calculated by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences that it actually costs about 1100% more to store digital masters securely and safely than it does with a film master because of the limitations of tapes, discs, hard drives etc when films known to last 100 years+ even when not cold stored, hence why most digital films also have a film master made for insurance purposes. Plus what says that in the future computers will be able to play the digital file format?

Unlike in the past, technology from motion picture film now filters its way into still film rather than the other way around. Kodak Ektar and Portra for instance use technology developed for Kodak Vision3 motion picture film and with Kodak releasing the generations of Vision roughly every 5 years we should be expecting them next year.
 
It's the million pound question really, but the mention of Portra is a good one - an entirely new emulsion, a film designed and marketed in the digital age. So it's not all doom and gloom, aside from the occasional news of an emulsion being dropped (the most well known being Kodachrome of course).
 
Drat. I was hoping my out of date film stock was an appreciating asset!

Didn't know film was actually still used in the movie industry. Seems ironic to shoot digitally then save it on film for safe keeping.

I have one roll of kodak slide film but you can't get that developed due to lack of chemicals. That's another issue with some films.
 
Stock up on discontinued Neopan 400 in 120 format and that will almost certainly be an appreciating asset!
 
What sort of slide film? If its Kodachrome then you can't get it done as there are no chemical dyes or the bleach anymore for the K-14M process, but Ektachrome/Elite Chrome E-6 slide films can still be readily processed by most mail order labs.

Kodachrome was a sad casualty, but it had to go one day as its never been exactly profitable for Kodak since the early 80's when the popularity of slide film started dropping and especially the 90's when Velvia took over Kodachrome 25's role in ultra high resolution landscape photography.

Most films you can get developed in some way anyway, even if its not in colour like you can do with Kodachrome. Even films from the 1910's have been successfully developed in recent times.

Like I said though, most big budget films are still shot on film so I think that film has a good few decades left in it. I have also noticed that a lot of people seem to be using film occasionally alongside their digital cameras, perhaps as a bit of nostalgia and most of the time they compliment things like the large, bright viewfinders, so thats encouraging. Probably the lucrative mass consumer point and shoot market has been lost forever, but in the case of SLR's, rangefinders etc there could be a large number of users in the end.
 
Even if the big companies went an stopped production there are smaller companies like Foma and Adox who I'm sure would carry on. Plus look at the impossible project, film is much more popular than Polaroid so I'm sure something like that would start up.
 
Think it is kodachrome 64. Never used it. Someone must be able to make a new batch of chemicals...

I shall keep an eye out for neopan in bargain bins ;)
 
No one to my knowledge has ever made the chemicals for the K-14M process except Kodak's chemical division. The actual first step (after the rem-jet backing removal bath), the B&W developer is just Ilford PQ developer, but the colour layer developers and the bleach are unique. Sure the actual chemical make-up is listed on the K-14M patent, but no one would be able to manufacture them without the permission of Kodak and seeing how Kodak makes most of its money these days on patent litigation over the digital technologies it developed, I would not like to be the chemical company that tries.

Plus the K-14M process is notoriously difficult as it requires an on site analytical chemistry lab and extremely precise temperature control, even more than with E-6 or C-41. It has about 15 steps to it and requires a special processor, most of which no longer exist. Its not the sort of thing that you would be able to do at home.

There are some groups trying to get together a K-14M line so keep the film in the freezer and in a few years it may be possible to process it.
 
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srichards said:
Think it is kodachrome 64. Never used it. Someone must be able to make a new batch of chemicals...
Click to expand...

It uses a notoriously difficult process, K-14 I think. It involves a serious amount of chemical work and although I believe there is a group out there trying to revive it, the process is the work of years of Kodak's R&D team in their heyday and with the resources that Kodak once had - i.e. it's going to be tricky at best!

C-41 and even E-6 are incredibly simple by comparison, the steps are listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-14_process

EDIT: Samuel got there first, even managed to write 'notoriously difficult' before I did :(
 
That process looks a right PITA! I don't think I'll be getting out the chemistry set...
 
film had better outlast my CLA'd LX or there'll be hell to pay! :LOL:
 
Black and White film? For ever. Colour? Either as long as it continues to be made on the back of the movie industry or as long as there is a market for it (here's hoping that more digital photographers realize that it isn't a done deal ;) ).
 
There are a few problems I see which will combine to make film use harder and less popular:

1. the cameras are getting older and almost nobody is making new ones. There may be plenty around on the 2nd hand market for a while but their supply isn't likely to improve much, and certainly not in the long term. The number of people skilled in fixing them will dwindle too.

2. film availability, but as has been said, it's likely that there will be enough niche operators around to keep that going - I don't think that will be a deciding factor, but it won't be available in the supermarket and will stop casual users.

3. processing labs: again they will dwindle as it becomes harder to justify commercially but it will take a LONG time before there's nowhere out there to get films developed. And even then, enthusiasts will be able to do it themselves. It will stop a lot of us who can't be bothered though.

The internet is a great preserver of niches - and film photography will benefit from it too: you can buy everything you need for film photography without getting up from your PC, and can find plenty of enthusiasts to discuss it with too!

Overall, I can't see it stopping anytime in the next 20 years, though it is likely that before that most small and medium format film cameras will lose most of any advantage they still have over digital. Personally, I still love the look of film and even if digital can match that some day I'm not sure I like the idea of a format that is just trying to replicate something which already exists. I also love film cameras and get little joy out of using dSLRs.

Beyond 2030, who knows, but people will still love and cherish their Leicas, Nikons, Hasselblads, Canons (and Holgas for that matter), and there will be enough wanting to still use them to keep a trickle of availability going I'm sure. We will see...
 
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